A New Start to a old build.

Started by schiada, August 25, 2013, 07:43:00 PM

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And some weather just before we started to unload the slid-in.


Did some more work around the camp site. Some fencing for the dogs.(like that will hold them,LOL) And some thinking about where to start.
Still need some more fencing .

And some more weather.

Hope to have this area finish over Labor Day then on to the pad and setting up to build.


First try this year. Is this what the Code people will be looking for ?

Wilhoit I by Randy Wefel, on Flickr


Got some things cut leading up to the pad.. Will start removing the brush leading up to the basement to give room for the cement mixer to move in. Should make doing the foundation easier ? I hope. 


And got the fence up to keep the 4 legged kid's under control.


After having problems with the Country Plan I'm going to something that is 2015 IRC ready.

Not sure if I should keep posting because its not from here ?


John has never limited anyone from posting their own plan or plans purchased elsewhere, so I'd say go ahead.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Please keep posting. Things have been knd of quiet on here.
Love seeing progress to keep me inspired.   


New plans are here.  ;D

Will tell you all more after getting a look.

Need to setup my old drafting table . Their 28 x 40.  :)


Just put the tape on it. Going to need a new top .only 22 x 31. d*
Going to go 33 x 43. [cool]



I will call this "Barn 1 "

Do you framers see any thing that can be done better ?


I'm assuming there is an upper loft floor acting as a tie at plate level. I prefer a steeper lower pitch to get more useable floor area. Without engineering a steeper lower pitch has less horizontal thrust and then I tie the upper pitch with ceiling joists across that upper pitch, a structural ridge would work too.

Gambrels suffer from the same problems A frames do as far as the "tunnel effect" of only having lighting at the ends. I haven't seen too many visually pleasing dormers short of a full cross gable.

Follow the load path in the 2nd drawing over the garage door opening. The roof and loft floor would deliver load to the window headers. Those jacks are delivering point loads onto the garage header, then a uniform main floor load. That will probably be an engineered header like an LVL or similar, I'd point that out when asking them to size it.


The roof is a truss system.
Garage header is a LVL 5 1/4" x 16".

Thinking about (2) 6' Dormer windows ? Would help with the general space on the second floor.
Also maybe a third on the other side for a second floor bath ?

Thanks, DonP


Also what about running a Glulam at the center point and running the  I floor joist to the gable end wall to take some weight off the garage header ?

Something like this ?


Does that reduce the joist span? Can you tolerate a line of probably 2 interior posts or better a wall there? If so run all the joists gable to center bearing to gable.

That is a fairly common timber frame barn here... hang on

The joists run gable to gable. The H frame bents support the roof well. Just another way.


The span would go from 28' +- to about 19' 9 1/4" using a side joist hanger on the center Beam/joist. My idea is to take some of the load and put more onto the block wall with no openings.
Still need to have the Joist company have a look. I think it will pass the IRC ? And it would only add a 4" steel post to the basement.


Nothing is jumping out at me. If the gables have no holes then that's easy, else check your header or lintel capacity. The floor, girder and roof trusses are engineered by the supplier. Understand what I was saying wrt the joist spans and deflections, you'll want fairly stiff joists and girder at long spans. This is a no tile job. I'm assuming the roof trusses are an attic type with a loft floor clear spanning the 28', no truss loads landing on the main floor. Read the section in the IRC on foundation construction and reinforcement. You'll probably want double jacks on headers over 6', look at the header and girder table, chapter 5 I believe for sizes and number of jacks.

Some quick math, the girder spans 28' and supports half of each joist on each side (the gable foundation walls support the other half of each joist), so tributary width bearing on the girder is around 20'.
Look at the post first, same thing, the post supports the center half of the girder 7' each way from the post along the girder, 14'
Area supported by the post is then20'x14'=280 sf. Multiply by dead load of the floor 10psf+ 40psf live load. 280 sf x 50 psf design load= 14,000 lbs, the post, at its length, has to be capable of resisting that load without buckling. Check the post capacity on the sticker.

The footing under the post likewise. Assuming 2,000 psf soil bearing capacity 14,000 lbs/2,000 psf=7sf of footing area under the post. Square root of 7 is around 32" square for the post footing in 2,000 psf soil. To resist "punch through" of the post through the footing it needs to be thick enough to maintain an imaginary 45 degree angle from edge of the 4" post to bottom of footing (32-4)/2=14" thick. So spitballing it, a 32" square x 14" thick post footing. You may have better soil numbers to plug in above.

How big is the girder. 14' span wall to post x 20' trib width=280 sf x 50 psf =14,000 lbs, same solution but now we are looking at the area between wall and post on either side of the post.
Assuming LVL's for the girder, a triple 14" deep LVL girder should be in the ballpark. The supplier will do all that just some quick numbers to play with sizes in your drawing, headroom, post length, etc. Download the I joist catalog for your supplier, I suspect you'll be using BCI's but check. You should be able to look at the choices and get close, start with 14" options if you want a flat ceiling below.

Now with those elevations sketched in...

I've just had you criss cross the framing between floors, solve one problem, create another, I'd play with stairs next.


Thanks DonP.

I was working from 15,600 lbs.


Got two books by Larry Haun,very good read.


Went up to the project today. We had some snow.

But it will all be gone by Friday.