? on front porch posts

[jackel440]

I am looking for information and anyone with experiance with using log timbers for porch posts?I am wanting to place some 5 to 6" or so in Diameter tree logs for my posts of my front porch.
I am in central Indiana so I need something local to my area.
1.what kind of tree should i look for?
2.should it be treated with something to prevent rot or water damage?

I am just not wanting to use pressure treated 4x4 to frame up my porch.Looking for ideas on what I could use and should do.
Thanks guys

[Redoverfarm]

Do a search on this forum for "porch post" there are several listed.  I used 8-10" locust on mine. Used a rubber mat under the post and lagged them to the floor joist and blocking on the bottom.  The top I "let in" my ledger for the rafters.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3613.msg44370#msg44370

[Squirl]

Above grade or below grade? Above the deck or beneath the deck?

[jackel440]

Do a search on this forum for "porch post" there are several listed.  I used 8-10" locust on mine. Used a rubber mat under the post and lagged them to the floor joist and blocking on the bottom.  The top I "let in" my ledger for the rafters.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3613.msg44370#msg44370

that is pretty much what I want to do.that is a very nice e looking porch.
I will try to do a search again.I was having no luck while on my phone.might have to do it when i get home tonight.

[jackel440]

Above grade or below grade? Above the deck or beneath the deck?

the posts will be above grade resting on top of the deck.I will make plates to tie them to the deck so that i can disassemble it in the future in case I plan to move my mini cabin.

[Redoverfarm]

I am looking for information and anyone with experiance with using log timbers for porch posts?I am wanting to place some 5 to 6" or so in Diameter tree logs for my posts of my front porch.
I am in central Indiana so I need something local to my area.
1.what kind of tree should i look for?
2.should it be treated with something to prevent rot or water damage?

I am just not wanting to use pressure treated 4x4 to frame up my porch.Looking for ideas on what I could use and should do.
Thanks guys

My post were locust which in themselves are not prone to insect damage.  In addition I used a oil based stain to further protect them and tone them down to match the rest of the cabin.  The 3/8-1/2" rubber mat was trimmed to the diameter of the post and seperates the post from the deck to prevent rot.   I am not sure what material (species) you have available .  Depending on the size of your porch would probably dictate the species needed or available and blend that with what is available.

[jackel440]

I admit I failed miserably at tree identification.I just cut it and throw them in my boiler
I have a bunch of logs from a woods I helped my nieghbor clear which we buck and split for burning in my gasification boiler I built.I believe there are some oak and perhaps some walnut and ash.
I know we have an ash borer epidemic in Indiana and they are all dieing.I will have to get up to my pile and take some pics of what I have.
I plant to have an 8' wide maybe 20' long porch with metal roofing.Lightly framed to keep the wieght down,and it will probably be designed for removal in sections in case of a future move.

[Redoverfarm]

I admit I failed miserably at tree identification.I just cut it and throw them in my boiler
I have a bunch of logs from a woods I helped my nieghbor clear which we buck and split for burning in my gasification boiler I built.I believe there are some oak and perhaps some walnut and ash.
I know we have an ash borer epidemic in Indiana and they are all dieing.I will have to get up to my pile and take some pics of what I have.
I plant to have an 8' wide maybe 20' long porch with metal roofing.Lightly framed to keep the wieght down,and it will probably be designed for removal in sections in case of a future move.

Ash will probably work OK for that demension but maybe someone here will differ/agree.  You might want to treat the post prior to installing to rid of any larve or insects.   It will really be difficult to pre-fab for disasbeling later and still achieve the unity that gives it strength.  Probably the best approach would be to use as many lag/carriage bolts where possible and if/when you take it apart label all components.  Yes we have the ash borer's as well along with the gypsy moths.

[jackel440]

I have been thinking of cutting the top of the posts to use conventional framing lumber for the roof.I have been kicking the idea of using some plates steel and lag bolts or carriage bolts.Black out all the hardware for an old timber frame look just for something different.

[Don_P]

Decay resistant species that might be in that area; That walnut is good rot resistant wood, (the ash is powderpost beetle candy, a nice interior wood). Eastern redcedar, white oak, sassafras, black locust, honeylocust, osage orange
.. bear in mind the sapwood of no species is decay resistant. I borate them and apply a water repellant coating.

[jackel440]

Decay resistant species that might be in that area; That walnut is good rot resistant wood, (the ash is powderpost beetle candy, a nice interior wood). Eastern redcedar, white oak, sassafras, black locust, honeylocust, osage orange
.. bear in mind the sapwood of no species is decay resistant. I borate them and apply a water repellant coating.

I will have to get up and check out what logs I have tonight.I have a viewing to go to for my uncle who passed sunday.Hopefully I will get back in time before dark to get some pics.
MY question is ,what is this borate you do to them?Is it a chemical thats applied to the end of the logs?
I also wanted to know what is the best way to remove the bark from the log?,or do I even want to remove it?
I can get water repellant to apply to the logs without a problem.I'm sure there is products out there that probably are better than thompsons ?

[Don_P]

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.
The borate is available as Bora-care, Timbor, Solubor, Beau-ron, Shell-guard, and probably others. It is a insect and fungi preventative that has low toxicity to mammals. I soak wood in it, the more the better you're trying to get it to soak in as deep as possible, dry, buff the salt like residue off and apply something to repel water. It leaches out when the wood is rewetted so try to keep the surface beading water.

Spring is the best time to fell if you want easy peeling. As the seasonal growth spurt begins the bark "slips" it is actually the cambium cells freshly dividing and unreinforced for a few months. I've actually gotten the bark off a large poplar log in one sheet during the spring. Yes do remove the bark, the vast majority of the food and thus the appeal to bugs is that sweet cambium inner bark layer. Drawknife, slick, spud, tree spade, digging bar, flat crowbar... use whatever works to debark.

[Redoverfarm]

Depending on the size I have found that a draw knife works the best for me on removing the bark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRCTXrz1sDw&feature=channel

[jackel440]

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.
The borate is available as Bora-care, Timbor, Solubor, Beau-ron, Shell-guard, and probably others. It is a insect and fungi preventative that has low toxicity to mammals. I soak wood in it, the more the better you're trying to get it to soak in as deep as possible, dry, buff the salt like residue off and apply something to repel water. It leaches out when the wood is rewetted so try to keep the surface beading water.

Spring is the best time to fell if you want easy peeling. As the seasonal growth spurt begins the bark "slips" it is actually the cambium cells freshly dividing and unreinforced for a few months. I've actually gotten the bark off a large poplar log in one sheet during the spring. Yes do remove the bark, the vast majority of the food and thus the appeal to bugs is that sweet cambium inner bark layer. Drawknife, slick, spud, tree spade, digging bar, flat crowbar... use whatever works to debark.

Thanks for the condolences.
Now how do you soak a long log your going to use for a post and how long?I might have an old horse tank thats long but leaks.
We didn't get home in time to get over to the log pile to check it out.Hopefully tomorrow I can check to see what I have.
I will need to either buy me a draw knife or make me one.
I know my logs are 2yrs old in the stack.So not real sure how easy the bark will come off.I imagine it should seperate fairly easy.

[jackel440]

Depending on the size I have found that a draw knife works the best for me on removing the bark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRCTXrz1sDw&feature=channel

Great video
I will definatly be picking me up a draw knife or making one.Then I will have to goto town on some logs when I get them picked out.

[Redoverfarm]

Draw knives are not really something you can make unless you are a blacksmith.  They are readily available at most hardware stores. It is really hard to find quality knives now days but unless you are going to make a living doing this then a cheaper on will work.  Also pick you up a wet stone as you will probably have to touch the edge up as you go.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=draw+knife

While you are there pick up an extra First Aid kit or be extra carefull sharpening the blade.  Looks good in this picture as it had several days to heal up.



As far as the horse tank I doubt that you will have the length.  But if you do you can line it with black plastic to enable it to hold water.

[jackel440]

I was looking on ebay and need to figure out what brand I should look at for as an antique knife.I know and old knife should be a quality piece.
I had considered making a knife blade of my own.Only reason is I have a few fellow tradesman who have made knives.But I do not have the time to mess with that so I will be buying something i imagine
I have plenty of wet stones here so thats not a problem.
I really think I want to find a nice quality used antique knife to use.Then I will always have it.

[Don_P]

Ouch! That requires top shelf antiseptic.
I sharpen mine cradled sort of like a fiddle with the edge away, bevel up, and use a rectangular stone in the other hand as the bow, keeping my fingers up the sides. Trip with the stone and it'll make the same cut but that seems to give me a nice even stroke over the whole edge.

I've heard a leaf spring makes a good froe or drawknife. Unfortunately I have half a one on hand 

Took the camera to work today. For these sawn posts I made a box with board sides and a plywood bottom. Subfloor glue and loads of screws then caulked the seams inside. I started by spraying them fresh off the sawmill with a pump up sprayer and stacking the timbers for a year. We planed the rough timbers and probably that initial coat off when we made the post assemblies. We would surface timbers, rough in the joinery and then dip them. I only put in enough mix at any given time to just more than half cover the timbers and then rolled them over. Spraying or brushing works, dipping works better and soaking is dandy. There is no "too long". The lucky timbers here sat in the tank overnight, the shortest sides were probably a half hour. We let them dry a day or two and then final fit and finish.

[Redoverfarm]

Yep Don that was purely an accident.  I was resting one end of the knife on a timber and halfway through the stroke with the stone it lost it's footing and oh well there you go.   I don't mind getting hurt ( well I can really do without it) but it is the down time or the handicap afterwards that hard to deal with.  Seems like it always happens at the worst time.   

I usually try to find mine at farm or estate auctions.  The steel is so much better on the older ones and they hold an edge better.  The problem is that they are half worn out when you get them.  This one I guess you can say is worn out.

[jackel440]

Yep Don that was purely an accident.  I was resting one end of the knife on a timber and halfway through the stroke with the stone it lost it's footing and oh well there you go.   I don't mind getting hurt ( well I can really do without it) but it is the down time or the handicap afterwards that hard to deal with.  Seems like it always happens at the worst time.   

I usually try to find mine at farm or estate auctions.  The steel is so much better on the older ones and they hold an edge better.  The problem is that they are half worn out when you get them.  This one I guess you can say is worn out.

WOW that one was worn out!
I walked up to the log piles but I forgot my camera.I think I have several candidates.
I need to pick up a knife and make a plan to get the posts made.

[jackel440]

I bought me an Draw knife and it is on its way.I got an old Greenlee with adjustable handles.When it arrives I will post a pic of it for you guys.
I will be working on the posts some time,but it wont be soon.I am in the process of building my cabin right now.So my time and resource are going there till its all up and closed in.

[jackel440]

Here is the Greenlee adjustable handle draw knife I got off ebag.
She needed cleaned up and then have the blade touched up.So I got out the oil and some emery cloth and fine steel wool then went to town cleaning her up.Try her out last night and she worked very well.Now just have to decide on which logs to use and start cleaning them up.
cleaned up one handle

cleaned up

[Redoverfarm]

   Looks like there is enough cutting edge to out live your lifetime.  Remember me in your will.

[jackel440]

  Looks like there is enough cutting edge to out live your lifetime.  Remember me in your will.

There seems to be lots of life left in it.I tried her out the other night and I have to sa this things is awesome.I had a big grin on m face working on an old chunk of wood laying out back.
I kept thinking of the pic of your thumb the whole time i was cleaning it up and then sharpening the blade
Oh and ill have to make special mention of ya when i kick the bucket for it LOL!