No Building restrictions NYS

[archimedes]

I remember talking to a realtor awhile back about a piece of property I wanted to buy to build a house on.  She said that the county had no zonng codes or restrictions.  Unfortunately, I can't remember which county it was.  I know some rural counties don't have building codes or restrictions.  Does anyone know what, if any, counties in New York state have no zoning restrictions.

It would be much easier to do this without the zoning man looking over your shoulder.  Thanks

[John_M]

As an owner of both a home and recreational property in NYS....I find it VERY hard to believe there is a county in this state that will let you do what you want and not look over your shoulder!!

I own property in Cattaragus County and the stuff they make me do is ridiculous for a weekend property.  In their eyes, they do not differentiate between vacation properties and places lived in year-round. 

[Minicup28]

Second that from Schoharie County. All the latest building codes apply. But, I do find the building inspector reasonable, practical and helpful. The county Health officer pointed  me to the code & directions for a private privy, if I was thinking along those lines. That's not to say that some don't just say the hell with it and build what they want, where they want. It's just a matter of time before it catches up to them.

[Squirl]

Agreed.  I spent many months searching counties in the center of the state.  I could not find a county that doesn't have zoning.  I believe the whole state has building codes, how much they are enforced in each area I can't testify too.  There are many cabins built in remote areas in my county (Otsego) without a permit, but permits are definitely required.  NY is a very big state, do you know the region you are referring to? (Adirondacks, Catskills, Western, Finger Lake)  Realtors are trying make money on selling you something. Not all are above lying to accomplish this.

[archimedes]

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't believe it either.  But when I challenged the realtor, she insisted it was correct.  I have never been able to confirm it however.  It was in the center part of the state - but I can't be sure what county.

I have built buildings before, and pulled permits in several different locations.  And the degree of cooperation from the permitting people can make all the difference in the world.  Some are helpful, some are very unhelpful, especially to non-professional builders.

Preferrably I'm searching for a cheap piece of land in the middle of the state ( Ulster, Greene, Delaware, Schoharie, or Otsego counties).  If anyone can share their experiences building in this area I would appreciate it.  Thanks

[Squirl]

Here is one.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5690.0

Here is my shed
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7305.0

I am sure you can probably click on peoples names from this post and search back to see if they posted their own projects.  I can confirm that every county in the region around Otsego (Broome, Chenango, Delaware, etc) has building codes.  Some towns (Oneonta) even have their own.  You can usually find the zoning of each property from the tax map.  Most counties let you view these on line.  You can find them here:
http://www.orps.state.ny.us/ref/asmtdata/taxmappingresources.htm
Broome county's map is very detailed. I used this to cross check almost every listing.  My understanding is that NY has an office of real property services (orps) and counties have these too.  Most of the code enforcement and zoning offices were connected to the same web sites as the RPS for each county.  Most of these can be found on each counties web site.

On cheap pieces of land.  In my search the closer I went towards NYC the higher the prices seam to go.  The central Catskills were very expensive compared to the Delaware/Otsego area.  Here are a few search options that might help.  I punched in a town in the area I was looking into realtor.com.  I told it the minimum number of acres I was looking for.  I had it then sort from lowest to highest price.  It gave me a good idea of price/acre/option for a general region.  Then cross reference all parcels with tax and zoning maps keeping an eye out for flood zones and wetlands.  Also check who the realtor is and go directly to their site, sometime they have more information.  Hope this helps.

[SouthernTier]

The level of requirements/inspections varies by town, not county.  But as others have said, I doubt there is any town that has no restrictions.  Like John_M, I'm in Cattaraugus county, and I know some friends in one town where there is lots of leeway, and others where everything is carefully scripted.  This is all in the same county.

I've got a friend who built a cabin in the next town over from John_M and had to do the whole thing, rescheck for energy, foundation inspection, everything.  Another guy here (jbos333) isn't even allowed to build smaller than 800 ft2 in his town.  Other friends in a different town could pretty much build whatever they wanted.  The inspector in my town seems like a nice guy, but so far I'v'e only started a 10x10 shed for storage, which didn't need a permit.  Once I get onto the bigger cabin (22 x 25, who knows when in this economy), I'll need to get a permit just like a regular house.

[MushCreek]

You might be lucky enough to find a place without inspectors, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any building codes. In SC, the whole state is under IBC 2006. Some counties don't have inspectors, but I believe that technically, you still need to meet code. It's kind of like people who live in areas that don't test emissions on cars. The hot rodders pull all the smog stuff off, but they are actually breaking a federal law with hefty fines. If I lived in an area without inspections or codes, I'd still pretty much build to code, except for the things I think are stupid. Chances are, nobody would ever know, and if they put inspectors in place in the future, I doubt they'd go around to every existing structure to inspect it.

[WoodSprite]

I know some rural counties don't have building codes or restrictions.  Does anyone know what, if any, counties in New York state have no zoning restrictions.

Definitely not Tompkins or Tioga Counties...

As MushCreek suggests, there seem to be state-wide residential building codes for us: 
http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/noticadopt07.htm

and I can attest that even in our minimally enforced little town, the county health department is vitally interested in what you're planning to do with wastewater.  If you're going to have running water (and that includes a handpump on the kitchen counter), there are codes to deal with.

[archimedes]

Thanks again for the feedback.

I love this site!!  I wish I had found this website years ago.  I built my own 16' X 24' cottage about 5 years ago(with permits btw) and I would have loved to have shared the experience and had the advice contained on the site.  It was within city limits so the city had me under a microscope - very unpleasant.

I have always built things to code, and plan on continuing to do that.  But some of the building inspectors that I have had to deal with in the past were very unfriendly and seem bent on making things more difficult than necessary.  If that part could be avoided,  I would. 

What Mushcreek said about some places in SC is appealing.  Get a permit, build it to code, but no inspectors to harrass you.  That's more of what I had in mind.

[MushCreek]

While my county in SC (Greenville) has a full inspection department, there are two things I like. 1) There is no plans review. You don't even have to HAVE plans! They want to know the heated square footage, and how many bedrooms (for sizing the septic system).  Other than that, you build to code and have the usual inspections. The head of the department is a great guy who spent about 2 hours going over stuff with us, and giving us pointers on how to stay on the good side of the inspectors. His advice was to ask questions, and treat them with respect. The other thing I love is that if a building is deemed 'for agricultural purposes', there is no inspection or permit required! So my barn will be a horse barn, and they won't even look at it.

[archimedes]

Sounds simple and common sense.  The way things should be.

I did a weather.com search for averages in your area.  It doesn't seem to get too hot in the summer,  or way too cold in the winter.

What are land prices like?

I'm almost sold.  LOL

[MushCreek]

We discovered Greenville by accident. We were looking at land in GA, and rode through the Greenville area on the way to visit family in VA. Who knew SC had mountains?! Downtown has been beautifully renewed, with wide brick sidewalks and lots of trees and gardens. It's about the prettiest medium sized city I've ever seen. We need to keep working for 10 years or so before we can retire, so we needed to be near a city for work, but somewhere where rural acreage is at least sort of reasonable. Our 7 acres is 15 miles from the center of Greenville, and only takes 20-25 minutes. We paid $10k and acre, but it is all usable land, and has a mountain view. You can find land for half that, but it usually has 'issues'- too steep, flood zone, too far out, etc. We even have city water, which saves us a bundle on drilling a well. Taxes are cheap- maybe $600 a year for a typical house (~$200K).

As for weather, it's kind of halfway between what we have here in FL, and what we had in CT (makes sense) It's a true 4 seasons, although snow is rare, and is gone by noon. It can get very hot- they hit a record 105 a couple summers ago! That's unusual, though. The higher up in the mountains you go, the cooler it is, but you get further from town, and prices go up, especially after you cross over into western NC. Here in FL, we have 6 months of hot, A/C type weather. the SC upstate area has about half that. Evenings are cooler, too, but overall, it's much warmer than what you experience in NY state. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions or just want to yak.

Jay

[StinkerBell]

Maybe that all the cpunties have codes, but you may discover that as a owner build the codes do not always apply.
We found such a code at our kettle falls address. It had some restrictions about how far off the property line we could build with no permits. We found that it would not work for our property. But what we did discover is these codes do exist for the owner builder.

[archimedes]

Thanks Mushcreek,

I actually live in FL now.  I was looking in NYS (which is where I'm originally from) to escape the brutal summers here in FL.  I still have some family in NYS and remember enjoying the mountains in NYS years ago - that's why I started looking there .  But the land prices are very high, regulations usually very strict, taxes very high,and the summer season very short- though beautiful.  After 14 years in FL I can't handle long cold snowy winters any more.  So NYS would strictly be a summer house (plus late spring, early fall).

I'm willing to expand my search options though.  And Greenville sounds appealing.  Possibly even as a year round residence, eventually.  Shorter cooler summers, mild short winter, four seasons, low taxes, an acommodatiing building dept.,  it all sounds good.  Plus it's drivable from FL in one day, whereas NYS is at least two full days drive. 

Are there any areas in particular that you can suggest I look?  I would imagine that north and west of the city is more mountainous and therefore desirable?

Thanks so much for your help.

[Virginia Gent]

If you hold Allodial Title to your land and all its appurtenances, you do not need any building permits for anything you choose to build on your property.

[eddiescabin]

Allodial title is a myth...or at least I would love to hear of a place in the USA that does not have property taxes, which is basically what allodial title is. No liens, tax or otherwise.  As for weather, I am quite amazed at the conditions many on this board deem acceptable.  You need to come to California!

"Allodial title is a concept in some systems of property law. It describes a situation where real property (land, buildings and fixtures) is owned free and clear of any encumbrances, including liens, mortgages and tax obligations. Allodial title is inalienable, in that it cannot be taken by any operation of law for any reason whatsoever. "

"In the United States, "To say that land is owned 'allodially' is a fiction, as all land under United States government jurisdiction is subject to expropriation by way of eminent domain",[1] though such governmental commandeering of territory or property is rare (except in the cases of property acquisitions made during drug raids and the like). "

"Many state constitutions (Arkansas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, New York) refer to allodial title, but only to clearly distinguish it from feudal title, which appears to be illegal throughout the United States. The conditions under which the government can compel the sale of privately owned real property for public benefit are established by eminent domain laws of either the federal or state governments, respectively. The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution requires just compensation for eminent domain compelled sale. The right to tax real estate is preserved in the Constitution though it is a right reserved for the states (i.e. via property taxes). In addition, the government powers of police power, and escheat have been retained in the American legal system..... "

[eddiescabin]

FYI- another requirement of allodial title is that the property is NOT subject to any laws or jurisdictions, city, state, federal laws would have no right to exist.  Indian Res's do not even have that.

[Virginia Gent]

A simple search of law will show these are all common misconceptions. Allodial Title to land doesn't "happen" when there is no jurisdictional laws, of any sort. Allodial Title to land happens when your land is free from any debts, contracts, or encumbrances. See you don't receive a piece of paper stating you have Allodial Title; instead it simply exists when you reach a certain point.

Allow me to expand on that word, encumbrances and explain why no level of government has any right to force "rent payments" (IE. Property Taxes) or dictate how, where, when, how, etc to build on your land, and so forth. Land is granted to the people via "Land Patents". All land currently owned has a land patent. The Bureau of Land Management has the complete database of these patents. Provide a valid Color of Title to your land, and you can acquire your land patent. It's unlawful for the Government to own land, except in the case of the 10-square miles making D.C. and for the erection of forts, magazines, dock-yards, etc. Don't believe me? Read the Constitution. It's all there. Thus all land in the hands of the Government, is simply being held until the people make a legal claim to a piece of land that has not yet had a patent made for it. When an American fulfills the requirements to obtain a "Land Patent" the patent is assigned by and under the hand and seal of the President of the United States, under an Act of Congress. The United States Supreme Court has ruled the Land Patent is the only form of perfect title to land available in the United States. (see: Wilcox v. Jackson, 38 U.S. 498, 10 L.Ed. 264, 1839 U.S. LEXIS 457)

The problem herein lies that most people who think they own land, do not. There is a difference between land and the property that pertains to it (appurtenances). Most people today end up obtaining Real Estate by contract and then, upon fulfilling the terms of the contract, it is passed by way of a Warranty Deed. This is not a Land Patent, but merely, as I said earlier, Color of Title. Color of Title is, by definition: "That which is a semblance or appearance of title, but not title in fact or in law." (Howth v. Farrar, C.C.A. Tex., 94 F.2d 654, 658; McCoy v. Lowrie, 42 Wash.2d 24, Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed.)

Now lets assume you have full, legal, title to all your land and its appurtenances. You can still contract your rights away to any level of government, any corporation, or other fictitious entity. Contract is the key word here. Do you know why, even with the land patent and a full chain of title to all your land and its appurtenances, the local city/government has the right to tell you how wide a door has to be, or charge you rent? Because you contract your rights away. With this contracting of rights away, you lose Allodial Title. Property Taxes, for example, are purely contractual. Registering to vote is one way, agreeing to pay another persons property taxes when you purchase their property is another way (entities charge their property taxes in arrears because so doing means the years taxes are not due and payable until after the year is over—if you close your purchase at some time that is not at the year's end the taxes that were already contracted to by the previous owner would not have been paid so the seller agrees with you that you will pay them as a condition of the sale. When you pay those taxes, you become the contracted party to pay them as time goes on.), and the other is  when the county/city/state sends out an assessment even though they have no existing contract for payment and the property owner pays the assessment, which payment stands as a signature act on the contract to pay the property taxes from that day forward. In any of these conditions, the obligation to pay according to the voter's registration contract is secured, regardless of whether the payer is a registered voter or not.

I'm sure this all sounds like some wild conspiracy theory stuff, but it's all in public record for any who are willing, to learn and look, to find. If you look closely at my post, there is a pink elephant in the room, that most people will miss. That elephant is, if the Constitution says that the government can't own land, how do you explain state & national parks, interstates, and so forth? Here is where it starts to sound very Conspiracy Theory, but trust me it is ALL public record, ... those which you think of as government, are not government. That is to say, the entities that own those parks, interstates, and so forth are not a legitimate government body; they are, in fact, a corporation. Now, how can that be? The Constitution also says that no fictitious entity (IE. a trust, corporation, etc) can own land as well. They can, but only by an act of Congress. This is where all that I have said becomes a matter of public record for anyone willing to find.

I suggest starting off with the District of Colombia Organic Act of 1871. Keep in mind while you read that, that you can only Incorporate once. If this peaks your interest, even just a little bit, you can go here to learn more: http://teamlaw.net/ and go here for more on Land Law: http://teamlawforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3

My information you read above came from there, as the author of that is more articulate than I am. Some is direct copy/pasting, other is from my memory/own experience. It's human nature to be distrustful/skeptical. It's also uniquely American to question government. We all know that property taxes and so forth are wrong. We all know that what, we think of as "government", is going on is wrong, and in most cases highly Unconstitutional. Use this and look over this site. Join the forum and ask questions if you want. It won't hurt to browse and see what they have to say, and to see their lawful proof of all their claims.

[rwanders]

Well, V-Gent-----stop paying your property taxes, ignore the zoning laws and building permit requirements . We'll all watch to see how that works out for you but, we won't hold our breath waiting for your courtroom victories. Arguments based on similar logical and legal fantasies about income taxes have consistently been thrown out of court and the defendants relying on them have often enjoyed a stretch of free room & board from the government to boot. Perhaps you should look for a lawyer to take on your argument for you in court-----the publicity for them would surely make their career soar so they should be willing to work without fee to champion your cause.