Firstday Cottage

Started by Robert_Flowers, September 09, 2005, 01:36:36 PM

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Dustin

After working on Bill Sainden's house, I have seen the light when it comes to air nailers. It does save a lot of time. I am definitely going to be purchasing a pair! Home Depot has a special on 2 nailers and a compressor for $300.
I have seen first hand the damage nailguns can do- my boss wasn't careful and shot a nail right thru his finger bone. Not good. But nailguns, if treated with respect, can save a lot of time.
Did you also notice the extra-heavy "Katrina bolts" on the rafters?
Bill put those in even though David's plan doesn't say to.. I think I'll be putting some in, just in case.

Daddymem

#51
Got a link to the HD guns/compressor combo?  I don't even know where to begin when looking at these.  It looks like there are different types based on what job you are doing?  What do you use for framing for example?
My concerns arise from one of the houses I saw when visiting FD.  The nails penetrated the wood 1/10" or so so instead of seeing nail heads like John's house, you saw holes.  This isn't as important on stick built, but when you will be looking at these exposed structural memebers it becomes important.  I like the idea of the nail guns, I see Mommymem lending a hand more than with a hammer.  Can they be set easily to not penetrate through the wood?  I'd go to HD and ask these questions but rather get info from someone not trying to sell me something.
Où sont passées toutes nos nuits de rêve?
Aide-moi à les retrouver.
" I'm an engineer Cap'n, not a miracle worker"

http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/


Dustin

There are three main types of nailguns:
Framing (big nails)
Finish (smaller)
Brad (tiny)
 
You probably want one of each, but at least the first two.
You may want to go to HD, Lowes and Costco to see what's available and look at the quality. Obviously, buy the best quality tools you can afford.
You might see some deals this friday due to the Holiday.
You can also buy this stuff at amazon.com (pretty good prices too), and save money by not paying sales tax and shippping (anything over $25 is free shipping).
Look under:
 Tools & Hardware > Power Tools > Air Tools > Combo Packs


I suggested to David and John that they set up a First Day owner/builder Yahoo!Group, but haven't heard anything on that.

Dustin

You know, about those holes made with the air nailer ..... a little wood puttty and sandpaper does wonders, especially before you polyurethane the whole house (and you don't see any nails or nail holes then).

Daddymem

Thanks Dustin.  My thoughts exactly on the nail holes.  I was thinking you could even dress those joists up with some pegs.
Où sont passées toutes nos nuits de rêve?
Aide-moi à les retrouver.
" I'm an engineer Cap'n, not a miracle worker"

http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/


glenn kangiser

#55
Amanda's information is right on.  "Don't hold your hammer like an old woman", my uncle used to tell me-- use the handle that is what it's there for.  Meaning don't choke up on it.  Heavy ones may give you the problems Amanda mentioned.  If anyone is offended by my uncles statement, sorry - he's dead now so I can't make him rephrase it to be PC or anything - he'd probably just tell me to go do unmentionable things to myself if I tried to make him change it anyway. :-/  He was a great old guy.

I have a Porter Cable - it was one of the cheaper ones at Home Depot.  No problems through thousands of nails.  Keep fingers clear - mine has nailed 2 hands neither of which were mine.  The main problem is holding wood near the nailer - first one goes like you plan but you are not ready for the bounce which sends the next nail through your nearby hand -appendage -digit -dedo etc.

I'm an all purpose type nail guy - big and lots.  I like 10d galvanized ring shank nails 3" - they don't stain your wood--- think of the house Daddymem.

Not all nails interchange- I'm currently using Senco because that is what HD had that fit most guns.  I think code specifies full head nails - not clipped.  Paslode nails have a different angle.

1/4" x 1" crown staples work good for many things - also, 1" crown x 2" long staples can be used to do sheetrock - they work great and only leave a easily filled slot where they penetrate the sheetrock.  
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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williet

QuoteWife and I are still going back and forth between a 22' x 40' expanded Original and a 26'x 40' Salt Box.
The 22'x40' is more money, and the posts down the middle make kitchen planning wierd, but more room upstairs.
The Saltbox is perfect for us downstairs, but upstairs- I don't know if we want to squeeze 2 small bedrooms, a  master and a bath upstairs. We're getting a basement, so we figure we can migrate kids down to the basement when they get older (now 6, 3, and 3 months).... but they're too young to put downstairs now.
We also have a budget, and don't want to spend too much.
So, we're still figuring it out.
dustin
dustinhollis@cox.net



Would the 18" Original require a center post also? I'm very interested in the kits. I haven't seen any drawings of the "expanded" houses on the site so far. Do they intend to put some information out on them?

Daddymem

#57
I think John said they can do a 20' max without center posts, but I could be wrong.  I know the 18' does not have them.  You can proabably contact John for examples for the expanded ones.  If you can get there, you really have to go.  It is truly amazing when you see one of these beauties in person, they just scream "home".
Où sont passées toutes nos nuits de rêve?
Aide-moi à les retrouver.
" I'm an engineer Cap'n, not a miracle worker"

http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/

Chuck_Surette

#58
Daddymem is right on all counts.

I know the 18' does not use a post - but the rafters have to be beefed up to 12".  

Definately worth seeing one up close.

I guess where the expanded originals get tough, is moving the bigger built up beams & the larger rafters on the second floor.

When the houses get expanded out to 22-24' (like the cape) they use a post.


williet

Thanks guys,
I would like to get up there before we buy and I have e-mailed with John some. It will be a few months before we need to get the kit, so maybe we'll have time to actually see one.
We're thinking of buying a 18x40 Original Firstday and using it to build two ... 18x16 sections with a traditional framed 8' section in the middle. The middle would be set back 4' from the front to give the appearance of an ole fashoned dog trott. The "L" shaped stairs would be in this section. Still working on the complete plan, but I can't see any problems.
John said that the ceiling height on the lower floor can be raised to 8'6" or 9'. The 12" beams will require a higher ceiling. This will also decrease the floor to beam heigth on the upper level.
We are also planning a 16x18 single level addition that will "T" off the back of the house. This will be the kitchen, pantry and master bath.
The overall look will be similar to an 1840's Farmhouse.
Any thoughts???????

Chuck_Surette

Sounds good.

My buddies old cape is configured like that.

I've always liked it.

keyholefarmhouse(Guest)

Williet:

Sounds interesting, do or can you give us a diagram?

Howard

williet

Today, I e-mailed with John again. I think we will stick to the 16' X 40' Original. This will give us two 16' X 16' rooms on the first floor and an entrance hall of 8' X 16' (unless we decide to try a 2' set back for the front door). This set back will give the front of the house an appearance of a dog trot.  
I think we can achieve a look something like this.

williet

The floor plan similar to this unless we go with the 12' addition all across the back of the house.


williet

A chimeny on both ends with a wood burning fireplace in the living room and a Vermont castings stove in the bedroom. We will have either another stove in the kitchen corner (a potbelly) or a large picture window. The entrance hall will be framed to allow for an open ceiling and a wrought iron chandelier and have thin brick pavers as the floor. Primitive stairs with a water closet underneath.
We like the white washed walls with the stained beams.
Any suggestions ???  

keyholefarmhouse(Guest)

Williet:

If you can achieve this look it would at least look amazing.  The rock work for chiminey always adds oodles (key) for this rustic look.  I realize this is an expensive cosmetic thing but could be built with block and then dressed with cultered stone.  One side would be enough dressing.  The full length porch leans more to cabin than farmhouse as does the type siding you choose.  A 12x18 add on could also serve as the master bdrm.  Thus, opening up a bigger living area.  Also making a seperate stove for the add on less priority ($$$).  A dog trott setback looks cool but takes a lot of space and reconfigurating and added construction time and money.  White washed walls in greens, Blues, reds, with stained beams are a huge enhancment.  As are white painted ceilings (when they are the wood decking).

Very much like this design.

A good picture speaks a thousand words, and adds a lot of resale value.

Howard

John Raabe

#66
This design has some very interesting and universal features. It is easy to build and the 16' wide module needs no internal structure. It fits with the First Day system or could be easily framed conventionally (and be superinsulated).

Here is a modification set up for solar and light access to the cathedral ceiling area of the open Kitchen/Eating wing. That south wall could let light into this area and via the upper balcony area to the 2nd floor.

That puts the main entry on the north so, if needed that might become a view porch or patio and the entry could come in off the west porch.



Just one possible variation on these general plan ideas.

Looking at it a bit more... if the entry is on the west, then I think I would reverse the stair and start up in the hall nearer the entry. This allows a storage wall under the stair along the hall headed north.

Click here to download a larger image for printing.
http://www.countryplans.com/Downloads/16x36-frm-lg.jpg
None of us are as smart as all of us.

williet

Thanks for the replies. We are still working on the final plan, but the basic design will be much like this. John, I like the stairs in your drawing. Storage is always needed. The add on at the rear of the house will be used as a kitchen, eating area and pantry. We also want a large master bath and it seems to be the best fit for that. I'm trying to do this with the idea of our "living" on the first floor and the upper floor will be for the grandkids (when they visit).
The porch off the master bedroom and kitchen will be screened.
That's about it .....
Ideas are always welcome.

John Raabe

If you reverse the stair and use the lower Bdrm as the Mstr you can use the under stair area for the closets.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

williet

John,
We're thinking of a toilet and sink under the stairs. Do you think that'll work?


John Raabe

Yes, I think it will. You can do a little W.C. in 36" - more space is better but a standard stair width will work.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

Dustin

Wow! I have to say I really like that plan idea. I believe, with some slight tweaking, this is the plan for us. We have been agonizing about how to design around the shape of the standard firstday or firstday+saltbox design, and I finally think this is it.  I think I'd cut the downstairs bath area in half and turn one half into a mini mudroom area (nearest the outside wall) and the other half a small bath.
I think I'd make the top part 18'x24' and the bottom part 16'x36'. This comes out to 1720 sq ft, neatly within my budget range, plus I'll have a nice 1008' sq ft.  basement underneath to finish out later.

Now off to talk with David tomorrow about adapting it and getting a quote...


williet

Dustin,
If you do get a quote, please share it with me so I'll have an idea. Today, John said the basic kit would be around $28 Per sq. ft. I thought that was great.
I'll try to get to the sketch of what we're thinking on.  

Dustin

Yeah, I'll have to ask how they would count the square footage for the loft. I haven't seen any designs with a vaulted ceiling, so who knows? I really like the idea of having the vaulted ceilings in the kit/dining area.

Dustin

Just thought of something on my way to work today:

You'd need to rent a crane to get the rafters up over the portion of the house that it vaulted. (if you can think of another way, let me know, but the way we got the rafters up was by 2-3 of us standing on the 2nd floor)

Is there anything special we need to do to connect the two house segments together?

I'll find out when I talk to David, I guess. I'm not sure what his feeling is on vaulted portions.