Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)

[OlJarhead]

And yes, 2-3 ozs of JD is quite perfect!  Specially at the cabin after a long day of working or playing

In fact it's also perfect after a long day at work....hmmm.....since I have the day off it might also be good after a long day off!  

[MountainDon]

I forgot you had a Ford; was really puzzling over the electric 4wd      

Too bad about the batteries / charge controller. That's not good for the batteries at all. Glad you enjoyed your time though.

[OlJarhead]

I forgot you had a Ford; was really puzzling over the electric 4wd      

Too bad about the batteries / charge controller. That's not good for the batteries at all. Glad you enjoyed your time though.

Yup, new 4x4 truck with new crappy switch...hmmm...how to fix that??

Am a little worried about the batteries as I suspect life has been shortened   But will prevail.  I plan to put the C40 back on the system and send the Morningstar in to have it fixed or replaced -- assuming I can get in contact with them which is a challenge.

I intend to buy an Outback as soon as I can.  I'm tired of the crappiest customer service I have ever experienced and will never buy another of Morningstar's products again!

[MountainDon]

Yup, new 4x4 truck with new crappy switch...hmmm...how to fix that??

Many years ago I had a vehicle with an electrically actuated overdrive, via a big solenoid. It didn't like the cold weather.    I have no idea how the late model electric 4wd selectors work so I just threw that into the mix for something to say. 

[OlJarhead]

Almost done

[JavaMan]

Oh, THAT special time... yeah, isn't it "special".  Seems it shows up on every occasion we've managed to get shed of the kids for a few days.  Those times then evolve (?) into times where I get honey-do's done.

Cabin looks great, OJH ... can't wait to get up to mine this spring (and I WILL be up there this year).  I wasn't able to get up last year for a variety of reasons, but this year am planning on an average of every third weekend at least, with a few longer weekends thrown in for good measure. I want it done before hunting season rolls around.  The boy and I are going bow hunting this year.  Should be lots of fun.

My F150 has the 4WD shifter on the floor with high, low, etc... So far I've never had any troubles with it - the Explorer I had previously would do what your F150 is doing.  Reading the ford forums it seems that a loose wire to the transfer case (If I remember correctly) can cause this.  Make sure all the connections are good and tight.  And yes, the engineer that designed it should have to figure out how they're going to get up and down a mountain in 12 degree weather when it's acting up.

Hope you're feeling better!

[OlJarhead]

The plans for my root cellar might be coming together!

After a long talk with my neighbor about how to build it and discussions with others online I think I have the answer that will serve my purpose.


The concept is to build the foundation and slab with concrete, then build Cinder Block walls and fill them with rebar and concrete and then use 10" diameter logs for roof 'beams' and affix them to the cinder/concrete walls with rebar pins and finally concrete around them (not sure if that will work but still working out details).  Then nail down a 2x6 roof on top of the log beams and cover with 60 mil plastic (after putting in vents).

Not sure of the spacing on the logs yet but I'm thinking I might be able to get away with 16-20" on center if not 24" on center if I use all 10" logs (which I will mill to exactly 10" end to end with the sawmill before dropping them on the walls (otherwise it might not work out so well).

Once covered and burried I'll build a garden shed on top of the entrance to keep out the snow and rain and give me a place to store the orchard implements etc

It will take a ton of blocks mind you and I have to look at that cost vs paying someone to form it up but I think this will work and will probably be cheaper then paying for someone to pour it all in concrete.

Thoughts?

[OlJarhead]

Rough calculations tells me I'll need about 800 cinder blocks (that will include the stairs out).

[Tickhill]

OJ, good idea. My basement walls consist of cinder blocks with rebar from footing all the way up the blocks every 4 ft., and they are filled with concrete. Don't forget to stub up conduit from the cabin to the cellar for lights/power, also a water line might be nice.

[Squirl]

If I had to do it over again, I probably would have formed it and poured concrete.  I did 650 blocks.  The books I read on laying block said a good professional mason can lay 200 blocks a day and a well practiced amateur can lay 100 blocks a day.  My best was 75 blocks a day towards the end of the job.  The months I spent weekends doing it could have been saved by a few hundred extra dollars with forms.  The concrete itself would have cost around the same as the block and mortar without concrete and rebar fill.  I spent more in gas driving on weekends than the forms would have cost, and I would have saved months of time.

[Bob S.]

Would it be practical to not use earth between the cellar and the shed? Just super insulation. Like 3' or so of blown in cellulose. Might work as well and be cheaper to build.

[JavaMan]

Rough calculations tells me I'll need about 800 cinder blocks (that will include the stairs out).

That's a technique called "Dry Stack" and I've looked at it for under the actual log cabin I will build in the next couple years, once the starter shed/cabin is done.

Different from the "standard" method of mortar between the blocks it should stack up fairly fast.  The biggest concern that I've read about is getting concrete all the way down the voids that you pour it into.

I figure to do about 3 courses at a time, pour, and then with rebar sticking out of the top into the next course, stack another three courses.

I think that's a great alternative to a poured basement or cellar, and more cost efficient than insulated concrete forms (ICFs)

[JavaMan]

If I had to do it over again, I probably would have formed it and poured concrete.  I did 650 blocks.  The books I read on laying block said a good professional mason can lay 200 blocks a day and a well practiced amateur can lay 100 blocks a day.  My best was 75 blocks a day towards the end of the job.  The months I spent weekends doing it could have been saved by a few hundred extra dollars with forms.  The concrete itself would have cost around the same as the block and mortar without concrete and rebar fill.  I spent more in gas driving on weekends than the forms would have cost, and I would have saved months of time.

Did you lay it up in the traditional manner with mortar and buttering each block? I don't think that's what OJH is thinking about - in a dry stack, you stack them without the mortar, put rebar down them, and pour into the voids in the block.  Usually, for "living spaces" and cisterns, they put some thin covering on the outside after it's finished to make it waterproof or seal it up.

[JavaMan]

OJ, good idea. My basement walls consist of cinder blocks with rebar from footing all the way up the blocks every 4 ft., and they are filled with concrete. Don't forget to stub up conduit from the cabin to the cellar for lights/power, also a water line might be nice.

Thanks for the reminder Tick ... I had been thinking about how to do this,but the voids in the blocks seem to be quite handy for running conduit and piping.  Gonna have to look into that.

[OlJarhead]

Thanks Javaman!

My neighbor did it this way I beleive.  He mentioned going up only so high and then pouring concrete in and then going higher again....but I never inquired too much about it at the time.

Now I'm thinking yes!  ANd with the 60 mill plastic outside it will/should be waterproof.

Tickhill -- the whole structure is already going to be completely below ground level (10 feet down at the floor) on a hill so by the time it gets to the sheds footings it will be pretty close to the surface (stairwell).  My plan is to possibly use the last wall of the root cellar as the base of the sheds footing

[OlJarhead]

http://www.drystacked.com/sequence.html

[JavaMan]

http://www.drystacked.com/sequence.html

Yup! I was going to go looking for that one and post it here. 

[Squirl]

I did the traditional mortar method.  Dry stack is great and was my original plan. You need to excavate enough to cover both sides of the wall with SBC for it to work.  Because I'm not that skinny this would have required extra excavation and backfill, which would have been an extra $600 of excavator time.  If you already have this done, it would probably be better than mortar.  I have read dry stacked is faster, but it costs a few hundred more in materials too.  SBC is around $15 a bag vs mortar at $4.  You also still need to mortar the first and last row of block with a drystack wall too. 

Surface bonding cement is also a water barrier, which would be good for a root cellar. In addition it has greater shear strength which would be good too.

[OlJarhead]

I did the traditional mortar method.  Dry stack is great and was my original plan. You need to excavate enough to cover both sides of the wall with SBC for it to work.  Because I'm not that skinny this would have required extra excavation and backfill, which would have been an extra $600 of excavator time.  If you already have this done, it would probably be better than mortar.  I have read dry stacked is faster, but it costs a few hundred more in materials too.  SBC is around $15 a bag vs mortar at $4.  You also still need to mortar the first and last row of block with a drystack wall too. 

Surface bonding cement is also a water barrier, which would be good for a root cellar. In addition it has greater shear strength which would be good too.

Luckily for me my excavator is a friend   I asked him if he'd come out and dig the walls out a couple feet wider for applying the SBC and dig me some footings so I don't lose height and he's ready whenever I am.  Will cost me $250 for the excavator and another $200 for gas (for him) but I'll get a ton more done around there in the end so the money will be well spent

I'll have him dig some trenches for the orchard and cabin water and maybe a hole for the pressure tank etc etc

Otherwise I'm liking this idea a lot.

[JavaMan]

Hey, OJH!  Does your excavator friend do driveways, also?

I might have a project for him - especially if he's headed your way up 97 through Okanogan.  It wouldn't be much out of his way, perhaps.

If he's up for it, maybe we can co-ordinate a weekend once the snow is out.

[OlJarhead]

Hey, OJH!  Does your excavator friend do driveways, also?

I might have a project for him - especially if he's headed your way up 97 through Okanogan.  It wouldn't be much out of his way, perhaps.

If he's up for it, maybe we can co-ordinate a weekend once the snow is out.

He would.

We rent the excavator in Tonasket and he hauls it up to my place.  I pay for the gas and rental etc and give him a stipend for his efforts

But if done right, and only 8 hours are used on the machine then they will only charge for one day even if you have it all weekend.  So we pick it up Friday on the way there and use it Saturday all day then bring it back Monday morning -- gives us the option to use it for a 2nd day if needed.

The last time we ran something like 10 hrs but they charged only 8 hrs worth as per their statement to me when I picked it up.

Anyway, Tom's a great operator and has been doing it for nearly 20 years....good guy too.

[JavaMan]

Well, Tonasket is a bit out of the way to be picking up here and then returning back up there.  I fear it would be a bit more time and money - probably 1.5 hours each way (minimum) plus time on site.  So, I think I'm going to try to tap a guy from church here that apparently is a wizard with equipment and rent an excavator out of Okanogan from the local place there.

Of course, if he'd want to meet me there some weekend that might work, too.  I'm just in the early planning stages on this driveway.  Gotta go to the top of the hill with it and then dig a basement/foundation.

[OlJarhead]

Well, Tonasket is a bit out of the way to be picking up here and then returning back up there.  I fear it would be a bit more time and money - probably 1.5 hours each way (minimum) plus time on site.  So, I think I'm going to try to tap a guy from church here that apparently is a wizard with equipment and rent an excavator out of Okanogan from the local place there.

Of course, if he'd want to meet me there some weekend that might work, too.  I'm just in the early planning stages on this driveway.  Gotta go to the top of the hill with it and then dig a basement/foundation.

Getting the guy from Church would be great if you could.  That way you ride out together, haul the hoe and return etc....but you need a GOOD tuck.  Tom's Dodge 2500 4x4 hauled that Bobcat Trackhoe very WELL!

[JavaMan]

Well, we wouldn't ride out together, most likely.  He's got a 3/4 ton Chevy (being a Ford man myself, I can't understand it, but, there's no accounting for taste...) and one of those gigantic dump trucks - which he uses to tow his matching backhoe when needed.  So I'm sure he'd be able to tow it.  I'm not sure my F150 would pull it much beyond the end of the county road (if that far)

I'd ask him to bring his own backhoe, but I fear the fuel for that trip would break the bank

[Buckeye]

Are you pretty happy with the woodmizer? I was going to buy a kit and finish my own, but that LT-10 looks like about the best buy around. Anything you don't like about it?

Thanks-
Buckeye