Rustic Floor? With Rolled Roofing?

[OlJarhead]

I was reading "How to Build Your Dream Cabin In The Woods" by J. Wayne Fears today (bought it a few years ago and periodically go back and read sections) and came across this description of how he built his floor in one of his cabins:

"On top of the subfloor I put down a layer of rolled roofing.  Over that I nailed down hand picked 1x7" pine boards. The wood floor was finished with 3 coats of honey-pine polyurethane stain."

I've been trying to decide what to do with my floor for some time and this struck me as an easy solution that would certainly give that rustic cabin floor look!

I'm not sure I'd need the rolled roofing since I've insulated my floor and put down a layer of vapor barrier under the subfloor (6 mil plastic).

What are your thoughts on this? 

I'm thinking that putting down 1x7 pine (not tongue and groove) would give that 'wood plank' floor look if ever I've seen one though I'm also thinking some gorilla grip might be good to help bond the floor to the subfloor becuase nails do tend to loosen over time.

So, thoughts?

[considerations]

"I'm thinking that putting down 1x7 pine (not tongue and groove) would give that 'wood plank' floor look if ever I've seen one though I'm also thinking some gorilla grip might be good to help bond the floor to the subfloor becuase nails do tend to loosen over time."r

Just to give you some input:

I used 2x6 T&G because the T&G seems to keep the tops of the planks even with each other, even though they shrink and swell.  The 2" gave me a place to "hide" my nails, which were amateurish and not pretty.  Plus I also glued (I used Liquid Nails, for good or ill) the T&G down as I laid it because it was mentioned by some on this forum that the floor would squeak....which so far it does not. 

My floor is on 24" oc floor joists, but it does not flex or squeak, nor do I have any uneven surfaces. 

About rolled roofing, I know nothing. 

[Redoverfarm]

What are your thoughts on this? 

I'm thinking that putting down 1x7 pine (not tongue and groove) would give that 'wood plank' floor look if ever I've seen one though I'm also thinking some gorilla grip might be good to help bond the floor to the subfloor becuase nails do tend to loosen over time.

So, thoughts?

I would be worried that without the spline of the T&G that the gaps would get greater in time and could prove very hard to keep clean.  I noticed that the gaps in my 2X6 T&G (plain side up in the loft) have widened some since their installation.  You may be able to get the 1'(3/4") T&G in a v-groove or bead pattern and reverse it to apply the decorative pattern down against the subfloor reveiling the plank or plain side up.  In a loft the wear would not be significent but on the down stairs or main floor wear might be the killer as pine does not hold up well.  Here is a couple of shots of the loft floor with the plank side up in Dogtrot.

[MountainDon]

Well now we're into interior decorating.   

I'm not sure about that layer of roll roofing. I thought this was going to lead to one of those floors where old paint is painted on the roll roofing. Not my style.

I share some of the same concerns about using flat, non T&G pine boards as mentioned above. I think that no matter how well you nail down the edges there will be some cupping. Expansion and contraction with changes in humidity will happen too. But then I guess it depends on how rustic one likes their rusticness. (that's not a real word but conveys a meaning I think) 


We wanted something that would be easy to clean and not show wear easily. So we went with tile. We don't worry about tracking in snow or dirt or mud. We sweep dirt into a corner. If we know company is coming we clear it out with a dustpan         Snow melts and is mopped up.

[OlJarhead]

Redoverfarm that's beautiful!

Considerations the 2x6 T&G is a bit too deep for me but I think it would have been more rustic as it's far closer to what might have been found 100 years ago.

In our home in Richland we put in Pergo (Red Oak) and love the look of it but I'm not real sure it actually will hold up all that long.  Eventually parts of it will have to be replaced I suspect (so we bought extra) but all in all it's a decent alternative to real wood flooring.

Real wood flooring, of course, would be fantastic but the cost is prohibitive.

I was very surprised by the authors note on using 1x7 Pine boards becuase without the T&G they would be well, like planks which do indeed have a tendency to do all sorts of things we wouldn't want in a modern house....but in a cabin?  Who knows?

I'll have to do some research but the floor isn't all the high on the priority list -- just something I was thinking about.

[OlJarhead]

To give you an idea of our tastes I'll post a few pics of our house so you can see the sort of thing we've done or love...figure, if there is wood involved, we love it


A few years ago we took Thanksgiving weekend and laid down Pergo in our dining room and hallway but the kitchen.  We'd already used the same Red Oak Pergo in the Family room a year or two earlier and wanted to keep the same theme here.


You'll notice the Oak chair rail, rustic cupboard (what they heck do they call those things....geez my mind is mush) and the oak trim heading into the Den.

And the dog of course   he's not allowed in the Dining room....

[OlJarhead]

Also in the picture above is the closed in vent that was here for many years.  When I met my wife it was just exposed and ugly so I closed it in with drywall...looks better now!


These were the cupboard doors after sanding, they were a dark chocolate brown when my wife bought the house 18 years ago...now they are...

Much nicer:

It was a LOT of work to sand them down and stain and varathane them but well worth it


This is a shot of our Den.  It was this way (mostly) when my wife bought the house and she painted the trim and then we put in the blinds.  We considered shutters but decided the blinds looked good and the price was much better...but...


We did break down and put shutters in the front of the house

OK so the point?  We love wood and rustic appearance of it at that.  I'm working on dozens of projects (so the cabin is just one more albeit a big one) and you'll find that I think about EVERYTHING all the time...so I ask a lot of questions and often they are all unrelated haha!

[OlJarhead]

On a side note, our house is 57 years old and has 3 additions on it!  An upstairs, the den and a family room/bedroom/bathroom....We love the old house too but I guess when your like us you can love any old house since we're always finding something to fix, change, remodel, modify etc....not that we always want to work on things, but if we didn't what would we do?  *chuckle*

So imagine what our cabin will look like some day

[Redoverfarm]

I'm not sure about that layer of roll roofing. I thought this was going to lead to one of those floors where old paint is painted on the roll roofing. Not my style.

I overlooked this portion of the inquiry but I think that the felt was just to even things out.  I used it when I laid the hardwood in the livingroom, hall and master bedroom.  I don't really believe it was for moisture when it was first thought of.  If there is a minute spot that will raise or lower the flooring then that will be the area that recievces the most wear.  It sort of keeps everything on an even plain.

[Don_P]

We had one house that had 1x12 southern yellow pine square edge stock put down. They acclimated the material in the house and then face nailed it with cut nails. The gaps were 1/8-1/4" a couple of years later. We had talked about it and they were on board and happy with it.

As wood shrinks or swells, the amount of change across 1' is going to be some amount. If I use a 1x12 the entire amount of shrinkage in that foot will be in one gap. If I use 3" strip flooring the same amount of shrinkage will be distributed among 4 gaps. Narrow strip floors have smaller gaps seasonally.

Most construction lumber is dried to 19% moisture content. Most interior boards are dried to 15%. I generally get flooring in at 8-10%. Wood in a house in our location will run from about 8-12% in service. I prefer to stack and sticker interior stock in the house and run the heat pretty hard, raising the temperature and lowering the humidity. In softwoods the moisture content starts dropping pretty quickly. If you can dry it there will be smaller gaps.

T&G is better but plenty of floors were planks. A router with a wing cutter can make grooves pretty easily and a tablesaw can make splines, grooves and splines is another way of making flooring. Biscuits would work too.

I removed (and reused) a 150 year old poplar T&G random width floor. The grooves were packed tight with dust, dirt, and stuff I didn't want to contemplate. Point blank with a powerwasher didn't budge this stuff, I had to make a tool to scrape it out. A tooth from a circular sawmill blade was the perfect fit. As the wood dried and shrank each year, dust filtered in. As the humidity rose the next summer the wood swelled and packed the fresh dust into the groove, repeat 150X, it was like rock. Also found someone's name under the floor, wish he had written more.

[MarkAndDebbie]

You might want something dark under the floor to help the gaps blend-in. John put tar paper on the interior under his fir for this reason http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/20.html

[OlJarhead]

You might want something dark under the floor to help the gaps blend-in. John put tar paper on the interior under his fir for this reason http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/20.html

Interesting.  Did he put it on the walls and ceiling too?

Also, was this T&G?  It says 1x6 fir and I assume 1" boards aren't T&G...curious becuase it could make putting the interior up pretty easy -- though it might be almost as expensive as T&G.

That's one thing I'm fighting with now, the cost of doing the interior and floor.  We want wood but wood can get spendy.

I'm currently thinking of drywalling the bathroom inside and out and also the kitchen area.  This will cut down on wood interior as well as provide a surface for light paint which will help with lighting.

[MarkAndDebbie]

Just the walls and ceiling - not the floor. The floor was just painted OSB. The fir was not T&G. and since he put it up wet, it shrank quite a bit.

We are getting quotes for t&g v-groove 3/4" #2 yellow pine for the walls - of .$75 sq ft. T&G flooring of the same is $.85.

[poppy]

I don't see how T&G flooring is rustic.  No offense there, John.

I plan on 1x planking subfloor installed diagonally, with a layer of roll roofing, and then the finish floor in 1x planking with edges butted.  Going old school.    Roofing layer will help prevent squeeking and also add another air barrier.

My plank cherry has been drying for a couple of years and I will probably rip it down to narrow widths because of what Don_P mentioned, plus some of it has already cupped some and I want to minimize planing.

For walls and ceiling I'm thinking of one of the methods Don_P mentioned; haven't decided which will be easier for me.

Stayed in a retreat center that had a newer addition with plank flooring made with 1x10 or 1x12 dimentional pine shelving material.  It looked good and flat and rustic.

Have also seen plank flooring with some kind of roping stuffed in the cracks; you know, like sealing boat planks.

I don't see the problem with cracks and dirt; it's a cabin, right.    We're not going to eat off the floor; at least I'm not.  

[OlJarhead]

I don't see how T&G flooring is rustic.  No offense there, John.

I plan on 1x planking subfloor installed diagonally, with a layer of roll roofing, and then the finish floor in 1x planking with edges butted.  Going old school.    Roofing layer will help prevent squeeking and also add another air barrier.

My plank cherry has been drying for a couple of years and I will probably rip it down to narrow widths because of what Don_P mentioned, plus some of it has already cupped some and I want to minimize planing.

For walls and ceiling I'm thinking of one of the methods Don_P mentioned; haven't decided which will be easier for me.

Stayed in a retreat center that had a newer addition with plank flooring made with 1x10 or 1x12 dimentional pine shelving material.  It looked good and flat and rustic.

Have also seen plank flooring with some kind of roping stuffed in the cracks; you know, like sealing boat planks.

I don't see the problem with cracks and dirt; it's a cabin, right.    We're not going to eat off the floor; at least I'm not.  

Thanks Poppy -- very interesting.  I tend to think planks would be more rustic too.  With the roofing down I'm guessing the cracks wouldn't be as noticeable unless the wood really shrinks.  But I don't know really...one way to find out though

[Thoughts-from-Jules]

I like this discussion. Good points about benefits of T&G but I see why it might not seem as rustic.  My parents when they built their house 30+ years ago put in a soft wood (I think it may have been fir or pine) and they had 3 different widths ranging from 8" to 4" I think so there was a pattern to it, 8" plank, then a 6" plank, then a 4" plank then they started over.  They used what to me looked like black horseshoe nails (can't think of what they are called, kinda a square nail with a rustic head to it).  It looks very rustic and has lasted really well for 30+ years of use with 4 kids and critters etc.  Seems like every 10 years we'd do something like old english type finish to bring back the color richness).  I am trying to remember if it was T&G though.......I will ask and see if they can remember.  I know the neighbors like it so much they bought all the extra wood to do some in the house they were building.  Anyway it might be a thought.  Not sure HOW rustic you were wanting though.

[OlJarhead]

I like this discussion. Good points about benefits of T&G but I see why it might not seem as rustic.  My parents when they built their house 30+ years ago put in a soft wood (I think it may have been fir or pine) and they had 3 different widths ranging from 8" to 4" I think so there was a pattern to it, 8" plank, then a 6" plank, then a 4" plank then they started over.  They used what to me looked like black horseshoe nails (can't think of what they are called, kinda a square nail with a rustic head to it).  It looks very rustic and has lasted really well for 30+ years of use with 4 kids and critters etc.  Seems like every 10 years we'd do something like old english type finish to bring back the color richness).  I am trying to remember if it was T&G though.......I will ask and see if they can remember.  I know the neighbors like it so much they bought all the extra wood to do some in the house they were building.  Anyway it might be a thought.  Not sure HOW rustic you were wanting though.

That would probably do it.


Sure, having a rough grey floor would be rustic but that's more then I'm interested in!  I just like the idea of planks but intend to finish them nicel.

[MushCreek]

I've probably mentioned this before  , but the 200 y/o house I grew up in had floorboards up to 14" wide- not T&G, of course. At some point in the house's history, someone 'caulked' the floorboards with old manila rope- no doubt to keep the New England winter out. It was a great (and rustic) floor.

[Don_P]

http://www.tremontnail.com/index.htm

In colonial times the crown claimed all white pines over 24". The story goes that there are many colonial homes with floorboards that are just under 24"  , and some homes contained very wide floorboards  .

[Freeholdfarm]

You might want something dark under the floor to help the gaps blend-in. John put tar paper on the interior under his fir for this reason http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/20.html

That's what I was thinking it was for.  With the tar paper under there, the gaps don't matter so much because it's dark down there and nothing shows. 

As for using regular 1X7's, instead of tongue and groove, I suppose it might be a little rustic for some applications, but I'd be quite happy with it.  I tore out the carpet in my bedroom here (I HATE carpet!) and ripped several sheets of plywood into 8" wide 'planks.'  Stained and polyurethaned, it actually looks pretty nice, even though there are some gaps between the boards.  (I ripped with a circular saw -- a table saw would have done a better job of cutting straight lines.)  I wouldn't use it in the living room, but I'm quite happy with it in here.

Kathleen

[OlJarhead]

http://www.tremontnail.com/index.htm

In colonial times the crown claimed all white pines over 24". The story goes that there are many colonial homes with floorboards that are just under 24"  , and some homes contained very wide floorboards  .

Those nails, a plank floor, some stain and poly and we're there!

My wife said to me yesterday: "Why don't we just do what the pioneers must have done, throw down the boards, nail them in place and start using it!".

I'd be afraid it would look like crap too fast but bless her heart!

[firefox]

She's a keeper!
Bruce

[devildog]

You might want something dark under the floor to help the gaps blend-in. John put tar paper on the interior under his fir for this reason http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/20.html

That's what I was thinking it was for.  With the tar paper under there, the gaps don't matter so much because it's dark down there and nothing shows. 

As for using regular 1X7's, instead of tongue and groove, I suppose it might be a little rustic for some applications, but I'd be quite happy with it.  I tore out the carpet in my bedroom here (I HATE carpet!) and ripped several sheets of plywood into 8" wide 'planks.'  Stained and polyurethaned, it actually looks pretty nice, even though there are some gaps between the boards.  (I ripped with a circular saw -- a table saw would have done a better job of cutting straight lines.)  I wouldn't use it in the living room, but I'm quite happy with it in here.

Kathleen

pictures? please.

[Freeholdfarm]

You might want something dark under the floor to help the gaps blend-in. John put tar paper on the interior under his fir for this reason http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/20.html

That's what I was thinking it was for.  With the tar paper under there, the gaps don't matter so much because it's dark down there and nothing shows. 

As for using regular 1X7's, instead of tongue and groove, I suppose it might be a little rustic for some applications, but I'd be quite happy with it.  I tore out the carpet in my bedroom here (I HATE carpet!) and ripped several sheets of plywood into 8" wide 'planks.'  Stained and polyurethaned, it actually looks pretty nice, even though there are some gaps between the boards.  (I ripped with a circular saw -- a table saw would have done a better job of cutting straight lines.)  I wouldn't use it in the living room, but I'm quite happy with it in here.

Kathleen

pictures? please.

I'll have to see if I can figure out how to work my digital camera!  If I do, though, it won't be until Friday -- it will take me a little time to figure things out, and I'm working the next two days.

Kathleen

[frazoo]

Tar paper was used as a moisture/vapor barrier back before we had the nice products we have today.  Many subfloors were diagonally laid one-bys that would shrink width-wize, allowing moisture to get at the underside of the finished flooring. The temperature difference from the interior finished floor would be much different from the underside of the floor creating a LOT of condensation.  We don't have to worry so much with our modern plywoods, insulations and moisture barriers.

frazoo