The Twilight of Irredeemable Debt

Sassy · May 28, 2008, 12:53:51 AM

Good article on what's happening to the economy...
http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/global_banking/the_twilight_of_irredeemable_debt_2008050890/

desdawg · May 28, 2008, 07:11:08 AM

Sounds like the lure of the free lunch. There aren't any. Debt that doesn't have to be repaid. I have personally been extended more credit since things tightened up than ever before. Since I failed to get a subprime mortgage the lenders want me to be involved somehow. Most of it will end up being real expensive credit should I choose to use it for any extended period. Meanwhile I am making it available to myself should I need it. Sometimes when investing in real estate a window of opportunity opens and closes rather quickly so it is good to have the flexibility to pounce if the need arises. I have juggled teaser rates for years, and always managed to replace one with another when the expiration date for the teaser rate came around. I keep hoping it is not Russian Roullette and that one day the inevitable loaded chamber will fall under the hammer. Unlike government however I realize that it must ultimately be repaid and that it must produce the income necessary for that repayment. It is not to be frittered away on non-income producing items (i.e. a war on foreign soil) and as the author says it needs to increase GDP to be valid. I saw on the tele yesterday a person who stated that when Busche took office there was a $5 trillon surplus, today there is an $8 trillion deficit. I don't know how true that is but given the events of the last few years I could envision it being a fact. The person speaking was a Hillary Clinton supporter thus the proverbial grain of salt. Numbers of that magnitude boggle my little mind and I have not a clue how they are measured or calculated. I just try to figure out how to keep both oars in the water and paddle my own canoe.

May 28, 2008, 07:59:15 AM

Quote from: desdawg on May 28, 2008, 07:11:08 AM
Sounds like the lure of the free lunch. There aren't any. Debt that doesn't have to be repaid. I have personally been extended more credit since things tightened up than ever before. Since I failed to get a subprime mortgage the lenders want me to be involved somehow. Most of it will end up being real expensive credit should I choose to use it for any extended period. Meanwhile I am making it available to myself should I need it. Sometimes when investing in real estate a window of opportunity opens and closes rather quickly so it is good to have the flexibility to pounce if the need arises. I have juggled teaser rates for years, and always managed to replace one with another when the expiration date for the teaser rate came around. I keep hoping it is not Russian Roullette and that one day the inevitable loaded chamber will fall under the hammer. Unlike government however I realize that it must ultimately be repaid and that it must produce the income necessary for that repayment. It is not to be frittered away on non-income producing items (i.e. a war on foreign soil) and as the author says it needs to increase GDP to be valid. I saw on the tele yesterday a person who stated that when Busche took office there was a $5 trillon surplus, today there is an $8 trillion deficit. I don't know how true that is but given the events of the last few years I could envision it being a fact. The person speaking was a Hillary Clinton supporter thus the proverbial grain of salt. Numbers of that magnitude boggle my little mind and I have not a clue how they are measured or calculated. I just try to figure out how to keep both oars in the water and paddle my own canoe.

Like you Des, I get mote offers for credit than ever before. I keep remembering my Grandfather talk about the depression....Credit Ruins People!

I'll continue to pass on it. If need be, I can write a check for any property that may slip away quickly. I'm getting real nervous about the economy now. Too many elements of the perfect storm are showing up.

glenn kangiser · May 28, 2008, 09:37:35 AM

QuoteNumbers of that magnitude boggle my little mind and I have not a clue how they are measured or calculated.

You are not alone, des. Our politicians and the criminals holding our highest government offices don't even have a clue what those numbers mean, except for the portion of it they manage to stuff in their own pockets.

benevolance · May 28, 2008, 11:35:43 AM

heavy reading for a simple man like me...

Basically the fed and the government have created their own rules to float a dollar that else would have collapsed a long time ago otherwise...

Sort of like when they print money.... but because the world trades oil in US dollars... no matter how much debt or how much they print (devaluing the dollar)...Because OPEC and most of the world uses the currency to buy and sell oil...It value is safeguarded from the free market economy...

High gas and food prices hurt... I thank my lucky stars daily that we are not deep in debt... That we are ready to survive when the dollar collapses and the economy has to start over again from scratch

May 28, 2008, 02:51:40 PM

The people running the government don't care if it collapses so long as they can A. Blame it one someone else. or B. Delay the collapse until they leave office. If you knew you could spend all the money you wanted and then hand the bill to someone else in a few years would you care? At the rate things are going our kids are doomed to a life of near total tax slavery.

benevolance · May 28, 2008, 05:20:51 PM

Scott

well there is no fear... they can just stop using the US greenback and switch to the Amero...And get all of their debt forgiven...I am thinking that is one of their real plans

Then they can start this process/ cycle all over again

glenn kangiser · May 28, 2008, 07:24:11 PM

That has been stated as one of their plans -- who knows. Trash the economy then bail out.

A Navy vet (who got screwed over in a deal with the Bush cabal) said that when daddy Bush wanted something to fail for him to profit from it, he put the shrub in charge. I wondered about 8 years or so ago when I read it -- sour grapes? but it appears he was right on.

desdawg · May 29, 2008, 11:57:43 PM

We have this great Texas oilman holding the highest office in the land. He has old Ben tweaking the interest rate to try to control the shifts in the US economy or orders another printing of paper bills. Yet the most inflationary thing going on is ignored and that would be the soaring cost of gas & diesel fuel. We have a dollar store here that is now a buck-twenty five store due to freight costs. A local filling station that I passed today posted diesel at $5.15/gallon. I think commercial trucks pay an additional 8 cents on top of that. They probably all did that was just the one that I noticed. I keep waiting to hear news that an upstart Robin Hood militant group has taken over a refinery somewhere. I think it is just a matter of time and I for one won't be shocked when and if it happens. I know from preious posts that many of you can't percieve that as a possibility. I would bet many independent truckers will be put out of business. Small farm operations won't be able to run their tractors. I can conjur up a lot of scenarios where something like that could occur with organizations that already exist. It would be a bold move but I think it's not inconceivable. For one sector of the business community to hold so much power over the well being of so many citizens has all the makings of disaster IMO.

May 30, 2008, 12:50:08 AM

You have to remember that we are just useless eater breeding machines and they don't really give a rip.

We made the garden bigger this year.

I was a trucker for about 5 years - long haul. I look for them to get their fill soon -- then the rest of the people can begin to wake up.

benevolance · May 30, 2008, 02:04:20 AM

i do not know how the truckers stay in business...

The whole trucking thing is so ridiculous anyways... Freight is shipped more efficiently by rail or plane or Boat... Trucks are best for local deliveries...

It is cheaper to move goods uses less fuel better for the environment...and yet in America we push long haul trucking... I guess it is some kind of make work project or something.

desdawg · May 30, 2008, 07:52:29 AM

The thing is Peter no matter which mode of transportation is used they are all sucking down the diesel fuel and we are all paying more for everything from a loaf of bread to a pair of socks. It is driving the economy and fueling inflation right now and we are stuck in this situation and can't get out. Our government is still socking away X number of barrels a month in a reserve hole in the ground somewhere. Some of the people in Congress said it would be prudent for the government to back off of that for a while to help slow the demand which would help out prices and the White House said no to that. I saw an article in the paper a while back about this but I don't remember all of the specific details. The truth is we are being played and manipulated for oil company profits as this pork barrel special interest crap continues to play out.

benevolance · May 30, 2008, 12:05:39 PM

I know everything uses fuel Des

But a train uses less fuel per ton than a single long haul truck...I remember reading about it many years ago...talked about how thousands of trucks can be replaced with one train hauling the same amount of cargo....Less manpower used to load it and unload it if it is loaded and unloaded in a central location (railyard)... and it will still be trucked... only locally from warehouses in the railyard to local stores or whatever.

They do not move freight by long haul truck in Europe... they use the train and container ships....We need to do the same here in America

glenn kangiser · May 30, 2008, 12:47:21 PM

Quote from: desdawg on May 30, 2008, 07:52:29 AM
The thing is Peter no matter which mode of transportation is used they are all sucking down the diesel fuel and we are all paying more for everything from a loaf of bread to a pair of socks. It is driving the economy and fueling inflation right now and we are stuck in this situation and can't get out. Our government is still socking away X number of barrels a month in a reserve hole in the ground somewhere. Some of the people in Congress said it would be prudent for the government to back off of that for a while to help slow the demand which would help out prices and the White House said no to that. I saw an article in the paper a while back about this but I don't remember all of the specific details. The truth is we are being played and manipulated for oil company profits as this pork barrel special interest crap continues to play out.

That socking away oil is not for us. It is so our top criminals holding office can find their way to heaven with the blessing of Israel at the expense of the taxpayer.

Yes -- we are storing that oil for Israel. They have first dibs on it.

QuoteAs a result of the oil embargo the United States created the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) to "insulate Israel and the U.S. against the wielding of a future Arab 'oil weapon'." The billion-barrel SPR has cost U.S. taxpayers $134 billion to date. According to an Oil Supply Guarantee, which former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger provided Israel in 1975, Israel gets 'first call' on any oil available to the U.S. if Israel's oil supply is stopped.

http://www.rense.com/general41/trill.htm Read it here and somewhere else too -- didn't find the other article yet.

June 01, 2008, 08:29:45 AM

I wonder how much could be saved by simply going back through old laws and antiquated actions taken at all levels of government and bringing them current.Once these things hit the books they seem to be lost forever. Government lacks efficiency even when current. Henry Kissinger hasn't been around for a long time.

glenn kangiser · June 01, 2008, 03:18:04 PM

This law is silently updated and approved every 5 years- can't mess up the chances of our politicians going to heaven.

desdawg · June 03, 2008, 08:12:53 AM

Silently updated? It is time to make some noise. Commodity traders base their bids on demand as I understand it (which I don't really) and this keeps the demand up there artificially higher than it needs to be.
It is high time we start taking care of our own problems. Any measure that is presented to Congress should included a definition of the Proposal, cost of the Proposal and where that funding is to come from. Enough with the do-gooders and there never ending attitudes that it will just come from somewhere. We are the somewhere. Accountability is way overdue.
The problem is we are sitting out here in the hinterlands of rural America with no voice that can be heard except by each other.

ScottA · June 03, 2008, 12:54:49 PM

I read somewhere recently that they are using all this cheap (2%) money the fed is loaning out right now to run up the price of oil. So it seems they are using our own money (freshly printed) to strangle us with.

glenn kangiser · June 03, 2008, 08:45:53 PM

Now you are catching on, Scott. Congress is in on it too desdawg. Who will straighten things out?

-- they just act like they are doing things because you and others are frustrated -- they don't give a rat's a$$.

They and their insider deals are laughing all the way to the bank. You tried the vote -- democratic Congress promised you things and got in there then Pelosi said impeachment wasn't an option and it's business as usual. They just tell you what you want to hear to make you leave them alone and make you feel they are concerned about your problems, then do what they want --- kind of a passive agressive thing...

desdawg · June 03, 2008, 10:32:03 PM

If they want to make me feel good they need to solve some problems. I heard Obama tonight ranting along saying nothing. He has all the makings of a great politician. Speaks in generalities without saying much of any substance. I guess it's him or McCain and I am not thrilled with either prospect. McCain has been hanging out with George W. too long for me to be comfortable. He would really have to break the mold.

June 04, 2008, 01:24:58 AM

Clearly there are no choices again. The puppetmasters behind the curtain have made the choices they can work with.

Either a Muslim or another corporate soiled war monger.

Sassy · June 05, 2008, 12:10:07 AM

The Daily Reckoning had a good article today @ http://www.dailyreckoning.com/
"Big Ben's Loose Lips"

Sassy · June 07, 2008, 03:53:47 PM

Interesting quote from Ben Bernanke...

Bernanke is particularly interested in the economic and political causes of the Great Depression, on which he has written extensively. On Milton Friedman's ninetieth birthday, November 8, 2002, he stated: "Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve System. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again."[9][10][11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernanke