14 x 24 Olympic Peninsula

[rdzone]

Your stairs look great.  I am going to have to keep referring to your pictures. I have been putting my stairs off for months as I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around the winder portion.   Any good tips that might save me some heartache and time? 

[considerations]

Any tips? Hmm, well.  I hired a guy to finish them because I couldn't seem to figure them out, but here's what I've deduced from the process.   

This place is 14' wide and the bottom of the ceiling joists are at 7'6".  The stud walls are 10'. This all has a bearing on where the stairs can go and how many steps it takes to get to the second floor.

I had to get the first set of risers to fit on a wall space between the front door and the bathroom wall. 
So if I'd placed the front door about 2 feet further away from the bathroom wall, making more outside wall space for the first set of risers, I would not have needed winders where the landing could have been.

As it is, when the front door opens to 90 degrees, the knob touches the post at the bottom of the stairs.  That doesn't sound very important until one tries to get an appliance or something through the door space, and the hinged edge of the door is in the way because it cannot be opened to 180 degrees. Dumb luck that I have another outside door which will open 180 degrees.

So tip one, give yourself enough feet of outside wall for the first set of risers or you may be facing both logistical and code problem.  I doubt the winders in my cabin are code from what I've read on this forum.  The riser heights and tread widths I ended up with are code, but not the winders, I think.  There has been some discussion on this forum about landings and winders which is much more clear on this subject there may even be some drawing/pictures.  Anyway, I wouldn't encourage using the pics I've posted as anything more than a concept for any stairs you might plan.

Second, because of the 10' wall height, it is possible to design oneself into a potential head banging situation depending on how high the landing is. If the landing is too high off the floor, a tall person could be ducking between the rafters to turn the corner.  Since I'm planning on drywalling the ceiling up there, ducking between rafters won't be an option.  Turns out there is sufficient headroom on these stairs.

Third, the top of the stairs on these stairs is exactly at the center of the cabin.  The roof is 12/12.  Because of the 10' walls and the 12/12 pitch and the 7'6" ceiling down stairs, it is just barely ok.  As it is, I  have to turn left or right as soon as I step off the top of the stairs, or I'll walk into the roof as it slopes down to the other side of the cabin. 

This was something I didn't think about at all when we were cussing and discussing where to place the stairs.  Originally, he had the second set of risers ending more than half way across the ceiling of the cabin, and I argued hard to make him move (accordian) that second set of risers back so that the top of the stairs was at the centerline of the cabin (7 feet from either wall).  I argued the point only because the bathroom door downstairs was going to end up crowding my ideas for the kitchen layout.  If I hadn't won that argument, the top of the stairs would have been problematic in that there would not have been room to step off the stairs without banging my head (which is less than 6' off the ground) into the roof of the opposite side of the cabin.  So I just got lucky. 

Frankly, I don't know how things would have turned out if the first floor ceiling had been 8'.  If I could do this all again, I'd seriously reconsider 12' stud walls on a 14 x 24.   I really did think about them, but decided on the 10' walls for various reasons, none of which included how to get stairs in.

I like the fact that the two posts at the top of the stairs are slotted at the top and fit around the roof beam.  I don't have collar ties up there, and because the ceiling joists were cut to make the opening for the stairs, I began to wonder about the walls wanting to spread in this area.  I think the posts supporting the roof beam will help to mitigate this.  However, they are a lot heavier than I imagined. I got to thinking about the floor, which had not been designed to manage this extra weight.  So, I got two big round cement pads and two cement piers with 4x4 holes in the top, and bought an 8' 6x6 PT piece of lumber.

I chiseled the ends of the 6x6 to fit into the sockets on the piers and cut it approximately in half.  This made two units of post and pier, each one was placed under the floor directly under those two posts that go all the way to the roof beam and bolted into the floor joists under the house.  So if the floor wants to sag from either the weight of the posts or the ceiling wanting to sag because of the ceiling joists not holding the walls together in the stairwell, it is less likely to occur.  I'll let you know in 25 years if this was overkill, but it made me feel more secure.

The fun part of all of this, however, is that under every step, except the bottom one are two pull-out drawers to take advantage of almost all of the "cubic feets" that are potentially lost under a stairs.  The space under the landing will be accessed by two bifold doors in the bathroom, and the space under the second set of risers is part of my kitchen pantry/storage.

I like the way they look too, and am pleased with the outcome, but some of it was good fortune, not good planning.  So, humbly, and with all the disclaimers emphasized, I hope this helps you.

[Jens]

If your ceiling height had been 8 feet, you would have needed 3 fewer risers, it usually ends up evening out.  I love the way they are looking.  I especially like the way the treads are let in to the stringers 3/4", and the corners have been lopped off, unique touches that clean up the 2x treads. 

As far as the 3/4 flooring goes, our house has been good for the last 80 years with only 3/4" t&g pine as sub and finish floor.  You do notice a bit of flex in the boards, but the joists are on 24" centers too.  They are pretty bouncy, but I think that is more because they are 2x8, 24" OC, spanning 11 feet.  When the dog scratches behind his ears, the floor bounces!  Gonna sister up to the joists to strengthen them.  It is up to you, whether you use subfloor or not.  I would use it, unless for the loft, or second floor and I wanted the underside exposed, but in that case, I would probably use 32" spacing, and 2x material.  Just my 2c worth.

[considerations]

"If your ceiling height had been 8 feet, you would have needed 3 fewer risers" 

I'll have to think about this.  If my ceiling is 7'6".....I'm thinking I'd would have 1 less riser than at 8'....hmmm.  Anyway, it's done and I can run up and down them now as much as I want.   

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"I especially like the way the treads are let in to the stringers 3/4", and the corners have been lopped off, unique touches that clean up the 2x treads."

I can't take any credit for that workmanship, except as a "director".  The guy I hired did it all, and I'm glad he put up with my 60 gazillion questions during the process.  He earned his pay.

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2 x 6 t&g for the loft floor is what I'm planning.  Got lots of practice on the first floor, don't want to waste the one area of OJT I get a chance to repeat.  Every step in this project has been "going where this woman's never gone before". 

Starting March my hours get cut, and of course, correspondingly, the wages.  So more time for sweat equity and less money to do it with.  I have my fingers crossed.  Silly me, I thought I'd be done by now......yep, just silly.

[Windpower]

"Has it been gouged up much during construction or gotten any water damage?"

No water damage thanks to the dire warnings about how and why to protect it from the members of this forum."


Why do you need to protect it from the members of this forum ?

Is there something I should know about the members of this forum....





jk





great looking project

I like the pine(?) poles with the bark peeled off -- are they finished with Varathane of something ?

[considerations]

"Why do you need to protect it from the members of this forum ?

Is there something I should know about the members of this forum...."

I had to think about how to answer this as I threw the horses over the fence some hay.   

The short answer is yes.  As for specifics, hang in there, it will come to you. 

[Redoverfarm]

I had to think about how to answer this as I threw the horses over the fence some hay.   

Been on the West Coast toooooo long.

[considerations]

Oh, Redover....Having had a chance to explore a goodly portion of this wonderful continent, I'm pretty sure this is where I need to be....I fit.   There are lots of really beautiful places elsewhere, but...the combination of climate, wildness, the people...its all good.  I guess it is like that for a lot of people, they get intwined with an area in ways that make other settings seem interesting, but not "home". 

[considerations]

"I like the pine(?) poles with the bark peeled off -- are they finished with Varathane of something ?"

Whoops, sorry, forgot to address this.  They are cedar, the bark is peeled off, but they don't know they are dead yet, so they are still full of moisture.  I haven't put any finish on them, because I think they should be drier before I do that. 

So far, all I have done to them is wipe them down with a solution of bleach diluted in water because they started growing things, fuzzy grey fur to be exact.  I will put something on them at some point, but not just yet. 

I'd like them to stay that reddish gold color and cedar will age to grey over time if not coated with something. 

[Redoverfarm]

CF I noticed that in one of the pictures that the bark is still on the top of one of the post.  I think I would take it off while there is still moisture between the two layers.  If not it will be hard to take off later.  If you have a draw knife it works best. If not just a hatchet will work by slipping it under the bark then using a hammer to the hatchet it should just work under and to the top. 

[Jens]

yeah, I thought you had said that your ceiling was 10'   I think cedar stays pretty natural in color if kept out of UV rays.

[PEG688]

 Hummm we either need reading lessons or glasses or better writing skills , I'm leaning toward the better reading , or more careful reading of the posts. 

  NOT those POSTS for people who may think I'm referring to the Cedar ones

  Considerations remember to focus on how much it rains and how it's ALWAYS cloudy every day. You need to be more honest with folks about that or more may try to move here. Focus on that daily never ending rain in the future.


On those post , yes this time the Cedar ones. I'd seriously consider applying  a oil or maybe some Shellac to slow down the drying process to maybe reduce the amount of checking they will do, not eliminate it but hopefully reduce the depth and width of said checking. And NOT the checking you do at the bank for those speed readers eh

Maybe Benite , maybe the Shellac the beauty of the Shellac would be the ability to wipe down the posts with alcohol to remove the product. The Benite would over time , say  6 months or a year would be pretty much gone as well .

But left raw they will , especially once the wood stove is going more often , (to drive out the chill from the daily rain ,    )will dry those posts to quickly and you will get some radical checking.


It's coming right along for a part time , never built a building before.

On the over the horse throw him some hay , are you a French speaking person? I know back in R.I. where I'm from , when I was a kid , the older , mainly French speaking  adults who learned some English could really inject words out of order.   A "Up the stairs you throw me my hat",  "We park the cars side by each" , and a few other mixed up ways that French nouns , adverbs are placed in a sentence played hell with the local language mix. Sort of  a Eng-ench language.

At work we have Mexican laborer who says he speaks fluent Spang-lish 

So are you from back east or from up north in the  French Canadian sections of Canada? Or was it just a fun way to mix up the other poster??


 
 

[PEG688]

 Oh ya and remember to mention ALL  the rain we get , daily , if not more often.  The rain that is , not to mention it more often but thats not a bad idea either really 

[glenn kangiser]

Hey,  PEG's from Washington and he's a fun guy.

[considerations]

"So are you from back east or from up north in the  French Canadian?"

No - but Windpower caught me using some backa--wards grammar.  When I went back and looked it was clear that I was not clear.....(oops did it again).  Anyway the crack about throwing the horses over the fence was just acknowledgment that he was right. (Dad taught English, I know better).

I'm a 12th generation American, a true Heinz 57.  Redover's right about the West Coast, I was born and raised on it. 

And, oh yeah - it rains way too much here, a veritable mud hole, moss for lawns instead of grass, frogs in my well and on the window glass.  Slugs, a regular zoo of slugs,  banana slugs, brown ones and then, before I forget, the infamous Olympic racing slug.  Black as good licorice and moves like greased...well um ok they're really fast as slugs go. 

All around is trees trees and more trees, everywhere you look. Can't see through them. Cant hardly walk through them, cause the ground under them is covered man high with ferns and salmonberries and huckleberries and salal and waitaminutes and hea--- knows what else!

Oh and spiders, lots of them and misquitoes and bats.  Then there are the cougars and the bears and bobcats and coyotes.  Oh and mountain beavers, gotta really watch out for them being host to the world's biggest flea and all.

Infernal amount of birds. Great flocks of little tiny ones, always looking for a handout at the feeders.  Those frenetic rodney dangerfield quail, how i WISH they would just settle down. The stellar bandit bluejays come in imitating hawks to scare the little ones off the feeders.  They've got their nerve.  I wouldn't want to leave out the hawks, owls and eagles.  They always out hunting and ambushing little furry things.  Oh yeah and there are these wood peckers, they are big, big as chickens and have this absolutely maniacal laugh, makes your hair stand up.

Then there is that great smelly ocean. That salt water makes "things" grow in the sand.  Yep right there in the sand, little creatures with shells that squirt water at you, just step close and whoosh, up these little jets come, get your pant legs wet.  There are bizarre creatures that crawl and swim in the tide pools, and squishy things that look like flowers till you touch them and then they curl up in to little green balls of goo.  Not to mention the red and  green slimy leaves of "stuff" that floats around in the waves on the beach.  And the trees, the great logs  that come crashing up onto the beaches during a storm and get stranded in great piles. So inconvienent to crawl over.  And bones, great big mammoth bones and tusks, just left sticking out of the bluffs. I don't know how they could be so messy, leaving those things just lying around.

The fog comes in thick and the ship's horns moan across the straits. Keeps me up at night.  Then there are the Canadian geese, honking and whooshing in great squadrons overhead. 

Boots are a must, as is a mudroom which is used liberally and literally.

The sun is a shock when unfettered by clouds. It boils down on tender human hides. You can't even break a sweat working outside between September and July.   

Greenhouses are really green if you don't powerwash the mold off every year. 

And yes, of course, the rain.  We probably get about 45 inches a year, which doesn't seem an extraordinary amount....unless it drizzles for 2 dark weeks for a 1/2" to be recorded...takes a long time to accumulate 45" when its only kinda sorta raining.  The Inuit have about 50 names for different kinds of snow.  We have the same expanded repetoire for ways to describe precipitation.  I'll spare you.

The only folks out here are plain old rednecks, work with their hands, go to church, protect their own.  I just dont' see how the box stores and the urban growth boundaries will ever get out here with all the opposition.   

People who live in Sequim call the "west end" of the Olympic Peninsula "demographically undesireable".  They are right, abosolutely, bad place to hunker down, really have to work at it, get your hands dirty, break the occasional fingernail.


How'mi doing PEG? 


Ok, I'll oil the posts, or something.  I do not want them to check.  I do have a drawknife or two, and I'm working on the last of the bark.

[glenn kangiser]

Hey,  PEG's from Washington and he's a fun guy.

For Sassy,   a fungi - get it? hmm

[PEG688]

Hey,  PEG's from Washington and he's a fun guy.

For Sassy,   a fungi - get it? hmm

Oh brother        Don't quit your day job there kid 


 

[PEG688]

The flip side of that is maybe your audience ( that would be us-ins) is to stew------pit to get your stellar jokes    

Maybe my brains rusted from all this rain     

[glenn kangiser]

Sorry bout that, PEG.



...and I thought Sassy was the only one that didn't get the punch line...

[PEG688]

...and I thought Sassy was the only one that didn't get the punch line...

We may never know how many missed it, maybe a poll?  But yanno when you have to explain a joke , to anyone , it may have been either not funny at all , or to cryptic.

Or the to stew-pit part     

[considerations]

"Maybe my brains rusted from all this rain"  

More rain coming.  I think our last sunny day for a while was today PEG.  At least I found the leaks in the water line before it started raining again (yup, there were two).  

Looking for a leak in a water line is impossible when it's raining.  

[glenn kangiser]

Crimoney, PEG.  I thought I was just deep...

[Dog]

Then there is that great smelly ocean. That salt water makes "things" grow in the sand.  Yep right there in the sand, little creatures with shells that squirt water at you, just step close and whoosh, up these little jets come, get your pant legs wet.  There are bizarre creatures that crawl and swim in the tide pools, and squishy things that look like flowers till you touch them and then they curl up in to little green balls of goo.  Not to mention the red and  green slimy leaves of "stuff" that floats around in the waves on the beach.  And the trees, the great logs  that come crashing up onto the beaches during a storm and get stranded in great piles. So inconvienent to crawl over.  And bones, great big mammoth bones and tusks, just left sticking out of the bluffs. I don't know how they could be so messy, leaving those things just lying around.






Considerations...you are quite the creative writer! That was great!

[considerations]

Writing for fun and writing for a living are worlds apart....that was pure fun.  And I don't lie well, I do love it here.

[considerations]

Let there be light! 



Now I can start the upstairs flooring!  Yup, it snowed again last night.  This has been the snowiest winter here since 2000.  Fascinating.