Give us your guns

[glenn kangiser]

Found this in several places and on the Russian web site -

Welcome the military into your home -

http://www.carrollspaper.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=7451&TM=30761.17

Spread 'em - don't cough.

http://virginiashootingsportsassociation.blogspot.com/2009/02/state-department-floating-ammo-import.html

Cutting off ammo imports ?

[Windpower]

The Iowa practise drill is particularly disturbing


Military searching for an 'arms dealer'

this is not good

"plans for a lot more drills"

they're planning for something alright and it ain't in Afganistan

'Iowastan' ?

[Dog]

The "Right To Bear Arms" was written right into our constitution for a reason. It's so disturbing to see the way our country is slipping backwards!

If that right was taking away from US citizens and only the power hungry criminals had weapons (the government) try to picture what society would look like!

[Sonoran]

I'm taking a poli sci course and my teacher has been explaining how the constitution is up for interpretation.  Someone mentioned the ordeal about Obama taking away guns when the second amendment says "right to bare arms".

He commented that it said the right for a "militia" to bare arms"  Then he said we already have a militia. National Guard.

The thing that I don't like is that, the whole idea of the right to bare arms came from the idea that the people needed to protect themselves against the British.  The government that they were a part of. 

Of course we have a national guard, but they won't protect our interests they will protect the government's interests. It seems like the people aren't soverign anymore.

[Dog]

many of you probably already know these stats...just a reminder

   
History of 'Gun Control' In Other Countries

The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929.
From 1929 to 1953,about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Turkey established gun control in 1911. From 1915 to 1917,
1.5 Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

[Sassy]

Scary stuff! 

Speaking of Cambodia, Dog - my dad had a nurse's aid come to the house to care for him when he was in hospice.  She was from Cambodia - her father was in the military - the military that was not accepted by the new regime.  She said that 100,000's of people were rounded up, including children & killed.  They would take the people, look at their hands to see if they were calloused.  If they weren't, it meant that they were educated or belonged to the military.  They'd put them in front of big craters, blindfold them & shot them - children included.  She watched this going on as a little child - she was one of the fortunate ones who escaped. 

The videos "Endgame" http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=end+game&emb=0#  & "Fabled Enemies" http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=fabled+enemies+full&www_google_domain=www.google.com&emb=0&aq=1&oq=fabled+ene# are enlightening movies...  not so "conspiracy theory" stuff anymore...  you can watch them on YouTube still (I think) or Alex Jones on Prison Planet/Info Wars has them.  I watched his video on the police state years ago - what used to seem like pure speculation & imagination is happening in Amerika right now!  If you haven't seen Aaron Russo's "From Freedom to Fascism" http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173  that's another great movie that exposes the Federal Reserve.

[MountainDon]

I read the linked story about the National Guard. I read the above comments. I don't see the connection between the exercise that states the purpose is to search out and find a suspected gun dealer and taking away the right to own arms. I read the "gun dealer" reference to mean somebody who is illegally selling arms. Someone who is not an FFL. Someone who is in all likelihood selling stolen guns. This is not gun control; this is criminal control

Rather than go off on a rant about gun control I feel this should be a rant about using the National Guard for police duties. That would be a legitimate complaint to hear.



As for the ammunition import ban, first let me say I searched for more sources on this. The many hits that came up all referenced only the Virginia Shooting Sports article. I believe things more when I see more than one source.

Secondly, this would be an import ban, not a ban on ammunition. From what many here have said about "nothing being made in the USA anymore" this could be a welcome thing. Ammo would have to be made here, creating jobs.   

I know some are going to say in response to that, that the import ban would just be the first nail in the coffin. Could be. But the fact remains it is only a rumored import ban.

Also, I think the following article should be read if anyone tends to believe the shooting sports article...
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4404

[Sassy]

Guess the National Guard decided to scale back its plans...   ://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=89527

[Sassy]

Don't know if I missed this, seems like I vaguely remember hearing something about this...

SWAT Team Raid on Homeschool and Food/Health Ministry for Hungry Families
February 21, 2009 · 6 Comments

    If a dozen or more white terrorists held two women, 10 children, toddlers and a baby hostage for six hours, the event would be on television nationwide and on the front pages of newspapers the next day.

    I suppose it would not mean so much to me if the victims were not my friends, as if they are my brothers and sisters. In fact, they are probably the most loving family I have met in many, many years. I cannot help but bring the story to the forefront again along with new details and nestling all the legal documents and video together in one place.

It happened before Christmas 2008 at a food and health ministry for hungry families in Ohio. It was as if the family were bio-terrorists or something.

Three snipers with high-powered rifles were aimed at the home with ten children being homeschooled. Babies and toddlers were inside also. About twelve armed sheriff deputies along with agents from the Lorain County (Ohio) Health Department and the Ohio Department of Agriculture raided and ransacked the inside and held the family for six hours inside a room in their home outside Lagange, Ohio.

Food, computers and phones were seized from their private home along with 61 boxes of grass-fed beef and lamb were taken that was butchered, wrapped and labeled by a licensed and USDA inspected butcher shop and delivered the day before. According to the expired search warrant, deputies were to seize money and bank accounts. The storehouse of organic foods from a variety of suppliers as well as the personal food stock were taken as the terrified family watched.  con't @ link below

http://wholefoodusa.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/swat-team-raid-on-homeschool-and-food-and-health-ministry-for-hungry-families/

Now if this isn't a type of "prison planet" mentality, I don't know what is...

[MountainDon]

 

Lorain County Sheriff's Office disputes 'raid' at Manna Storehouse

....Manna Storehouse is under investigation to determine whether it is a retail food business without a license. ...


....Sheriff's Capt. Richard Resendez said four deputies conducted the search over three or four hours -- not the nine claimed on some sites. ......


.....One officer carried a shotgun, Resendez said, and the family was kept in one place to control the area, as is standard for any search warrant. .....


Full article here...  the other side of the story   
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/lorain_county_sheriffs_office.html

[Sassy]

The article I posted further states [iOf course the "full story" is in the Cleveland PLAIN DEALER article with the expired Search Warrant and Sherrif's Report here: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/lorain_county_sheriffs_office.html

The Ohio Department of Agriculture (ODA) and the Lorain County General Health District (LCGHD) have until about January 15, 2009 to submit an answer to the civil lawsuit filed by the private food cooperative Manna Storehouse LLC and its owners, John and Jacqueline Stowers (click here for a copy of the complaint).  The civil suit was filed in response to a raid of the Stower's residence and the Manna Storehouse conducted pursuant to a search warrant by the two agencies and the Lorain County Sheriff's Department on December 1, 2008.  Law enforcement officials seized thousands of dollars in business and personal property, including over $8000 worth of the Stowers' personal food supply.In the complaint the Stowers and Manna Storehouse ask for the return of all property seized and for an injunction against any further unconstitutional searches and seizures as well as an injunction prohibiting enforcement of the licensing requirements of the Ohio Uniform Food Safety Code upon the cooperative.  ODA and LCGHD both claim that the co-op needs a retail establishment food permit to operate legally Full Story from Farm-to-consumer Legal Defense Fund.

(Because of new information, our headline has changed this week. In fact, it has already been called lies by some state personnel– "whining farmers, affiliated with liberal media and terrorists organizations". The headline has changed from SWAT-like to SWAT, because there is no real difference, but they were trained by Homeland Security and at least one of the cars were marked SWAT, not to mention the three snipers aiming at the windows. It is a Food Ministry because the Manna Storehouse has administered and distributed wholesome, organic food through their co-op to private members for over ten years-not to mention a good dose of healthy soul food. It is being called a Health Ministry because it offers a healthier and reasonably prices food choices than those at the grocery store. Ask any one of their 300 customers how their health has improved dramatically. It is called a ministry for Hungry Families because most of the customers are children and because they are hungry for healthy, wholesome unadulterated food rather than factory foods with harmful and toxic additives. So we feel the headline is not sensationalism, but more accurate than "SWAT-like Team Raids Organic Co-op".)][/i]

Since I've seen so many instances in the MSM of outright lies & changing stories to cover whoever they're beholden to - just check out anything on the bailout...  I for one would hate to hear that your daycare was raided as to questions about the legality of your license to do business!  I can imagine the stories that would come out of the Sheriff's office after you filed suit for unlawful entry, imprisonment, etc. 

To me, this is just another instance of preparing the sheeple to accept anything from their gov't & "protectors" 

[Windpower]

Guess the National Guard decided to scale back its plans...   http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=89527

Shine a little light on them and they scurry back under the cracks

[glenn kangiser]

Sorry but I will continue to watch them and shed light on them.  That is all that keeps them under control.

I have seen them provoke some one - one of my former customers they knew would resist, in a similar situation just so the Fresno Swat team could try out their new automatic weapons.  They couldn't count the number of holes in him.

Google Fresno Police just for a grin. ...   Ignore the first 6 references and let the fun begin.

Maybe not a direct reference but my point is you can't trust them to be benevolent all of the time.

[rwanders]

Didn't the Supreme Court, for the first time,earlier this year, directly address the meaning of the 2nd Amendment and came down rather firmly for it's protection of an individuals right to bear arms---I believe it was included in a challenge to a very restrictive gun law in the District of Columbia. Perhaps we should try to avoid hyperventilating about what "Obama might do". I do believe we need to be vigilant about protecting all our constitutional rights but, I do think Obama has a lot more pressing matters on his mind for the foreseeable future.

[peternap]

Didn't the Supreme Court, for the first time,earlier this year, directly address the meaning of the 2nd Amendment and came down rather firmly for it's protection of an individuals right to bear arms---I believe it was included in a challenge to a very restrictive gun law in the District of Columbia. Perhaps we should try to avoid hyperventilating about what "Obama might do". I do believe we need to be vigilant about protecting all our constitutional rights but, I do think Obama has a lot more pressing matters on his mind for the foreseeable future.

Yes they did in the Heller decision. It was not a full victory though and left a lot of area, undecided.
It was also a closer vote than is comfortable.
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-2901.pdf

That brings up a new concern. How will the gray area be decided in the future with new Justices?

Justice Ginsberg likely will be dead in 9 months

We need to plan for a Pro American replacement who believes in the Constitution and American Values...NOW! The Heller decision was too close to allow another Supreme Court Justice who has no values.
http://news.oldva.org/blogroll/justice-ginsberg-likely-will-be-dead-in-9-months/

[harry51]

We need to plan for a Pro American replacement who believes in the Constitution and American Values…NOW! The Heller decision was too close to allow another Supreme Court Justice who has no values.

Peter, this is absolutely true! The question is, given the outcome of the election, how to proceed? It is unthinkable in my mind that Obama will nominate a candidate who is even remotely acceptable to those of us who wish to preserve our constitutional republic. The Republicans are notorious for failing to effectively block leftist/statist nominees the way the Socialist Democrats have, apparently having learned nothing from the political lynching of Judge Robert Bork.

I'm afraid the very best we can hope for is that all the conservatives on the current panel of justices will outlive the Obama administration, thereby depriving him of the opportunity to pack SCOTUS with leftist/statists who wish to legislate from the bench. That said, if any possibility of confirming another constructionist, who understands that the Constitution limits the government, presents itself, I'm in!

Sonoran, it would be illuminating to hear what your political science prof has to say about the Heller decision.............you might have to be careful how you broached the subject, though, judging by what he has already said about the 2nd Amendment.

[MikeC]

quote]Sonoran, it would be illuminating to hear what your political science prof has to say about the Heller decision.............you might have to be careful how you broached the subject, though, judging by what he has already said about the 2nd Amendment.[/quote]


THE FIRST FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF CONSTITUTIONAL INTERPRETATION: YOUR RIGHTS DON'T COME FROM GOVERNMENT


Principle Two:
Refer to above

[ScottA]

Commrades these guns are a danger to Socialist System we have been working so hard to implement these past years. Be good subjects and turn them in so we can all be safe eh?

[Sonoran]

I will read up on the Heller decision and ask him.  And you are right about being careful.

I asked a question today and I felt that I was in the right mind, but he has a way of swaying people.

He's kind of like a preacher...he puts a lot of emotion into his discussions and when people ask questions or say things he disagrees with he uses arguments that rely on emotion and articulation more than content.

One time he asked a question and I volunteered an answer.  He countered by manipulating the argument by coming at me with questions that made my answer wrong because he changed the question. I can't describe it well, sorry.

He asked "at this time, can parents kick their children out of the house when they reach 18 years old?"

I answered "yes" and then he started asking..."do you think an 18 year old can make it today all by himself?" and then he started telling stories about how hard it is for young adults to make it.
But I pointed out that he asked can a parent kick his child out at 18...legally, yes they can, but he still didn't admit that he manipulated my answer.

Today, he was talking about something Obama did that he was amazed with.  The Republican party asked Obama to talk with ....Nancy Pelosi, I believe, and try to encourage Congress to not shun the republican minority, and to let them in on the process.  My teacher was amazed because Obama's answer was "I will not get involved with the politics of Congress"  He thought it was amazing because Obama was respecting the separation of powers and not exceeding his bounds.

I asked the teacher about the State of the Union address that the president gives to congress, where he suggests what he hopes they will do for the year...I asked, how is that any different then the President agreeing to talk to Pelosi when the Republicans ask him too.

He showed me how it was different in this long description that I tuned out once I realized he hadn't accepted my question. 

He pointed out that the president shouldn't tell congress what to do when they ask him too. And I asked, what if he suggests that Pelosi does this...he still said it was different....grrrr.

I disagree...