900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY

[Redoverfarm]

that does look like it would work good..Tough to get an idea of scale .  Is there something its called?  Something I can google search for?

Thanks John.

They are still sold at most tractor impliment dealers.   

Tractor Supply has them.  Doesn't look that difficult to make an attachment to the hoe bucket for a Class I -3 point hitch. Know anyone who has a machine shop?


http://www.tractorsupply.com/countyline-reg-dirt-scoop-2131514

[Rob_O]

Is there something its called?  Something I can google search for?

That's called a pond scoop or a dirt scoop

[rick91351]

that does look like it would work good..Tough to get an idea of scale .  Is there something its called?  Something I can google search for?

Thanks John.

The ones pulled behind a horse were called a Fresno Scraper. 

http://www.farmcollector.com/equipment/fresno-scraper.aspx

[umtallguy]

check craigslist, you can often get old dumptrucks that are no longer road legal cheap..

not sure where in NY you are, but there should be a bunch like this one around, I see them regularly.
http://plattsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/3008454000.html

hrmm though how high can that bucket lift, would it even work with a dump?

[speedfunk]

Update: Up to 130 hours on the machine and I got the lower (South facing) earthtubes set and buried and they work!!!!! Not that it should be a big deal that pipes connected to the lowest part of the house should drain air but after a lot of mental exercises  its VERY nice to see and feel air moving 

I got a bunch of pictures to post.   I ended up doing 6 100' foot runs instead of my original plan on  6 150' length of runs.  Its kind of expensive doing this piece of the project so I figure I can always extend it further down the hill if needed.  Their were 2 in the large room and 1 in our bedroom.   Also I think it would be real challenging fitting 150' x 6 under the 25' from wall insulated PAHS skirting/cape.  I ended up using PVC schedule 40 and long sweep 90 degree elbows (and some 45's).  Dry fitting and screwing each one together (NO GLUE).

There were 3 options for pipe that through extensive search  i have seen used.

1.The corrugated roll black poly 4" pipe usually coming in long 50' lengths?
2. The 10' pipes that have a black poly ribbing then covered in pvc.
3. The 10' or 20' Schedule 40 standard issue 4" pvc foam core pipe.

Option 1: I've seen being used online.  They run a circular saw down the pipe to create "weep holes"  allowing any condensation to drain.  This pipe when I visited seemed way to wimpy.  I might still play with this option in another project.  Back fill with pebble gravel would help also.  Being that this is UNDER skirting/cape and very difficult to re-excavate , I would very nervous about the pipe getting crushed.   Thus negating my time and labor.   The ability to clean this pipe would be also be limited compared to other options.

option 2: we used this pipe for draining the footer and for leech field lines and its just not  something that is strong enough to handle being crossed with a machine w/ the weight of earth.  When I was digging up the front part of the house I accidentally hit an example of this pipe and it just shreds.  Seeing first hand  a profile of the pipe being misshaped badly under casual in ground use!  This is not acceptable.  This stuff is cheaper but I wont be using this for any more projects.

Option 3: Old skool pvc schedule 40.  You cannot break this stuff.  Its easy to clean.  Weap holes reserved for the joints so no processing it.  The one thing I didnt want to the nasty smell I get when I cut this stuff messing my air up.  I have rationally come to the stance that this PVC type of pipe is relatively inert.  As long as its not crazy hot or out in the sun it does not have any smell or anything really.

Deb has been working on the electric in the kitchen.  She got some outlets finished we hooked up a range/stove.
   
Deb also got me a birthday present.  Loyld Kahns new book!!!!!  I have the most awesome wife evar!!  It was really cool to see some of the projects here in it.  He gave a nice overview of this site which i thought was awesome. Pretty excited about it    
Its really great sharing this project with you all and being a part of this awesome online community.

TECHIE TYPES:  I know of few that want to see proof of the pahs concept in action.  People have requested I bury a temp sensor in the ground to measure the stored heat.  The thing is I really don't care that much , i figure it will become easy to manage and seems UN-nessacary.  HOWEVER, I would like to contribute an example of passive annualized heat storage and numbers seems to help?  SO long setup short.  If you want a sensor buried PM me and I will take the time to bury whatever you want to donate/send me but if not I'm going to skip it.  Okay thats all for now.  Pics following.

[Dog]

  WOW! So impressed with how things are moving along. The house looks beautiful!

[drainl]

Thanks dog!  Here's some shots from our winter project... the stone floor.

Jeff had the idea to use stone from our property for the living room floor. With the little ones getting mobile and putting everything in their mouths, it was time to cover our pea gravel floor. I’ll admit it took me some time to warm up to the idea, but I’m happy we did it. It took us quite awhile to do (these photos are from a three month span) and it’s still a work in progress as you’ll read…

As we unearthed flat rocks (2″ thick +) we’d throw them inside. We worked at night fitting it together. I like puzzles, but these pieces were heavy!



Once all the pieces were in their final location, Jeff went through and leveled them all out. Then I cleaned (most of them) up.





We talked about many different materials to use as a grout, and since we were looking for the least chemical option, we started with plain stone dust from our local stone place. We got it moist and pushed it right in the gaps.





The stone dust was difficult to get a smooth top on and it took awhile to dry. Once it did dry, it chipped away easily. We decided to add some portland to our next section of grout.



As you can see the portland mix on the right was a lot easier to get smooth. It dried quicker and didn’t chip too easily. We continued to do the rest of the floor this way.





All grouted!


Next was a poly. But first we had to get the floor really clean. I didn’t do a good cleaning on one section of the rocks pre-grout which caused problems here. The dirt from the rocks got on the grout when cleaning, so it took some work to get it all looking decent. Again trying to do less chemicals we went with a water based semi-gloss poly. It went on easy with brushes. The glass scared me at first but it has dulled down since.







Victory! This was about two months ago.   It's been great having a solid floor and utilizing all our square footage.  Unfortunately the grout isn’t holding up well. All the parts where we did a stone dust/portland mix are chipping. Funny thing is the stone dust section hasn’t been a problem at all! We figure since the stone dust was porous, the poly soaked in making it stronger. The stone dust/portland mix was much less porous. So, we’re tossing around ideas for what to do next. Stay tuned!

[CjAl]

hate to say it but with the stones just set on pea gravel and not on a bed of morter i dont think any grout will last too long

[Squirl]

That is fantastic.

I have been dreaming of a floor like that for a long time.  I am very jealous.

[speedfunk]

Cjal:  In  Debs post you'll note she said that the stone dust/poly between the rocks is holding up great.  The issue is not the rocks or the gravel or the solidness of them.  They are set good and dont move.   The surface of the grout (only the portland/stone dust mix) we did is wearing away.  I thought by getting it smooth it would be more durable that just stone dust , instead however because of its smoothness did not absorb the poly.  Now that the surface is rough again I think maybe some type of natural oil might be good or we can try poly again and see how that goes.   

[CjAl]

she first said it wasnt holding up then said it was so i dont know. i think its just a matter of time before any rigid grout cracks. unless i am mistaken pea gravel is not compactable so even though it feels stable it more then likely has some movement and any grout would need to ne somewhat flexible.

im not bashing it, it looks great in the finished pic and i wasnt so sure when i saw the first pics so good job. just giving an opinion which someone who knows more can support it or say why im wrong.

[archimedes]

I think the floor looks great,  nice job.

I did a similar thing using dry mortar right out of the bag,  jamming it into the spaces between and under the stones,  then wetting it down.  The mortar set up fine,  smoothed it a little to get a nice finished mortar joint and I was done.  This was an outdoor location (kinda messy) so not the same as yours.  Mine never cracked and it's been 10 years - but I'm in FL,  no freeze/thaw.

Love the way the house is coming out.   

[speedfunk]

Update:  5 out of 6 earth tubes done and burried.  Hopefully this weekend get knock the last one out.  Also have done loads of grading behind the house.  This has involved much earth to be moved.  I am much happier though that I think I have a nice topology that 1. takes rain water away from rear wall where its currently been hanging out and 2. gives rain a path of least resistance to far away from the house on the sides.  All ready I can see improvements. 

Deb mostly with me helping when needed, have finished up all the electric stuff, besides kitchen counter outlets and outside the house mounted outlets.  The last thing she did was install the smoke/carbon monoxide detectors .  One in our bedroom and one in the great room.

Time to start getting ready for the winter.  Get some firewood delivered.  Next year we should have time to cut and dry our own but we need all the time we can get to finish earthtubes/get rubber membrane on at least the rear of the house .   In our climate the cold rains that penetrate the soil seem to be a bigger issue then the ambient air robbing heat from our home.   Also the rigid insulation on exterior block and furring strips to hold them are next.  We also have to build the window frames and fasten them around the exterior of the windows.

Deb has also been working on ...very when there is some free time is window curtains.  When we get one setup on the wall we will post pics..i think they will look pretty cool.  You just cannot ignore the biggest loser of heat in your home the windows.  We have double paned but compared to the walls of r20 it is a major thermal bridge to the outside. 

All the above mentioned complete would give us a comfy winter this year

[speedfunk]

archimedes,  That's a good idea stuff it in dry and wetting!  Thanks for the good words also. 

Squirl:  Thanks man! 

[speedfunk]

Update: Upper Earthtubes done and buried! woot.

It works (really REALLY quick observation need MUCH more to gain full understanding). Two nights ago when the outside temp had dropped (say 60ish) the interior temp was still warm (75ish) I went outside to where the upper earthtubes end. The air coming out of the pipes was considerably warmer (I would guess close to the 75)  then the ambient outside air.  The windows in the house were open.  So its chimney effect is working. 

Next is to get the back part covered up with pond liner and insulated.  If we can get the back done before years end that would be good with me.  The front could wait but I really want to stop the rear of the house from absorbing water and putting pressure on rear wall any more then what I have allready allowed 


When its winter these effects should be maximized and I can gain better understanding of the forces at work. 

[speedfunk]

Here is a video I shot of questional video skills  .  I thought it would be a good time for this b/c each side of the house was at a different stage in the transistion of block and soil to insulation skirting and the two meeting up. So it nicely shows the whole process in one quick trip around the house. 

I also have a quick shot  at the passive inline water pre-heater (black poly pipes) and a quick shot of the top 3 runs of pvc pipe that is the fresh air earthtube section.

Dont worry we got tons of pics backlogged that I feel are important to post also.  Esp of earthtubes which is what I have focused on mostly this summer.

The house in its current state is the most comfortable its ever been.    We will keep on the house insulation and first 4 feet of ground insulation/rubber roof membrane.   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWhsr8_hDhY&list=UUTVLCuKizLEYTxbrGARNMVw&index=1

[Dog]

Wow! You guys have really done a nice job. The amount of work you have done is astounding. 80% done is a good number  Will you be living there this winter?

[drainl]

Thanks Dog!  It feels good to be wrapping things up.  I don't know Jeff, but my hope is to have our CO (or at least a temporary one) by March 2013.  We broke ground in March 2009.  Four years seems like a good number!  It's funny looking back at the posts - our son was about the same age when we started as our girls are now.  A lot can change in life in four years!


As I mentioned in a previous post the experimental grout we used on our stone floor was slowly chipping away and making a mess.  Our temporary solution was to put a bunch of throw rugs on it to keep the dust down.  That sort of worked for awhile, but a do-over was needed.
Jeff had used surface bonding cement as a grout in the stone area under the wood stove.  This had held up very well over the past year, so that's what we went with.  First we removed the old grout and exposed the stone sides (at least an inch down).  Next the new SBC went in.  The whole process took about 5 days.  It's a couple of weeks later and it's holding up great!  The water based poly we originally applied is still on the stones.  We'll leave the SBC untreated for now.  Hopefully the house (and kids!) will stay much cleaner now.

Finishing up!

[archimedes]

Looks great.

What kind of stone is that.

[speedfunk]

Acrhimedes: Thank you!! Im not sure how to answer. ok , so there is def a good amount blue stone in there.  There is a old quarry higher up on the property. The rest is mostly rocks that had flat edge.  Some were picked cause they just looked cool, like one that looks like outerspace with different space debri in it   Some have just a cool deisgn in them.
There seems to be a large variation of colors and shapes which is kind of fun.I have been steadily putting rocks in piles.  These rocks were in those pile.  I believe  rock will be a large part of shaping this landscape/property.  I like rocks lol.

Update: Just wanted to add that I used a pointed trowel to fill between the rocks, that seem to work the best.  I am now mixing surface Cement with gloves by hand in a concrete mixing metal thing .  It seems the best way really.  By using hands it:


1.keeps the dust down
2.mixes just as quick as hoe/cement mixer
3.gets better mix by using fingers.  With a Hoe or cement mixer the stuff tends to ball up. Use your hands anyway
4.Easiest to judge how much water is the right amount.  Esp with cement mixer it seems I always had issues with correct amount of water/sbc.

I kept the grout(surface bonding cement) mostly above the rocks this time.  Learning from the first time where it was a bit lower then surrounding rocks.   This made it difficult to sweep up, being your dirt is in the lowest place and it collects it. 

[archimedes]

Some were picked cause they just looked cool, like one that looks like outerspace with different space debri in it   Some have just a cool deisgn in them. 

That works for me.   

I live in FL,  if you want a rock here you have to go to the store and get it.

[flyingvan]

Just went through your build from the start....Wow, what  a lot of work!  And good job documenting it too while you're going.  I'm a bit envious of your flat rocks---we have very pretty stones out here, but they don't come with any flat surfaces

[speedfunk]

Yeah.. The mountains here are not rocks that were ever pushed upward rather a "plain" that got eroded/carved into mountains. So most all the layers are stratified (think thats the right word).  The are all level layers of said time period. There is also rocks that were moved here that are roundish too.  The glaciers left different rock types?

I am no expert but that is my best explanation.  A lot of the rocks in my piles were found while digging

Merry Christmas/ Winter Solstice everyone !

[flyingvan]

Yeah---when I've travelled east all the geology feels very old.  here, the mountains are all sheets of stone turned up while the pacific plate collided (and continues to collide) with the North American plate.  Hard, sharp stones.  Galciers shaped Yosemite and other areas but the Peninsular Range that runs from our neighborhood South, forming Baja California and ending in Cabo San Lucas, are pretty much a single ridge with little room for big glaciers.  We ought to set up a cross country stone exchange for building, or just scatter them around to confuse the geologists

[Freedom Quest]

Jeff and Deb,

Just a word to say thank you for sharing your project over the last four years.  You guys were quite the inspiration for me - I got my building permit last week. 

I am hoping to see how you finish the outside of the house - I've not seen it mentioned but are you going with 4" of EPS with an EIFS finish?

HWS
Paul