14x24 Little House in the sticks

Started by Pa_Kettle, June 21, 2006, 09:27:36 AM

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Pa_Kettle

#75
May 31, 2007, 09:04:02 PM
QuoteChris caught that one , you should have bolted on your ledger and "J" molded around it .
Hmm... good to know, thanks.  It's going to be quite awhile before the deck goes in, but I think I can work something out.  Is there anything that says we can't run the deck even with the bottom edge of the cabin?  We could run the ledger up against the bottom of the rim joist, no?

Ah, the joy of learning as you go...

PK

peg_688

#76
May 31, 2007, 11:08:39 PM
What would the rise be ?? More than 8" ?  By code max rise is 7 3/4" , min , 4".

You could built the deck under as you suggest , maybe attached to your beams / under framing for stability , and build a step / landing on that bigger lower deck. The landing should be a min of 36"x36" so it confortable / safe for your use.

glenn-k

#77
May 31, 2007, 11:19:24 PM
You could also make it independent of the house - throw a few extra supports and a beam next to the house -- a bit more materials -- but another way to do it.

peg_688

#78
May 31, 2007, 11:49:22 PM Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 11:49:58 PM by peg_688
Quote

You could also make it independent of the house - throw a few extra supports and a beam next to the house -- a bit more materials -- but another way to do it.



 He'd need some beams and post even if he attached it to the beams under the place , all he'd gain was some stablity from what little he'll be able to grab under there.

 

Looks close to 7 or 8" under that door .

BTW Glenn your post qualify's as one of those times it's ah trying times   ;D

glenn-k

#79
May 31, 2007, 11:56:42 PM
I realize that, PEG, but still had to do it.  I have stuff like that laying all over the place -- a couple hours -- a few well placed rocks -- some old creosoted bridge timbers and a couple boat docks thrown in with the Bobcat, I'd have a deck.

Sorry PEG -- I'll go back to my underground room now. :-?

Pa_Kettle

#80
June 01, 2007, 07:23:34 PM
QuoteWhat would the rise be ?? More than 8" ?  By code max rise is 7 3/4" , min , 4".  
If you are referring to the height of the step up from the deck, the sliding glass door is on top the 3/4" subfloor which is on top the 2x6 rim joist so, .75 + 5.5 + sliding glass door frame = ~ 7" I'm guessing.  Now that's to the bottom of the rim joist (top of the ledger).  So if I put 2x material on top of the deck joists (that are even with the top of the ledger) the distance from deck surface to sliding door frame is probably going to end up in the 5-6" range.  Of course if the rim joist is a 2x8... add two inches to that... ::)

PK

blackdog

#81
June 04, 2007, 11:10:22 AM
Very nice Pa.  I've been following your progress as I'm planning on building the 12' x 18' Little House as a sleeping cabin to supplement my 28' x 30' main structure.

The plan is to build a covered deck on the side wall and I like your idea of a step down onto the deck from the door.  This will give me a little more headroom under the porch roof.

Anyhow, how do you plan on attaching the ledger to the structure such that the top of the ledger is flush with the bottom of the rim joist?

I won't be able to use the beams as my deck will only be on a sidewall. However, I just had thought... could the beam be used as a ledger?  Attach the deck joists to the beam with some hangers, you could even use some hurricane ties where the deck joists and rim joist intersect.  I would have to use longer deck joists to account for the 2' cantilever, but in theory it should work.  Would deck joist bridging be required in the 2' cantilever section?  Could the beams and rim joist handle the extra load?

Pa_Kettle

#82
June 04, 2007, 10:33:30 PM
QuoteAnyhow, how do you plan on attaching the ledger to the structure such that the top of the ledger is flush with the bottom of the rim joist?

I won't be able to use the beams as my deck will only be on a sidewall. However, I just had thought... could the beam be used as a ledger?  Attach the deck joists to the beam with some hangers, you could even use some hurricane ties where the deck joists and rim joist intersect.  I would have to use longer deck joists to account for the 2' cantilever, but in theory it should work.  Would deck joist bridging be required in the 2' cantilever section?  Could the beams and rim joist handle the extra load?
Unfortunately, I don't have a detailed plan regarding my deck yet.

I think understand what your describing here.  Just run joists under the house to hangers on a main beam.  Seeing as I've never done anything like this before, all can offer is, "It seems reasonable to me".


Perhaps a resident pro can chime in on the wisdom of attaching a deck in such a way...

PK

peg_688

#83
June 04, 2007, 11:10:55 PM Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 12:06:55 AM by peg_688
Sounds do able to me 8-) , the load of the deck should not be enought to over stress the beams , nor the posts.

Code wise there could be some stupid  rule / code. ::)  

I think I would solid block it just outside the exterior wall , and I'd attach a 2x6 about every 4' to both the house joist and the deck joist with a couple of 1/2x 3" lag screws into each one , so I'd layout the deck joist right under the house joist .

  Where you'd be running parallel with the rim I'd again bolt on a 2x6 /or 8 to a (prefferablly) dbl. up exterior rim , then thru bolt or lag screw the deck ledgr to those sticking down 2by's.

Sort of like this stair jack is setup.






That ledger should be maybe one size larger then the joist you'd be hanging off it , then it could run right up to and touching the rim for a more "solid " feel and look  ;)


So now all you have to decide is which way run your decking , herringbone or a 90 deg. turn  :-/
     

blackdog

#84
June 05, 2007, 07:01:04 PM
Thanks PEG.  As always, you are a fountain of knowledge.

I like the 'stair jack' set up you describe not only for the for the gable end, but also for the side wall.  It will save me hanging the deck joists from the beam.  What is your thought on how many 2x's there should be sticking down from the rim joist to hold the ledger?  One every floor joist bay and one at each end of the ledger?

BTW, I'm in an unorganized township - Ontario terminology for "no building permit required".   :)

Pa, sorry to hijack your post, but this info will likely be handy for when you build your deck.

peg_688

#85
June 05, 2007, 07:25:21 PM
Quote


 ,[highlight] and I'd attach a 2x6 about every 4' to both the house joist and the deck joist with a couple of 1/2x 3" lag screws into each one , so I'd layout the deck joist right under the house joist .[/highlight]


 

 ;)

Pa_Kettle

#86
June 19, 2007, 09:59:14 PM
Another update...
http://cabin.foxlore.net/cabin/vinyl_2.html

We ended up doing lots of fiddly stuff, so we didn't get as much vinyl installed as we'd like.  I started lag bolting the post and pier bracing.  We also cut the 3/4" T&G for the 4' deep loft and put it in place.

As soon as we get the vinyl done, we will move on to insulating the ceiling and building the bath/kitchen partition wall.  It will be 2x6 since all of the plumbing will be located inside and a 3" or 4" drain is called for.


PK

glenn-k

#87
June 19, 2007, 10:08:51 PM
Your lag bolts will really increase the strength of the connection, PK.  Seems it is about 800 lbs per inch of penetration - could depend on size but it's a lot.  A smooth nail may hold around 80 -  100.  Just going from memory - Ken Kern stuff.  Ring shanks or screw nails hold much more.

benevolance

#88
June 20, 2007, 12:11:57 AM
bolting is the way to go.. they are time consuming and expensive...But they are able to withstand anything

fourx

#89
June 20, 2007, 12:58:54 AM Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 12:59:44 AM by fourx
Well worth the extra effort- and building without power using only hardwood that extra effort is considerable- as far as durability goes. Mine have stood up to almost 25 years of hard usage and very extreme weather conditions without even one needing to be replaced.

glenn-k

#90
June 20, 2007, 06:52:21 AM
Hard work that way.  Easier with modern tools - I use a 18v Ryobi drill to predrill and their little impact to put the lags in. About 30 seconds each that way.  Predrilling with the proper drill stops splitting.

Pa_Kettle

#91
June 20, 2007, 09:52:12 AM Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 09:54:21 AM by Pa_Kettle
QuoteHard work that way.  Easier with modern tools - I use a 18v Ryobi drill to predrill and their little impact to put the lags in. About 30 seconds each that way.  Predrilling with the proper drill stops splitting.

Yeah, I predrilled a small hole as deep as I could (3.5"?) and then stepped up to a slightly larger bit and drilled the 2x4 with it.  I used a ratchet, no big deal.  Of course that's why I stated, "I've started installing lag bolts."  I do a few when I have some down time and then rest up. ;D

One reason I've started with the lag bolts, is because we feel some shifting and wobbling that makes us nervous.  We've been in the cabin during some really strong winds and it's rock solid, but when you walk around, certain areas transmit bouncing to others.  I suspect it's the cantilevered flooring and no big deal, but I wanted to be sure.  I have had nightmares of the whole cabin sliding off the footings. :o

PK

benevolance

#92
June 20, 2007, 10:04:35 PM Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 10:05:25 PM by benevolance
Your concerns are why I love cement...And basements

I could never build a house without a basement...All that free space for almost no extra cost

Just my opinion

Kodakjello

#93
June 25, 2007, 01:21:00 PM
benevolance: I hear ya' and that's what I used to think until I moved to Ottawa when I became more, how you say, "flexible". Here the soil changes from heavy clay to sand to fractious bed rock. If you aren't worrying about flooding you're worrying about frost heave or blasting unstable bedrock out of the way to get to the stable stuff. Personally, I would never build on anything but piers here because they are predictable and flexible. If you run into sand or rock or clay you can simply change the length or width of the pier to compensate. You can't do that with a traditional foundation.

Granted, having a basement is treat, especially one with a fireplace. As a kid, it made waiting out those long, cold Winnipeg snowstorms much more enjoyable.

Looking good Pa_kettle!

Pa_Kettle

#94
June 25, 2007, 05:31:42 PM
QuoteLooking good Pa_kettle!
Thanks!

For us, doing a full concrete foundation would have set us back quite a bit in our schedule as well as cost more.  The backhoe dug the holes for our piers in about 40 minutes.  Also, I didn't want to have this structure be my first experience with concrete.

We are happy with the post and pier foundation, we just want to make sure it's as strong and stable as it can be.

PK

Kodakjello

#95
June 25, 2007, 06:52:06 PM
That's a really good point, I keep forgetting that it's going to be much faster getting the piers in than framing up a full frostwall. I'm in the same camp as you, since this is my first structure I wanted to keep things simple.  :)

Kodakjello

Pa_Kettle

#96
July 16, 2007, 10:15:58 PM
Another small update...

http://cabin.foxlore.net/cabin/vinyl_3.html

It was as hot as fire out there, so we had to slow down and douse ourselves with water periodically.  I also got the blocking on the small loft done and the subfloor nailed down.  Now we can use that small loft for actual storage.

I've been reading up on electrical and plumbing.  I have a few plumbing questions, like where is the typical vent being run out on the little cabin, but I'll post in the general forum once I get my drawing together.

PK

jraabe

#97
July 17, 2007, 08:45:38 AM
Here's a photo grab from Pa Kettle's pages.



Looking good!

youngins

#98
July 17, 2007, 09:05:03 AM Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 09:09:36 AM by youngins
Can you please help me understand what a "J-channel, F-channel" is?

Yes- it is looking realling sharp...

Pa_Kettle

#99
July 17, 2007, 10:08:22 AM Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 10:10:29 AM by Pa_Kettle
QuoteCan you please help me understand what a "J-channel, F-channel" is?

Yes- it is looking realling sharp...

F and J channel are vinyl bits that hold/finish the various edges of the vinyl pieces.  Attached are some shots.  You typically need these around windows (unless your windows have built-in J-channels, some vinyl ones do), doors, up at the eaves, etc...

PK
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