20 x 30 w/full loft Tanglewood Lake, KS

[deabob11]

Hello, I hope this project helps someone.
To my family friends... Hopefully everything runs smoothly and safely.
Thanks for helping out!!!
I will add pictures of the lot and progress as I go.  
I have read many forums and looked over and over for ideas for what I wanted to do.  I would like to thank others for posting their project it really helps!
We purchased the 20 x 30 w/loft plan.
The plan is to build the frame before the end of December-07 (we will see how that goes) working weekends only.
We are getting our permits 9/21/07, lets see what happens.  County Reg's are nonexistent, they just wanted $200 to build a rural structure, WOOHOO.  However, our Lake owners association must approve our plans before we can build.
We are clearing the lot this weekend and hope to start the foundation the following weekend.  
we will be using a post and pier foundation and hand digging the 12 holes  :' (ouch) 24" x 24" x 30"!

Here is where i could use a little help :-/.  We were a little confused about where to use concrete or if we had to use any at all.  Gravel is cheap, cheap, cheap, $5 a ton.  Our plan is to put about 12" of gravel at the base of the hole, nail a 2"x10" to the bottom of a 6"x6" that has been painted with roofing tar and place it on the gravel.  Once they are all set we will fill the rest of the hole with gravel (do i need to add any cement to this gravel?) and then put about 2" of concrete on top of the gravel to try and keep out some rain (cap).  Any thoughts??? will this work for supporting the weight of the house???  Thanks for any help.  
Kansas has tornado, but that will flatten anything.
Kansas does have strong winds!
Frost line in KS is 30", but i think where we are building the record was 24".
The soils are mostly clay/silt over bedrock.  
We may hit solid bedrock before we get to 30".

[jraabe]

For longevity on the posts and footer plate use "foundation grade" PT wood and protect (roofing tar is good) the 12" or so above and below the final soil line. You 24x24 crushed rock footing should be fine (don't use pit run round river gravel). I do not suggest embedding piers in concrete close to the surface. This only holds the moisture where rot can happen. You could add a ring of concrete (with four lag screws into the pier) and fill the hole within 12" or so of the surface. Fill the rest with gravel (this could be cheaper gravel as long as it drains). This will tend to give you a stiffer pier and more anchorage against uplift.

Do the best you can to drain site water away from the foundation piers.

Best wishes on the project.

[glenn-k]

Looks nice.  

You can post more pictures easier if you put them on Photobucket then post the IMG  link here.

Here are instructions.

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1115032671

[deabob11]

lot is clear... I can't seem to post a good picture.
We started digging some holes, but were overwhelmed by rocks.  
We had to have someone with a rock breaker come in and split some rocks.  $300 well spent, but unexpected.  The holes still need to be clear out.  We have our permits and are going to try and set the post this Sat 9/29/07.  16 tons of gravel cost $210 dropped on the lot.
C:\Users\spud\Pictures\of=50,590,442.jpg
we are looking at $1200 so far into the project, permits, plans, labor, and all.

[deabob11]

picture

[deabob11]

WOOHOO! Lumber is coming friday and we think we are ready.
dug 12 holes by hand to about 30" deep or until we hit solid rock.  Some of the hole only go down about 12" others go down into clay 36".   Some are half limestone bedrock and half hole, but we did our best to clear out what we could.  Rocks everywhere!  unfortunately because of some piss poor measuring the holes were not quite centered and some of the concrete tubes are on the outer 2" of the hole and not right in the center?   :-?
for each hole we mixed a 80lb bag of concrete by hand (in the walmart tub pictured).  then we added a 12" rebar X (cut with 36in bolt cutters) and added another bag of concrete.   we placed the tube and back filled with gravel keeping the tubes level.  Added our 2' rebar to the tube and toped with concrete.  it took me and my brother in law (and his wife) 8 hours to finish 12 hole.  we ended up using all the rebar and 3200lbs of hand mixed concrete.  we are going back to install the 6x6 posts Monday 10/1.  
Gravel - $200
Concrete -$180 (about 320lbs a hole)
12 simpson 6x6 post to concrete with j-bolts - $180
7 tubes - $69
rebar -$50
Rock breaker $300
misc supplies $100
and a lot of back breaking labor...
I hope these post and peir hold the house!  Some of these holes were a bit sketchy! :'(

[deabob11]

still trying to figure out pictures postings
too many people said that 6x6 posts straight into the ground will rot and be tought to replace in 20 yrs, so we did change at the last second and pour concrete tubes... I should have done 12" tubes for every hole, but i only used them in shallow holes.  

[MarkAndDebbie]

Good work. The most impressive thing in your post - you cut your rebar with bolt cutters . If you have to cut any more you may want to get a grindoff blade for your circular saw.

[MountainDon]

Using a metal cutting abrasive wheel/blade works well, and remember once its cut part way they can usually be broken off. Leaves a rougher end to impale yourself on.  :-/

[deabob11]

 i have some very tall 6x6 posts because of the slope of the land (up to 64" tall).   the post on the high side of the land is only 5".  
Do i need to brace the tall posts?  
I am using simpson T ties to connect the post to the beam and 2X connecters at the corners.  
Lumber is coming friday.
cutting rebar was a breeze, just put the rebar in the 36" bolt cutters and leaned against the ground.
thanks for the help!

[glenn-k]

I've seen very tall ones around here but -- yes -- they do have bracing -- to me the bracing on the local ones here is inadequate, but what do I know -- they're still standing.

[jraabe]

Yes, bracing is suggested for taller piers - diagonal or "X" bracing. Think like an earthquake... the "X" braces will work in compression and then in tension and then switch as the house moves back and forth. Make sure your connections can handle both.

I agree with Glenn, the house above is not well enough braced for high wind and/or earthquake country.

[glenn-k]

I guess we are zone 3 - some how it was grandfathered in and is part of a rental cabin complex.  Also the cafe there has rough sawn functioning trusses -  probably 24' wide from --- - GASP  --- SHUDDER --- unstamped local lumber.  OMG --- the sky is falling.

Sorry 'bout that---    slap -- slap -- Glenn -- get ahold of yourself.  

Everyone knows that can't possibly work because they didn't pay off the grader/stamper guy, and of course we don't have master builders who would know a bad board when they see it anymore.  Shut up already, Glenn.

[deabob11]

all help has been great, the walls are up!  However, i   up...
HELP
my walls are a little off.
 I made one wall east to west 16 oc and the other west to east 16oc, so the studs are about 5.5" off across the room.  
(just to make sure this makes sense, if i stand on my far 30' wall and look across at the far 30' wall the studs are about 5.5" off to the left)
I cut a pocket for a 2x6 to support the loft floor joists.  will it matter if i build the loft floor and the jiosts for the loft are resting in the middle of the 2x6 instead of right next to a stud?
Will it matter if the rafters sit about 6" off of a stud?
My options are to use a triple top plate to strengthen and reduce sag from the roof weight.  And to use simpson ties that look like a diamond with a stop to hold a 2X for the floor jiosts.  We go back to work friday.
do i have to tear down the wall?
do i have to add extra studs at the same 16oc as the far wall?
Thanks for any help or thoughts.
I will post a picutre tonight.

[deabob11]

here are some late pictures.  The foundation beams being built.

[deabob11]

we busted our buts and finished the floors just before dark.  So far Land clearing was about 2 days by hand.  Three days on the foundation (digging holes, by hand) missing the marks and redigging.  One day setting the posts and getting them level.  One and a half days of setting the beams and floor joists.  
 This work has been mainly been done by two people (my brother and I).
My brother-in-law and his wife helped with the cement when my brother could not make it.  
Right now we are looking at about 7.5 full days of work for two people.  This is going a little slower than i would have liked but we are progressing!
Here is my brother, mike, after a hard days work!

[deabob11]

Going onto 8.5 days of work.  We got the floor done and one wall raised.  We are doing 2x10 walls with a full sleeping loft and a ladder.  
The pocket is cut for a 2x6 to support the 2x12 loft joists.  We built this wall in 10' sections and left 32" of OSB hanging to support the next wall.  We decided to not put any windows in the back wall to start (the goal is water tight as fast as possible).
the thought is to maybe put in stairs at a later time.  Our goal now is just to make this cabin waterproof.   Go to the prodesk at home-depot and ask for a bid... they give a pretty good price break!

[deabob11]

moving right along.  The calvery arrives and we finished the remaining 3 walls and 80% of the OSB sheathing.  We put a double top plate on the walls.   There is still a good amout of play in the walls.  Hopefully that will tighten up when we finish the OSB this weekend.  THANKS TO RON AND DAN for helping us get this project up.  Having 4 people working we would have had this house done in a couple of days!  We are now on day 9.5.   This weekend we plan on installing the loft and hopfully getting the ridge beam up... i almost make myslef laugh.  hopefully we at least get the loft floor done this weekend!  Rain is also predicted for both sat Oct 12 2007 and sunday.  

[deabob11]

Loft is in and the ridge beam.  the biggest problem with the loft was that we had a crappy 2x12x20 that cracked in almost in half at near 2 knots.  We didn't see it when we installed it, but it dropped about 1" from the crack.   The crack goes from the bottom up at an angle to about within 5" from the top of the board.  We still finished everything and are going to go back later and and just double that joist.  For now we just mended it with a 2x6.  You can see the top of the 2x6 in the picture.
we finished the loft, floor, sheathing, and ridge beam in one day.  
That puts this project at about 10.5 days (2 guys)

[deabob11]

another day of hard work and we cut and installed the rafters.  Then we started on the decking.  then just because we were having such a productive weekend.  The nail gun starts jamming.  While playing with the nail gun we realize that the air compressor is still running.  The thing overheated and crapped out.  I would not recommend the 8 gallon harbor freight compressor to anyone.  Either way we had to cut this day short and wasted a bunch of time trying to fix our gun.
I dropped the height of the loft to 8' hopeing to make it safer to roof.  We finished about half of the decking on the back and fell behind.  11.5 days into the project.

[deabob11]

12.5 days into the project and we are looking for roofers.  We finished teh decking and decided that w/o any safety tools that we would just pay someone to do the shingling for us.  We are still very please with what we have done so far.  After 3 or 4 days of picking saw dust out of his eyes my brother has finally choose to start wearing safety goggles!
house wrap goes on saturday and then i can relax and stop thinking about all the rain we have been getting.  So far the rain has only ruined one piece of decking under were the stairs will be, so i think we are going to just leave it.  The 3-ply is missing 1/2 of the center ply, so the water caused it to get really wavey.  Oh well...

[MaineRhino]

Looks great! We're doing our roof this coming weekend, and suddenly all our friends are busy!
   

MaineRhino

[deabob11]

well the days have really blurred together...
I think we have put over 400 man hours of labor (including a 3hr round trip drive each day... ouch)  Maybe it is closer to 300 w/o the drive, but we have made it a long way.  I would have liked to post more picture, but have not had the time.
floors, sheathing, windows (some), doors, roof ($800) all quickly coming along.
i think the total project is 13,000 for the shell with no interior walls.  
I would post more pictures if there was an easier way.
Great plan!  It is really starting to come together.

[deabob11]

here is the front... picked up some barrels for $6 a piece from the guy next door.
framing B+ =a few flaws a little wasted wood and siding, but all in all it looks good.  
Windows, doors, headers C-  = cut a header too short, i should have read the instructions on installing windows and doors instead of just winging it.  the siding comes over one door and there is a 2" gap above the other door.  I will have to do some work to make it look nice and not leak.
Siding B = some of the hardie board does not line up with studs so the nails are just into the sheathing.  So there are 1/2 gaps between some boards, but that will be covered by the trim.  I also ordered too little siding because i forgot to take into account the 4.5" for the plates in the walls.

[MountainDon]

I would post more pictures if there was an easier way.

For my money, the easiest way to post pictures is to start with opening a free account at photobucket.com. You then upload your images there; make different folders for topics etc. Once uploaded you see a good sized thumbnail of each image. There are 4 links under each inage. Click on the bottom link, the IMG. When you click on that it is automatically copied. Then switch over to the window you have countryplans.com open in. Start your message. Position the cursor where the picture should appear. Paste the copied link there. That's it.