I found this walking my land..is it an old well?

[Redoverfarm]

   I think I will stick to my brazing rods.

[Don_P]

It was always my (apparently mistaken) impression that springs bubbled out of the ground mostly due to pressure from below and that if one dug a hole and found water, that was a shallow well caused more by seepage of the water table than anything else. If one goes downgrade and digs, and the hole subsequently filled up with water, this would be a spring? I'm a bit cloudy on how springs and shallow wells differ.

As mine seems to be a springbox, can I assume this water is drinkable? Must it be filtered? Is there any way of having it tested to determine it's quality? 

There are all kinds of springs, we have several wet weather springs on our place... well this is Spring Valley. A spring is a flow coming from the ground, but the flow can be as light as a seep or can be quite bold. What you are describing sounds more like an artesian well but springs can boil to the surface. If a crack in the rock forms a "pipe" that contains the water until it has some head pressure it will exit the ground with some force. Big Spring in MO is basically a river boiling to the surface.

Your county health dept can usually take a water sample or point you in the right direction for a test. A spring rarely passes, but look at what the contaminants are. It's usually time to change the filter when it gets clogged by salamanders...which is a sign of good water 

[Redoverfarm]

It was always my (apparently mistaken) impression that springs bubbled out of the ground mostly due to pressure from below and that if one dug a hole and found water, that was a shallow well caused more by seepage of the water table than anything else. If one goes downgrade and digs, and the hole subsequently filled up with water, this would be a spring? I'm a bit cloudy on how springs and shallow wells differ.

As mine seems to be a springbox, can I assume this water is drinkable? Must it be filtered? Is there any way of having it tested to determine it's quality?  

There are all kinds of springs, we have several wet weather springs on our place... well this is Spring Valley. A spring is a flow coming from the ground, but the flow can be as light as a seep or can be quite bold. What you are describing sounds more like an artesian well but springs can boil to the surface. If a crack in the rock forms a "pipe" that contains the water until it has some head pressure it will exit the ground with some force. Big Spring in MO is basically a river boiling to the surface.

Your county health dept can usually take a water sample or point you in the right direction for a test. A spring rarely passes, but look at what the contaminants are. It's usually time to change the filter when it gets clogged by salamanders...which is a sign of good water  

We have several along the roads in the county.  There is always someone stopped by collecting gallons of spring water or just grabbing a drink. They can be as elaborate as a box with a pipe exit or just a pipe into the bank.  Always refreshing.

[AdironDoc]

Aside from witching, are there any indicators of a good spot to drill a well? I thought I saw a short essay on it years ago that had something to do with the type of trees, vegetation and countour of the land, but  I can't find it again for the life of me. Maybe the spring box is a good sign and I should keep a well nearby?

From my recently cleared cabin site my land slopes gently upwards on one side for 200 yards, then up a fairly sharp slope to a rideline. On the other side, it slopes downwards for 30 yards reaching a lower lying flat area maybe 15ft lower than my site, and although appearing to be mature hardwood and pine forest, is listed as flood zone. The creek wraps itself around my camp for 180 degrees. My guess is that shallower groundwater would tend to move from higher ground downwards towards the level of the creek but I'm ignorant on these things.

If the depth of the water table allowed it, it might be nice to drill upgrade and use a bit of gravity getting the water down to the cistern. I wonder if topography has any bearing on water table depth. Said my neighbor and builder, "we just start a-diggin in dem der acres a yours until we git lucky".

[Squirl]

Yes, topography usually has a factor on a water table.  They tend to be shallower in a valley than near a peak.  I wouldn't be surprised if you could dig a shallow well and get good water.  Remember, there is a saying that well drillers will drill as deep as your pockets will go.  Many will tell you that if you hit water 30 ft down it is no good.  Remember deeper wells cost more and pays for expensive equipment.  I wouldn't expect a lot of contamination in the Adirondacks. 

I don't know how to get well driller reports, but they are required for all wells in the state of NY.  In PA you can access them on line. That along with some geological surveys, looking over the land and talking to your neighbors you should get a pretty good idea.  Well driller reports aren't always accurate as to what they hit, but it is a start.  I was looking at NY regulations and noticed there is a health code law that says you need a well drillers permit to drill a well.  IIRC (not always) they are only issued to certified well drillers.  So I am scratching the idea of drilling my own.  Also some construction advice I was given was to drill the well last.  In the permitting stages in Otsego county it is not required till after the house is built, but before the Certificate of Occupancy.  The reason being that it is hardest to place a septic system, then a house.  A water table tends to form in a layer of water bearing rock.  This can be tapped at many places.

BTW, I am keeping my fingers crossed that the concrete you found isn't just an old foundation for an outhouse. You never know.

[Squirl]

I found a link to well information in the state of NY.  A little sparse though.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/cfmx/extapps/WaterWell/index.cfm?view=searchByCounty

[AdironDoc]

Remember, there is a saying that well drillers will drill as deep as your pockets will go. 

Hahaha... No I had never heard that one but it's a point "well" taken. ok..I couldn't resist 

BTW, I am keeping my fingers crossed that the concrete you found isn't just an old foundation for an outhouse. You never know.

Omg! I hope you're joking! Of course with a foundation like that, it would have been the best constructed outhouse I've ever laid eyes on.

Thanks for the link. I found many wells near my area in Herkimer County. 

[AdironDoc]

Just noted 4 wells within 1 mile of my camp, all had depths at or around 240ft. That's much deeper than I had anticipated. I'm assuming those must be "deep wells" due to their depth?

[glenn kangiser]

Probably.  If all are the same there may be a reason - possibly a reliable aquifer at that depth or low production and room for a reservoir so drilled that deep.

[frazoo]

When I first became licensed as a water plant operator (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing ), I would cringe everytime I would pass one of those roadside springs Redover mentioned.  I was attending a water treatment class at VA. Tech one year and the conversation turned to those springs. We were discussing the possible effects of ground water under the influence of surface water,GWUISW (yeah that's a real term for us) and the instructor that day just happened to be a health dept. official.  We asked him why they (the health dept.) didn't shut those things down.  He replied, "bad springs are found out real quick and the public shuts them down for us most times".  My wifes grandparents would drive 2 counties over to get a drink of water from a roadside spring at least once a month, said it couldn't be beat.  apologies for the hijack.

frazoo

[ben2go]

AdironDoc,did you ever clean out that box or find out what it is?Maybe ask some of the old locals.

[AdironDoc]

AdironDoc,did you ever clean out that box or find out what it is?Maybe ask some of the old locals.

I'll be heading up this weekend as the snows haven't come yet. When I get there, I'll try cleaning out the springbox. Later in the day, after all has settled, I'll fill a bottle with the water and look for some place to have it tested. If it checks out, I'd use it to fill a cistern, run it through a filtering system as one would with a shallow well, and viola!

Stay tuned..

[ben2go]

Good deal.I would consider using a UV light to kill any possible bacteria or germs.

[AdironDoc]

An update on the spring box. It's internal measurements are 6ft x 3ft. I got a shovel with me but it was a bit deep and the freezing water and light snow told me wait until spring. I poked a stick past some of the beams and roofing material that was in the box and reached at least 3ft below water. I'll climb in come spring and throw all the junk out.

Will pump out all the water and check the refill rate. Oddly there are two pipes into the box, both on the downsloping side. One is under a foot of water, the other a foot above the water (presumably overflow), but the top pipe is dripping water into the well as well. Not sure the mechanics of how they set these things up but I grabbed a bottle full of water from just below the surface. I'm waiting on a home test kit for metals, ph, hardness, and bacteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUa05H7sDx8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFDURBNRGKA

[glenn kangiser]

That is a good sized box.  Hopefully you have found your water source.  Being open like that it could come up bad on the coliform, but once properly , roofed and cleaned out, chlorinated with Clorox, chlorine tablets, peroxide or other,  it could be good.

[AdironDoc]

That is a good sized box.  Hopefully you have found your water source.  Being open like that it could come up bad on the coliform, but once properly , roofed and cleaned out, chlorinated with Clorox, chlorine tablets, peroxide or other,  it could be good.

Might be easiest for me to buy a small ready-shed at Lowes and drop it right over.

[glenn kangiser]

That could be a good possibility.

[AdironDoc]

Home water test kit performed on water collected last weekend. Copper, Iron, Nitrates and Chlorine were all zero. pH was 6.5 and total hardness 100. Lead and pesticides negative. Bacteria pending but neg. so far.

The kit noted that hardness should be 50 or less. My results weren't quite to the 120 panel, but much higher than the 50 panel. I'd say 100. Is it common that spring water be hard? Is it easily remedied?

I'm looking forward to the bacterial results. Will post when ready. Springbox seems to be shaping up.

[glenn kangiser]

No problem... hard water is good for you.  Probably better to have a bit of hardness as it would indicate deeper water rather than rainwter runoff.

Here we don't consider it a problem until TDS reaches around 400.  People pay good money for mineral water.

[MountainDon]

Adirondoc Bottled Water

[AdironDoc]

  Good one!

I'm surprised the testing didn't show any problems given that plenty asphalt shingles had fallen in. Bacteriology will be ready tomorrow. Despite the snow, very tiny insects could be observed on the water disturbing the surface. I'd be surprised if there wasn't anything in that water. Well.. I'd still be running it through a filter.

[glenn kangiser]

We drank water from my dads spring with a decomposing salamander stuck in the pipe... slow flow but nobody got sick..... humans are a pretty tough species sometimes.... A few weeks after the start of the problem we got it out and the flow was good as new...    

[MountainDon]

Adirondoc Springs Pure Mineral Water
From my home to yours, naturally.

[AdironDoc]

Adirondoc Springs Pure Mineral Water
From my home to yours, naturally.

I'd imagine you want royalties for that, Don? I'll give you your due.

AdironDoc's Marvelous Mystery-Box Water. Nobody knows whence it comes or where it goes, but it's "Brilliant... naturally!"

[AdironDoc]

   My bacteriology test was looking ok, but in the end, turned up positive. It doesn't tell me what bacteria are present. I wonder what it could be? The springbox is in the middle of nowhere and there's not another structure within 1000 yrds. Animal scat's about the only thing it could be, right? I can't imagine any other sources of bacteria. I hope bleaching the box and covering it will do the trick.