Roof tear off.

[rakuz66]

Ok, I'm seriously considering ripping my entire roof off and starting from scratch with new trusses, ply, shingles, etc.  I own a camp that is 600 sq ft and needs new shingles or metal anyway, and probably 1/3 of the ply needs replacing.  It's 25 yrs old (original roof) with a 5/12 pitch and in heavy snow country (85 PSF). I've had it for 2 yrs and this shoveling the roof will get old quick or cost me lots of $$ in the long run.  I'm not made of $$ and am pretty handy, so I'm thinking of tackling this project myself with a friend.

Anyway, I'm interersted in the experts opinion out there on how to handle this situation and any advise.  Maybe someone has done this before.  

My thoughts:
1.  Do I tear everything off down to the top plate at once exposing everything and start?
2.  Take maybe 4 ft off at a time and replace with new truss, another 4ft-replace, until all trusses are up?
3.  What do I need to take into consideration( besides the weather)?  Plumb walls, what else?
4.  Camp is rectangle shape.  I'm sure my back wall is probably not level with front wall.  Back of camp has settled a little.  How to rectify?? Can I add another top plate and make it level all around??  Any problems doing that besides adding some moulding?
5.  Lastly, what is a good pitch to shed snow if I plan on using shingles???

Thanks.
5.  

[PEG688]

You ARE  over kill man 

  Thinks to consider are wires will all need to be pulled out of the rafters and more importantly be re -run up in the new trusses , NO notching / let the wires up into the under side of the bottom chords .

YOU CAN NOT CUT / ADAPT / MODIFY a TRUSS w/o engineering .

All the attic plumbing vents will like wise need moved and reinstalled.

The best way will be to pull the whole roof off so all the trusses can be installed w/o the rafters being in the way .

The sagging wall , are you sure it's sagged and not just bowed out?

If it's sagged , why ? Bad foundation , no foundation ?

If it's a wall bow you might be able to come along it back straight , maybe . Be careful the cable could snap , or a variety of other issues could happen , mostly the cable will cut thru some wood and you'll only be able to tug so much till it refuses to move.

You may get MORE requirements to up grade every thing from the building dept , so you may be opening pandora's box here.

  8 /12 roof and up shed just about everything , more so with a metal roof . You may want to design gables "dormers " over doorways so snow slides don't come right at the door / sidewalks . The place will look different / better was well .



   

[glenn kangiser]

Most of the roofs I see in that type area are 12/12.  That would leave you room for attic trusses to gain some space if desired.

You could level with a water level or a laser if placed in a good location to where it clears decent.  Jacking and shimming as required and in increments that won't over stress the rest of the house.

...but since you were lucky enough to get an answer from PEG first, listen to him first.

[rakuz66]

I hear you Peg, overkill plus OCD!     Anyway, I live about 5 + hrs away from camp so I just can't stop over if there's any problem.  I'm seriously thinking about it.  That roof never sat well with me from the start with the cut trusses and all.  I probably have about $ 500.00 into the roof at this point for repairs,( live and learn) but I do need to replace the roof with something soon and it definetly needs some new ply. Metal will cost aboyt $3000.00 to have some one do it and about $1200.00 if I shingle it.  But then I still only have a 5/12 pitch that needs to be shoveled If I plan on keeping it for yrs to come, I thought maybe this is the way to go.  Getting some prices and trusses, we'll see. Really not overkill in this situation, I don't think, just trying to do it right and be done with it once and for all!

1. No plumbing vents to worry about.
2. Yes, I'll have to re-wire.
3. Camp is on piers.  I repoured 4 new 4 ft deep 24 in piers last yr on the back end.  I'm not exactly sure back wall is lower than front, but I bet it is. I raised the camp as much as I could without altering anything else.  I take it shimming a truss would be ok , if needed?? 
4.  Also, Which is better, nailing truss to plate or using those truss connectors??

[rakuz66]

Another pic.

[glenn kangiser]

If the wall height is right then shimming the truss would still leave the floor unlevel.

[rakuz66]

You are absolutely correct Glenn, the floor is unlevel, but that's ok with me, it kinda adds a backwoods quality to it.  I'd rather have a uneven floor than willy-nilly roof, no offense Willy!. 

BTW, PEG, you got it, the whole interior will look a lot better because I plan on using reg trusses over the bedrooms, but scissor trusses over the rest to vault the ceiling.  You don't need a ridge BEAM with trusses right??  I didn't realize that trusses were that affordable??/ Not cheap, but reasonable.

[PEG688]

It' looks fairly straight in the photos.

Ya you could shim a few trusses,  up a lil, maybe max 1/2" , use plywood strips , as wide as the top plate.

I'd use a H-1's where they fit and H 2.5's where interior walls get in the way , you can put them on the exterior as you'll have D/W on the inside walls I'd guess ? The clips can go either place , in or out.

  A metal roof would be nice inside all those trees for shedding stuff.

I'd suggest adding some diaginal 4x4 's to your post  , or 2x4's locking the posts to the floor framing . I see you have it lagged and toe nailed , the diaginals will add much to rack resitance from walking around on the floor inside , people moving about , etc.

As Glenn mentioned if the walls are framed true and you have dip it ain't gonna be perfect , but you know that.     

[PEG688]

BTW, PEG, you got it, the whole interior will look a lot better because I plan on using reg trusses over the bedrooms, but scissor trusses over the rest to vault the ceiling.  You don't need a ridge BEAM with trusses right??  I didn't realize that trusses were that affordable??/ Not cheap, but reasonable.

I was talking about the exterior look more than the inside .

No  ridge beam / ridge pole / ridge board  ( what ever you want to call the ridge ) required with trusses.

You will have some attic back framing diagonals, rat runs ( 2x4 to hold the trusses on lay out)  to install.

Yes trusses arn't to spendy in relation to overall cost , and stick framing labor adds to that cost. Trusses are aways cheaper I'd bet , less wood manf. buy in bulk getting a better price etc , Thats way most homes today have truss roofs.It's cheaper. More clear spanning /open rooms ,  etc .   

[rakuz66]

Peg, you may be right.  I could be opening up a can of worms if I tear this roof off.  I'm trying to shine s*** here and it probably won't work.  BTW, I had an engineer out to look at camp and they gave their signed stamped approval stating it was structurally sound.  Got the paper the other day.  Now, I probably should let it go as is.

[PEG688]

I would , I'd strip the roof , replace any bad plywood, maybe all the plywood with 5/8 CDX and put a 30 or 50 comp shingle on it . Baring a tree strike you never in your life time have to replace the roof , and you'll still be able to walk up on it to clean it and the gutter (should you put any on ) that way.

Metal roof are OK but most people can not walk on them , even at that low a pitch , thats why I'd use 30 or 50 year comp.

Did the Eng. say anything about diagonal bracing on the posts , or was he only paid to look at the roof framing?

I'd brace those post , if it where mine, or for that matter if I where hired to look at or beef up the place. Posts , not supported diagonally tend to wobble , a little at first then more as time goes no , so suttley a person who uses a place won't even notice , it just becomes "normal" if you get what I mean.

G/L PEG   

[rakuz66]

Peg, I was hoping you would read my last post.  I contacted a local engineer to look at the camp ( should of done that before I bought it!) and they didn't say anything about bracing the foundation posts other than they were sufficient to transfer loads to the soil.  Basically their letter stated " modified roof trusses were well braced and repaired.  2x8 rafters sistered to old 2x4 rafters were adequate for span, and double 2x10 cross ties were more than sufficient to keep walls from spreading at top plate." 

Replacing the sheathing was my plan in the first place, but then I thought why not do it all??  Of course, the more I thought about it, the more problems I realized would occur.  Wiring/plumbing/money/walls not square/etc,,etc,,etc.  My main worry was roof collapse from the cut truss, but I guess that is not a concern at this point.   You seen the pics, that roof shouldn't go anywhere.

What do you mean by 30 or 50 yr comp??  Do you mean architechtural shingle??  If so, that's what I plan on using.  A lightweight arch shingle with 15 felt and ice/water shield in valleys / rake and 3 ft up eaves.

Also, in bracing the posts, I guess I would brace from bottom of post at concrete pier to underside of rim joist using a 4x4 PT ?

[PEG688]

  #1: What do you mean by 30 or 50 yr comp?? 


  #2: Do you mean architectural shingle?? 


  #3:  A lightweight arch shingle with 15 felt and ice/water shield in valleys / rake and 3 ft up eaves. 


   #4:  Also, in bracing the posts, I guess I would brace from bottom of post at concrete pier to underside of rim joist using a 4x4 PT ?

#1: Shingles are sold either by weight , 240 lbs oer square , 300 lbs per square , etc , or by estimated life span , 15 yr. , 20 yr. , 30 yr. , not sure if there's a 40 yr    , and 50 year.

At least out here in the PNW.

#2: The architectural shingle term is also used , but the shingle life span also is on the label out here. They are a laminated / built up shingle to add depth / detail and thickness is what it amounts to.   But yes they may be sold as architectural shingles where you are .

#3: On  a roof you want 30 lbs felt , your roof is so small you might just roll out the ice and water shield on the whole works ,  what do you have about 550 or 600 sq. feet , so 6 squares of shingle. Ice and water shield comes in 400 sq ft rolls IIRC. I'd use it up down low and / or as high as it would go then finish out withe 30 lbs felt if required. 

All I could fine on footage on I&W Shield was this , GRACE ICE & WATER SHIELD3FTX75FT 2.25SQ, so maybe just use it down low , you said valleys ?

   Are they / is it on the other side / not shown in your photos ? Or some thing your thinking of adding? Which may not be a good idea as it will be more weight not seen , nor consided by the Eng. you hired.
I also recommend style "D" flashing up the eave line and at the facia board .

  Style "D" flashing ,

   

  #4:    Yes bottom of post up to the floor / rim  joist  or any  beams , if there is one/ are any.  I'd use either 4x4 if there's a good clean way to attach them or PT 2x6 if it's easier / clear to cross block a joist bay and cross by the 2x6 to attach them . So it depends on exactly what you have to attach to , what might be in the way , etc . Just two ea. at each post . Or if your enclosing  the crawl area maybe a horizontal lower to the ground 4x4 post to post and a diagonal off that back to the post . So it's depends thing on exactly what to use . Any diagonal bracing will be better then none.   

[rakuz66]

Thanks for the advise Peg.  Yes , there's a small porch on the front that has 2 valleys.  It was there when the engineer looked at it, I'm not adding any dormers or anything.  BTW, my roof is 600 sq so I probably will just cover the whole thing w/ Ice/water shiled, thanks again!!

[PEG688]

 Your welcome. 

[Redoverfarm]

When speaking of Storm guard products make sure you are getting what you want.  There is two different types sold in this area.  One as I like to refer to as "similar to rolled roofing" . I believe this is "storm guard".  the better type is an elastic (rubber) type which self heals the nail holes  I believe this is "ice guard". IMO the ice guard is far more superior in construction , ease of use, and offers more protection.  But there is a price for that added protection over the storm guard . But the sense of security outweighs the cost in this circumstance.

It may be referring to Comp as composition shingles.

Just my $.02 worth

[PEG688]

#1: When speaking of Storm guard products make sure you are getting what you want.  There is two different types sold in this area.  One as I like to refer to as "similar to rolled roofing" . I believe this is "storm guard".  the better type is an elastic (rubber) type which self heals the nail holes  I believe this is "ice guard". IMO the ice guard is far more superior in construction , ease of use, and offers more protection.  But there is a price for that added protection over the storm guard . But the sense of security outweighs the cost in this circumstance.

#2: It may be referring to Comp as composition shingles.

  #1  Yes there are some new products out there that replace felt , the one we got sent with a kit house we did not use , to slippery for the roofer to stay on the roof .

I was  talking about the self sealing ice and water shield .

#2: Yes again comp = composition shingles / asphalt / some of which is also called three tab. I guess I figured everyone knew that. 

[rakuz66]

I checked out those storm guard products over the week-end and I do like the rubber membrane type (Grace) much better. I think I've finally decided on a plan for this roof.  Peg, I like your idea about stripping all the sheathing, (which is currently 1/2) and using 5/8.  It will be much stronger.  Since I'm ripping all the plywood, I'm only going to order and replace the butchered 8 trusses in which the previous owner cut the webbing out to vault the ceiling.   I'll keep the same pitch 5/12, so I can keep all the remaining good trusses over the bedrooms and order scissor trusses for the vaulted area.   I realize it will only vault it so much being 5/12,  but it will be better than having those beams I made right above your head.

[MikeT]

Regarding the roofing materials discussed here.  I have been very pleased with the Grace Ice and Water Shield.  On warm days, it can be hard to work with since it is so sticky, but there is a good side to that too.
On the shingles, I used Malarkey's 50 yr high wind rated shingles.  The term architectural shingle, I believe, refers to the style.  Three tab is the older more rectangular look to shingles.  Many folks, including me, are finding that the architectural shingle is easier to install because the more complex pattern gives you more flexibility in how they look (small "errors" aren't really as noticeable).  Here is a picture of the architectural shingle installed  (note: this was a cold weather install and the Black Jack still needed to be put underneath the shingles in this picture).



Best,
mt