too many children rant

[tanya]

Well are you saying people shouldn't have kids unless someone can pay to feed, house, clothe, pay for health care, AND stay home with them AND educate them?   I don't necessarily think that is a bad option.  BUT perhapes we could have govt. sponsored sterilization for all, and mandate it for the poor.  Enough beating around the bush.

[MountainDon]

I do agree that there are too many government employees and they do too little to earn the money they are paid. NM has a higher per capita state employee rate compared to the national average and we pay them more than average as well, when everything is taken into account. Which is something when the rest of the citizens struggle along on less than average.

Unfortunately with layoffs increasing the numbers of unemployed the state une,plyment offices are hiring more people to handle the volume.

So let this be the "too many children AND too many government employees" rant.

[glenn kangiser]

Well are you saying people shouldn't have kids unless someone can pay to feed, house, clothe, pay for health care, AND stay home with them AND educate them?   I don't necessarily think that is a bad option.  BUT perhapes we could have govt. sponsored sterilization for all, and mandate it for the poor.  Enough beating around the bush.

That is a government sponsored plan but in general it is hidden in other agendas and pushed more in poor foreign countries, Tanya.  

Obama just OK'd sending money to other countries - primarily black for just such type programs - not necessarily sterilization, but abortion.

I don't know the details - just skimmed over it shortly after his inauguration.

[tanya]

OH OK, now just to be fair I have worked with some lovely, decent and hard working govt. people.  BUT most of them are lazy arrogant, even evil, despicable characters worse than any low life I have ever met.  I bet they were raised by parents who could afford to feed them or they would have died by now.  To bad.

[glenn kangiser]

And I also have worked with some that were good --

My wife, son and brother, my mom, and my dad was before he retired....all government workers... is that too many?

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well are you saying people shouldn't have kids unless someone can pay to feed, house, clothe, pay for health care, AND stay home with them AND educate them?

I think that is the way God intended. That's how Jesus was brought up.. Unfortunately, this is often not possible in today's society. Should people have kids if they are going to have to use public school? Of course. That doesn't make it a good option that that you should be comfortable using.. Should you have kids if you are going to remain single, use all kinds of government welfare and stick them into society to be brainwashed into good little rebellious sheeple? I think you should think twice...

[tanya]

I also think that if we pay for abortions, and I think we should, no one should be forced to take on a child they cannot.  BUT if we are going to PAY FOR IT then we should also pay right then and there for sterilization, at the very least voluntary sterilization.  Especially for deadbeat dads.

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well, perhaps people ought to practice a little more self-control and use their sexuality responsibly like God intended, then we wouldn't have to go meddling in areas we are not meant to go.

[MountainDon]

Well are you saying people shouldn't have kids unless someone can pay to feed, house, clothe, pay for health care, AND stay home with them AND educate them?   I don't necessarily think that is a bad option.  BUT perhaps we could have govt. sponsored sterilization for all, and mandate it for the poor.  Enough beating around the bush.

Not "someone"; the parents!!

I do say that people should not have children unless they themselves can pay to feed, house, clothe them and look after their basic needs. That includes waiting until they are mature enough to begin that family; for some that could be fairly young, others will never be mature enough to raise a family. Of course sometimes crap happens and one or the other parent end up as single parents. Sometimes that occurs as a result of a personal disaster, sometimes it occurs because of immaturity in one or both of the parents.

[glenn kangiser]

Single mother Suleman, who already had six children by IVF, used a fertility doctor to give birth to her babies.

The new pictures surfaced on the day it emerged she had fled her house in Whittier, California, to go into hiding with her older children after receiving death threats.

She has even taken on the services of a security firm to ensure the safety of her family.

Earlier this week, it was revealed that Miss Suleman has three disabled children

Despite previously insisting that she will not be claiming benefits, her publicist confirmed that she already receives food stamps and child disability payments to help feed and care for her six other children.

But he would not disclose the nature of the disabilities, or the type or sum of the payments.

The news came as it was revealed that all of Suleman's children were conceived with help from the same fertility doctor - Dr Michael Kamrava.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1142566/The-mother-baby-bumps-Octuplets-mum-bares-ENORMOUS-stomach-just-days-giving-birth.html

[MountainDon]

ooops I forgot to finish my thought..... when crap happens, then there should be a social safety blanket. But only then.

[tanya]

 "think that is the way God intended. That's how Jesus was brought up.. Unfortunately, this is often not possible in today's society. Should people have kids if they are going to have to use public school? Of course. That doesn't make it a good option that that you should be comfortable using.. Should you have kids if you are going to remain single, use all kinds of government welfare and stick them into society to be brainwashed into good little rebellious sheeple? I think you should think twice..."

I think that a lot can go wrong when you have a family.  One of my best friends had four children, when her husband fell off a roof.  He is brain damamged and she was left to raise them all alone, with his brain damaged input adding to the pleasure.  I don't even think there should be welfare, there should be a federal system that pays a stipend to everyone who isn't living at or above poverty level.  Health care coverage should be totally financed, after all it is the govt. that let that mess go where it is.  No one in their right mind would think that system can help.  And it has been my experience that single parents are doing a better job than the married ones a lot of times, both single moms and dads.  That whole married thing just adds a lot of stress and tension and a lot more accomodations too.  As faar as the presumption that god wants us to raise our children without ever leaving them to another to teach or care for is not one I can buy into. God knows it all, planned ALL of this and it is for our own good like it or not!!!

[MountainDon]

 ...I don't even think there should be welfare, there should be a federal system that pays a stipend to everyone who isn't living at or above poverty level...

And where does that money come from? 

[Ernest T. Bass]

God knows it all, planned ALL of this and it is for our own good like it or not!!!

For our own good, yes. Planned it, no.

[tanya]

I don't recall anything in the bible about responsible sexuality.  That is a good one

I see no reason why that woman and her children shouldn't be cared for.  I think we are paying a lot more to a lot less worthy causes.  And I think it reflects very badly on this country when we bicker and fight over who is going to take care of the children.  There should be no question that when a child is in need someone will step up, ever and since we are a nation dependant on the govt. for these things then it is natural to assume they should pay.  But if we had universal health coverage, the costs would be shared accross the nation and not only would the mom be blessed but so would we all.  It is jsut so weird how the welfare issue is such a hot button issue when so much more money is going to the states mis administering the funding.  A LOT more money will go into state workers pockets THIS YEAR ALONE than will ever ever go to take care of those children. It's a smokescreen issue when the real one should be govt. acountability.

[tanya]

We ALL pay taxes, even when they are not income taxes.  I know the big families I know are paying enough just in taxes on beer cigs and gas to take care of the rest who are not old enough to drive, smoke or drink yet.  As for the stipend of course that would come from taxes but the system would be automated and far cheaper to administer.  So instead of 2 to 3 percent going to the people who need it 70-80 percent would be and the state workers could then hurry up and drop dead. 

[Ernest T. Bass]

As far as the "married thing" just adding a bunch of stress, I'd say you're doing something wrong... A holy, trustful marriage is the anchor that holds a family together. God designed it that way. With the maturity levels out there nowadays, a good working marriage is a hard find, but it is not meant to be that way. Responsible, selfless parents are the root of a great family. I'm not saying you can't raise great kids with only one parent, but the odds of finding a great single parent who couldn't get along with his/her spouse are unlikely. Of course, there are always exceptions. I'm speaking about the vast majority of dysfunctional families out there..   Death of a spouse is another story..

[MountainDon]

If there was universal health care as, Nadya Suleman would never have had 8 embryos implanted. If there was universal health care it is a near absolute certainty she would not have been eligible for any IVF with 6 kids already having been born to her.

[tanya]

Well maybe she could have gone to another country for the IVF.  As far as people not being in healthy relationships because they are doing something wrong well DUH!  but that IS life.  ANd I think the bible is against masterbating too, which would be responsibly handling sexuality, but...  So there isn't much to be done. 

[MountainDon]

As far as the "married thing" just adding a bunch of stress, I'd say you're doing something wrong...

I agree wholeheartedly. Marriage is not a guarantee for familial bliss, for certain. However, being a single parent is not all that easy either, from what I have seen. If you look at marriage as a source of stress and misery, there is something basically wrong with the situation. And I feel sorry for the children caught in between the parental relationship.

- married 32 years and one year in sin before that. Same woman.  

[MountainDon]

Well maybe she could have gone to another country for the IVF.

This is getting dumb.

[Ernest T. Bass]

I don't recall anything in the bible about responsible sexuality.  That is a good one

Let the husband fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again lest Satan tempt you because of your lack of self-control. (1 Corinthians 7:3-5)

   Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. (Matthew 19:8 )

In this passage and elsewhere, Jesus indicated that those who divorced and married another person were committing adultery.

Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)

[tanya]

Well I am pretty sure jesus brought a whore to the ressurection.  Now you see what happens the bible says to much.  Mary Magdeline, so god does judge but my guess is those who bicker and fight over feeding hungry, ill, HELPLESS, children, and who have the audacity to preach the lords will, baiting with oppressive views, and inuendo  will get the wrath.  Because that is sacreligious.

[Ernest T. Bass]

If Mary Magdeline repented from her past sins and believed in God's mercy of course she would be saved. Are you saying Jesus had no problem with her prostitution?

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well I am pretty sure jesus brought a whore to the ressurection.  Now you see what happens the bible says to much.  Mary Magdeline, so god does judge but my guess is those who bicker and fight over feeding hungry, ill, HELPLESS, children, and who have the audacity to preach the lords will, baiting with oppressive views, and inuendo  will get the wrath.  Because that is sacreligious.

Nobody's saying children should not be fed! Just that parents need to be more responsible and think ahead a little bit.