T&G pine paneling questions

[beckhamk]

In the next few months we will start working on putting up our panelling which will be T&G pine.  I wanted to ask a few questions.

1) For walls and cathedral ceilings do we start at the bottom and work our way up or is it top -> down?

2) what size nailer should we be using for 3/4 t&g and are we nailing through the face of the board or through the tonges?

3) As for staining or poly - should we be putting that on before installing or install then stain/poly?


Thanks,
Kyle

[OlJarhead]

In the next few months we will start working on putting up our panelling which will be T&G pine.  I wanted to ask a few questions.

1) For walls and cathedral ceilings do we start at the bottom and work our way up or is it top -> down?

2) what size nailer should we be using for 3/4 t&g and are we nailing through the face of the board or through the tonges?

3) As for staining or poly - should we be putting that on before installing or install then stain/poly?


Thanks,
Kyle

1.  I prefer bottom up -- it's easier to rip the top board down to size and install and less likely to be noticed IMHO

2.  1st board will have to be face nailed and there may be times to do it later depending on your desired look and conditions.  Otherwise, nail through the tongue on an angle with finish nails at least 1 1/2" -- I'm using 1 1/2" finishing nails for 1/2" T&G and they seem to be working nicely with no splitting -- but don't drive them in too close to the end of the board or you will split the Tongue.  Also, make sure you have a good punch handy -- unless you plan on using an air nailer / brad nailer -- then I can't help you as I'm doing mine by hand (read:  glutton for punishment).

3.  Best to stain and poly first if you can.  Will save much in the long run I believe -- unless, like me, you are impatient or the weather won't cooperate.  In my case I gave up trying to finish first and will use wipe on poly coat once it's all up.

[rocking23nf]

i nailed to the face with 2 inch finishing nails. You can only see then when standing up close.  I never had to punch any afterwards. 

[MountainDon]

Nailing T&G is where a nice finishing air nailer really shines as far as I'm concerned. 15 gauge x 2" nails work well. A little practice and you can nail a T&G in place quickly. I find it especially easier when working overhead. I have a slightly smaller and lighter than usual Senco finish nailer I particularly like. It only goes to 2" so can't do everything, but does trim work nicely.

[beckhamk]

I have an additional question here.....  In your opinion, it is ok to use the same size T&G panels for both walls and ceilings?  Or is it better to go with say 1x8 on walls and 1x6 on the ceiling.   We are thinking 1x8 for everything, but i wanted to make sure this didnt seem messed up.

[Don_P]

I prefer to use the same size, it gives more chances to reuse scraps. 8" often comes with an 8" V-groove pattern on one face and a double 4" pattern on the flip side. I like to prefinish, that way the tongue is finished and doesn't stand out if there is shrinkage later. I also like to back up onto the tongue just a little bit with the nailer rather than putting the nail right at the bottom of the V. Again if there is shrinkage, it helps keep the shiny nail hidden. I'll generally make 2 shots at each framing member at slightly different angles. A router with a 45 degree chamfer bit set to the same reveal as the V makes a nicer butt joint IMO but some folks like to bevel the butts and scarf them together to try to hide that joint... personal preference.

[OlJarhead]

I don't think it makes any difference at all   But then we're making our own and by making our own I mean falling the trees as step one!

We're using 7", 6", 5" and 4" and have some oddball sizes in there like 4.5" and I think when patterned it looks very nice (we use a 6/5/4/6/5/4 pattern as much as possible).

Also doing this gives me a lot of flexibility in various situations.  Sometimes a 5" piece will finish off a wall where an 8" would have to be ripped down to 5".

[mpls_ham]

Good info!  Question.....I plan to use T&G on my vaulted ceiling (12/12 pitch) and sheetrock the walls.  I have rafters that are 2'oc and have been told that I need to nail up some kind of backer to prevent sagging over time.  Is this necessary and if so, what do I use for the backer?

Thanks

[OlJarhead]

Good info!  Question.....I plan to use T&G on my vaulted ceiling (12/12 pitch) and sheetrock the walls.  I have rafters that are 2'oc and have been told that I need to nail up some kind of backer to prevent sagging over time.  Is this necessary and if so, what do I use for the backer?

Thanks

I've not heard of this.  To me it seems 1/2" or thicker paneling is every bit as tough as 1/2" of drywall.  How can it not be?

[Don_P]

I've run 3/4" panelling over purlins on 4' centers on a ceiling and have attached to 2' oc rafters more times than I can count. We have about 6000 lineal feet to run on the ceilings of this house on 2' centers. I've had no problems with either.

[OlJarhead]

I've run 3/4" panelling over purlins on 4' centers on a ceiling and have attached to 2' oc rafters more times than I can count. We have about 6000 lineal feet to run on the ceilings of this house on 2' centers. I've had no problems with either.

Ever done 1/2"

Seems all of the T&G I've seen advertised is 3/4" and I'm wondering why that is?

[Redoverfarm]

Ever done 1/2"

Seems all of the T&G I've seen advertised is 3/4" and I'm wondering why that is?

Mostly it is the thickness needed to v-groove and put a substantial tounge & groove on it.  1/2" although possible it would be more prone to splitting when nailed.  I have used 1/4" (wainscoating) for cabinet backs which is just a smaller verson of paneling.

[Don_P]

I should probably back up and give the code cites. We're talking about ceiling finish but just to make sure there is no confusion, the minimum board roof sheathing is 5/8" thick for 24" oc or less and steps to 1.5" thick at 48" oc.

That also reinforces that normal 3/4" panelling will be fine for a ceiling on 24" centers.

1x material is dressed to 3/4" thick and so by tradition most panelling is 1x dressed dimension. I agree with John that it starts getting more difficult to nail as the T&G gets thinner but I've made 5/16" thick v-groove cedar for closet lining, it was difficult stuff to use. I've often wanted to be able to get 1/2" v groove to match drywall thickness when doing wainscotting. The V-groove bits I have produce a standard 1/4" tongue and can't be used with stock thinner than about 5/8". When I made the thin cedar panelling I was running a molder in a cabinet shop and ground a set of knives with a smaller tongue and V groove. There are places that will custom grind router bits so I could get a set made for 1/2"... or get a shaper and grind my own. Hmm sounds like I'm justifying another tool purchase 

[OlJarhead]

I'm having no issues at all with cracking when nailing the 1/2" T&G I made but it isn't V-Groove either.

[rick91351]

Good info!  Question.....I plan to use T&G on my vaulted ceiling (12/12 pitch) and sheetrock the walls.  I have rafters that are 2'oc and have been told that I need to nail up some kind of backer to prevent sagging over time.  Is this necessary and if so, what do I use for the backer?

Thanks

Proper nailed I just can not see where the sag is going to come from.  I would be a heck of a lot more concerned with weight than sag.  Hanging 1/2 gyp or  OSB and then panel over that seems like a lot of weight and strain....

  Wonder if who ever told you might been thinking like that old trailer house paneling.  Four by eight sheets that were like well WOW not worth dragging home.   

If running in to some brittle boards and cracking I think I would run to the hardware store and get some small drill bits some finishing nails and a nail set and go after it.  But I would keep the finish nailer handy because you will soon see the problems board and just hand nail them.  If you have to hand nail them all.  Takes a lot longer but its worth it. 

I really like Don P's suggestion on prefinishing.  I think that is great idea.  I also like the look of the veed edge center vee boards.  To me that is a just great pattern that speaks so much of a by gone era.  That is easy to do with a simple router table.  Center vee sort of needs a larger table that or a jig and a guide.         

[rocking23nf]

stuff goes up quick, we used T&G cedar, it was on sale for the same price as pine one weekend, so i bought 150 bundles. Can't see any surface nails, also we havent done any finishing to it, and although i just put it up this summer, i bought it 2 years ago.

[Redoverfarm]

A couple weeks ago I was at an auction and there was about 60,000 bf of both 6" & 8" T&G V-groove sold.  Top bidder got his choice of widths and length (8 & 12') for $.43 ft.  Kinda makes you wonder why anyone would want to do their own.