How much electricity do I need?

[FrankInWIS]

I have to put in my meter base and service panel for the electric company hook up to.  My brother in law says I should put in a 200 amp panel and meter socket.  Sounded good to me.  
The "expert electrician" at Home Depot said that was overkill and the cost of wire and other things would cost a lot more.  
The electric company guy who came onto my property to discuss the location said I needed #4 wire, but when I looked at the chart at Home Depot is was clear I needed at least #2 copper to support 200 AMPS, and boy is that stuff expensive!!  
What are you guys using out there for a general home with a small amount of shop work that could include a welder?
100 AMP, 150 AMP, 200 AMP ?
by the way, I have to use "rigid"pipe.  That's not cheap either.  No EMT conduit here, top $$.  I have yet to find the expansion joint needed....for solid galvanized pipe.  

Thanks
Frank

[desdawg]

If I put in a meter base and service panel here the utility company provides and pulls the wire to it. The ones I use are split with half being the utility company's side and the other half housing my breakers. From the breakers on to whatever devices you are installing requires normal romex (#14 for a 15 amp circuit or #12 for a 20 amp circuit etc.)

[FrankInWIS]

yep, they wire to the meter base, but I intend to have the wire in from the meter base to the panel by the time they come so I don't have to hanlde that BIG wire hot.   What I wonder about is how much service to put in.  The more the service the bigger the wire from the meter socket to the panel and the higher the cost.  Plus more for the bigger panel, etc.  

[peter nap]

Same here!
You install the panel and they supply the meter base. You run the wire through the wall to the base and they run the service entrance into the line side of the base. As a rule, they also connect your wire to the load side but if they don't, just torque ti to specs.

You shouldn't have to provide but a few feet of wire!

[peter nap]

[highlight]hanlde that BIG wire hot.  [/highlight]

You don't have to. The meter is also the disconnect and they will leave it out long enough for you to connect. That's the reason they usually make both connections for you.

You are better to go with 200 amp service. Upgrades are expensive and 200 amps are considered the low end these days.

As to wire size, go with the power company says! Since your making a short run the charts are skewed!

[ScottA]

Nowadays 200 amp is the standard minimum I've seen around here. Are you burying it in the ground for a service from a pole to the house? Is direct bury cable an option if you dig it down deep enough? Around here you only need to put it in pipe down to 4' below grade if you use direct bury cable. I suspect this varies from place to place though. Each local seems to have it's own way of doing things cause thats how it's always been done and no one cares to change anything ever.

Scott

[FrankInWIS]

Well the meter base is outside at about 6' high.  Got to go down the wall and into the garage and then back up the wall to the service panel.  5' down 2 ' in 5 ' up + slack = 15' .  that times 3 wires = 45 and #2 is $2.84 a foot!  

[MountainDon]

When we bought this home 22 years ago it came with a 100 amp service entrance and panel. No choice in the matter. Over the years I filled all available breaker positions, then added a sub panel for the new shop. I've never had a problem but starting out with 200 might have been nicer.

How to estimate service entrance capacity
http://www.inspect-ny.com/electric/ElecAmps.htm

[desdawg]

The type I was talking about has the meter base and the breakers all contained in the same box. You have to go outdoors to turn on and off your breakers. Most homes here have 200 amp services. If there is going to be a big shop or garage sometimes we will see 400 amp services. There are hardly any 100 amp services anymore in these parts. Of course in AZ nearly everyone has air conditioning. Once in a while we will see a 100 amp panel on homes that have gas appliances. There are a lot of all electric homes here.

[MountainDon]

My brain just kicked into high range.   When we decided we wanted to change from the evaporative cooling system to refrigerated A/C we were lucky to have an installed, but at that time un-used circuit the old electric range used. The next owners [whenever that will be?] will not be able to use an electric range without some electrical system upgrades.    Prior to that I'd already "stolen" the unused electric clothes dryer feed.  

[desdawg]

I think somewhere in the electrical code there is a maximim formula as to how many amps of circuits you can have. For instance a 100 amp service is not limited to 5-20 amp circuits. I remember hearing something like 200% but I don't know if that is accurate. Since every circuit isn't maxed out all of the time there is an allowance factor in there somewhere. A 100 amp service with a 50 amp range and a 30 amp clothes dryer would only have 20 amps remaining if that were true. So just because you ran out of breaker spaces doesn't mean you can't add more. Does anyone know what is allowable by code?

[MountainDon]

... 100 amp service is not limited to 5-20 amp circuits. I remember hearing something like 200% but I don't know if that is accurate. Since every circuit isn't maxed out all of the time there is an allowance factor

Absolutely good point!! I don't know what code says. All I can say is that the factor must be at least double, more like triple, or???  because I got the blessing of the local permit folks/inspectors, twice... once before I added on and secondly after I was finished, and the total of the individual breaker amps is over 4 times the 100 amp panel rating when everything is added up. [I went and counted...]  ... for whatever that's worth.

[FrankInWIS]

yeh, I can see how I should spend the little more and have all I might need available.  200 amps it is.  

Anyone with info on wire size from the meter to the panel ?  4 like elec co. said, or 2 like the HD chart/guy said.  It is less than 15' if that makes the difference.

[MountainDon]

My Electrical Designer's calculator indicates full load of 200 amps, at 120 VAC, 15 feet, copper, 2% voltage drop would be okay with 4 AWG, and that #4 would be good to 19 feet at those values.    :-/

I would think the power company should know. The HD chart may have some profit calculated into it.  

[Redoverfarm]

Do I understand you corrrectly that you are using galvanized pipe. Is that for the entrance mast?  I guess I am lucky in a way as not to have code only the power companys guidelines ( Which are probably industry codes). I put buried cable for 350ft and it had to be at least 36" below grade at the house where it came up to the meter base. It had to be in Sch40 grey. They supplied the meter base and furnished the wire to the panel box from the meter base Only 8". They used the same entrance wire that was used in the run.  I never heard of a customer having to provide the meter base. Is it a meter base or a disconnect?

Nowdays a 200 amp should almost be a no brainer. No one says you have to fill it up. Just use what you need and leave the others closed off until you need it. If you think the wire is expensive wait until to use a large breaker for a sub-panel for your shop$$$$$$

[FrankInWI]

Thanks a lot for the wire size info.  

yep, I have to provide the meter socket and install it.  They run the wire underground to the meter socket I installed and the run to the panel is all mine too.   Yep, heavy galvanized pipe!  Damn, wonder how I am going to cut that!  Guess it'll be with the sawzall and metal blade.  

[desdawg]

Won't you have to get it cut and threaded Frank? It will take screwed fittings or nuts or thread into a hub if I am picturing it correctly. No cheesy clamped on EMT fittings for this conduit.

[FrankInWIS]

The IDIOT electric company listed "Rigid" conduit as their requirement.  Thats the HEAVY galvanized pipe.  I couldn't believe it, but was going to comply.  THEN I see elsewhere in the document from the electric company that "Rigid" means .....and then they listed numerous types of conduit, including PVC.  I went with that, did it this weekend.  Boy is that wire hard to work with in the cold!  I'm happy though, looks good.  Hope they agree and hook it up next week.

[MountainDon]

Well, great. Working with grey electrical PVC beats the heavy rigid metal stuff any day of the week.  

G/L with the inspection and hookup.

[desdawg]

Schedule 80 plastic could be "rigid" I suppose?

[glenn kangiser]

...at least as opposed to flexible. :-/