Why can't we fix healthcare?

[NM_Shooter]

Here's my issue... I have great insurance, AND MY HEALTHCARE STILL SUCKS!!!!!

Want to improve overall healthcare?  It is not going to happen with making healthcare immediately available to everyone.  Give everybody what they will consider to be a free ride, and they are going to use it.  Need that colonoscopy?  Too bad.  400 people are in line before you.

Want to improve healthcare?  Pouring money the gov't does not have into another freebie handout / bailout program to build the US into even more of a socialist quagmire is not the answer. 

I do have an idea though....

Want to drive costs down?  Basic economics.  Increase supply and competition for customers (patients).

Let's build great doctors, nurses, PAs, NPs, technicians, research centers, test facilities, and promote technology development for new instrumentation and techniques.

More Clinics!  Pinkeye / Strep / Flu shots / don't need direct doc supervision.

Make med school FREE for qualified, smart, and hardworking students (yup, let the gov't pay for this instead).  Then, these docs have to work in reduced rate facilities for a couple of years, or set aside xx% of their openings for patients with reduced incomes.  Whatever.   

Reduce or completely remove taxation on Docs and other healthcare workers.

Reform the FDA.  Figure out a way to allow drug companies to safely test and pass their products without a 7 year, $xxxM cost.

Tort reform.  Did you know that docs have to maintain their malpractice for 5 years after they retire?  For a OB, that can be $250k or more a year.

No free med help for non-tax paying aliens. 

I'm not heartless, but I am practical.  Life is hard.  We are all on our own to take care of ourselves and our families, and I work hard to provide my family with insurance and cash to cover the deductibles.  Everyone seems to think that if the government covers the insurance, "well, that's pretty much free to everybody then, right?".  Nope.  We are all ready spending way more money than we have, and putting single payer / Gov't provided healthcare will be a breaking point.

To get a good visual idea of how much money we are already in the hole, look at the penny video regarding the $100M budget cut on http://www.freedomnuts.org/Home.html

[Pox Eclipse]

The insurance commissioner in each state needs to be an elective position. Insurance companies do not wake up one day to randomly rise your rates. They need to get state approval first. The people in each state need to make their government wake up and smell the coffee. IMO technically our insurance is run my the government. Without the government they can not operate in your state. 

The state insurance commissioner has absolutely no authority to control employer-based group health insurance.  If you get health insurance through your employer, it is governed by the federal ERISA statutes, which supersede all state insurance regulations.  The ERISA statutes forbid lawsuits for punitive damages against an insurance provider.  So, if they deny your claim for, say, chemotherapy, and you can't get treated until you sue them, they might have to pay for the chemo, but they can't be punished or held responsible for your now-metastasized, Stage IV tumor.  The worst that can happen to them is they have to pay for the benefits they should have paid for in the first place.

So you go ahead, write some letters to the utterly toothless insurance commissioner, if it will make you feel better.  But don't expect it to change anything.

Pretty sweet deal.  It didn't happen by accident.

[StinkerBell]

The Insurance commission might be toothless but they have the power and the authority for the regulation. Insurance comapny can be denied the right to do business in your state if the insurance commissioned see's fit.

The problem imo, is indeed a toothless position. It should not be. Hence why I truly think it needs to be an elected position and a position held accountable. Right now its a poistion that is generally filled by the current governors administration. A job given to someone who helped the current administration get into office.

If you get Health insurance through our employer, then you ahead of the ball game. You are insured and employed. I am not sure when it became mandatory for a employment to give insurance. Thought it was always a benefit not a right. But with all the  Federal rules when you have more then 15 employees things have changed. Personally I would never own a company with more then 15 people. imo you lose your right to run it as you see fit.

I was writting understanding that those without insurance do not have full time work hence do not qualify for it at work. There are those who can not afford individual polices, self employeed for example.

[MountainDon]

As far as I know it's not federally legally mandatory (yet) for any employer to offer any benefits of any kind. It has become customary and employers find themselves forced by the competition to offer benefits.

Some states have mandatory employer coverage laws in place. Hawaii is one I believe, as is MA. Others are thinking about it.

[StinkerBell]

Hmmm, Maybe the 15 employee rule was for Washington state.

I like the approach Arizona is taking.

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/06/26/arizona-hcr2014-national-health-care-nullification/

But then again, I am going to say. It's a statehood issue. I am kinda stuck on that 

[Woodsrule]

This issue is very simple to me. If you want health INSURANCE, then buy it. If you want emergency health care and cannot afford it, simply go to any ER in the country and they are mandated to treat you. If you want car insurance, buy it. If you want life insurance, buy it. If you want home insurance, buy it. Health Insurance is not a right. If anyone tells me that they are going to come into my home and take my money to pay for another person's health INSURANCE, then I simply ask them where they believe they get the right to do so. There are many differences of opinion out there regarding this issue, but the fact is, the overwhelming percentage of Americans like their health care and do not want it changed to reflect those successful government programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the DMV's......  For an alternate view to the myth that you will be able to keep your health care if you like it and we are not going to be giving illegal aliens health care, check out the site below.  Oh, and what about that claim that 500 Billion dollars of waste is going to found within Medicare? Now, that's a hoot. 



http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/home.html

[NM_Shooter]

This issue is very simple to me. If you want health INSURANCE, then buy it.

AMEN!!!!

[Pox Eclipse]

If you want emergency health care and cannot afford it, simply go to any ER in the country and they are mandated to treat you.

That's rather short sighted.  ER care for non-emergencies is much more expensive than seeing a primary care physician.  Hospitals don't just eat that expense you know; it gets passed along to insurance companies in the form of higher fees for those who have insurance.  Insurance companies charge higher premiums to their customers because of fees inflated by those using the ER as their primary care doctor.  So you are paying for the care of others anyway, and at a much higher rate than if we had a public option health care plan. 

But if paying higher premiums is OK with you, who am I to tell you otherwise?

[Woodsrule]

Pox Eclipse,

You may have missed my point. I was trying to impart the fact that no one here in the US gets left behind. We are all covered for any traumatic injuries we may suffer. I happen to value my health INSURANCE, so I buy it. I could use that money for vacations, cars, electronics or what have you, but I CHOOSE not to. Everyone has the right to health insurance, much like we all have the right to other types of insurance or any other commodity. Health insurance is simply a commodity and mandating me to buy it would be an intrusion into my privacy.

[MountainDon]

Pox Eclipse and Woodsrule touch on things that concern me.


The point about those without insurance or cash in pocket using the ER and getting treatment at no expense to themselves is bang on. The rest of us with insurance pay, or the money comes from a state or federal government program.

If someone has the right to refuse to buy insurance then they should not expect to be able to sponge off the system via the ER.


The constitution may not make any guarantees about anyone receiving health care, but as long as people opt out of the insurance, and are otherwise able to purchase insurance, they should not receive what to me amounts to health care welfare. Now, that said, I really do not think we should discard people who are down on their luck. Nor should we subsidize people who elect to spend their money on large screen TV's, fancy cars, oversized homes, and any other number of non-necessities, instead of providing for their own possible medical costs. They are being irresponsible in my book.

[John Raabe]

We don't (directly) pay for fire department protection, 911 EMT service or libraries. There are no high-overhead profit making corporations selling us insurance to cover those services. You don't have to think about it - you're covered whether you're responsible or foresighted or not. Whether you need them or use them or not. They are there if and when you need them.

Of course, our taxes pay for this, and everyone wants lower taxes - but, in the end, it is clearly the most fair and inexpensive way to provide these types of services.

Health care should be one of those "taken for granted" services. It is almost everywhere else in the civilized world.

[MountainDon]

...fire department protection, 911 service or libraries....

That's a very good comparison. Just like health care for a serious illness or accident, I never really want to have the need for the services of the fire department. Oh wait a sec, I did have need for the services of the fire department last May. That was up in the mountains and the fire was not caused by myself or anyone on my property. The neighbor to the east started the blaze in the woods and it was only because of the combined efforts of the paid fire departments from two forest service departments, one national monument in addition to the local volunteer pumper/tanker truck, that the fire was stopped at our property line. Well, okay we contributed by having cleaned up the ground debris. Without them we could very likely have suffered some loss.


Of course there are those who decry all these services and the taxes involved to pay for them. I've heard retirees here and back home complain that they should not have to pay school taxes because they don't have kids. Well, too bad. Other people do and we are all in this world together.

Enough rant.... 

[Pox Eclipse]

This presumes that anyone who wants insurance can buy it.  This is not true; many people with pre-existing conditions cannot buy health insurance at any price.   Are they doomed by their bad luck to suffer and die simply because the insurance industry can't figure out how to make money off of them?  Or should government create regulations on the free market, requiring insurance companies to cover anyone who applies, at a reasonable rate?  Or should there be a public option, available to those who the insurance industry doesn't want anyway?

The position that health care is a luxury available only to those with the ability to pay ever increasing costs is a very cynical and selfish argument.  If I am having a heart attack, I am in no more of a position to dicker with the hospital about the price of my care than I would with the fireman who could force me to sign an invoice when my house catches on fire. 

[MountainDon]

.... many people with pre-existing conditions cannot buy health insurance at any price.   Are they doomed by their bad luck to suffer and die simply because the insurance industry can't figure out how to make money off of them?  ...

Exactly!! That is where we both are. If it was not or the NM state health insurance alliance neither one of us would be able to find health insurance. I must give credit to Gov Bill for that even though we don't see eye to eye on many issues. In my case it's because of something that is partially hereditary. In K's case it's because she has had several pre-cancerous skin "bumps" removed over the past 15 years. [She is a fair skinned blond (hereditary again)]

[NM_Shooter]

Emergency services are a different thing entirely.  If you have blood pouring out your leg, your house is on fire, or the police bust a meth lab, I'd say that those are well supported needs that should be attended to.  

We already have an overload on medial services in the US.

If you have "Y" amount of resources, and divide that by "X", you come up with a value.

If you divide that Y by 3X, the value goes way down.  Here's a simple model :

inexpensive
high quality
fast access

Pick any two of the above and throw out the third.


I am furious that I might have to pay additional TAXES in order to provide healthcare to others which would also further decrease the quality of service that I would receive.  

So folks that pay nothing (in taxes) have access to the same product and services that I pay increased taxes for?  You will never sell that idea to me.  I already am upside down as are many of you when it comes to benefits received vs. taxes paid.  

The overwhelming opinion of socialized medicine in other places in the civilized world is that it sucks.

I am a pure capitalist.  I believe in competition.  I believe in working for a living.  I think that cash is king, and that anyone who goes bankrupt due to mismanagement of their lives should never be allowed credit of any kind again.  I think that you should not buy, nor are you entitled to anything you can not purchase on your own.  

Why do we nurture those who provide little or nothing in return?









 

[NM_Shooter]

This presumes that anyone who wants insurance can buy it. 

No.  This presumes that anyone who wants healthcare can buy it.  Insurance is a game that big companies play.  They don't do it to be magnanimous... they do it to make money. 

Okay.. how about a compromise. 

Let's let the government collect increased taxes only from those who want socialized medicine.  From these funds, the government sets up their own healthcare system... much like the VA hospitals.  No additional funds will be used to support the program.

Other folks can just stick with the insurance and healthcare they can buy on the free market.

[Sassy]

Since I work in a healthcare setting (hospital) - and it is a Federal institution - the Veterans Administration Medical Dept & also work in the ER I see things 1st hand.

There's pro's & cons for the basically socialist VA medical care.  We (my co-workers & I) see tons of abuse of the system by those who don't have the income to even have to pay a small co-pay.  Instead of waiting to see their primary care provider, they just drop in on the ER - so we are backed up all the time in seeing non-emergent cases.  Some of these same people will call the ambulance when they have a pain in their finger - believe it or not, we had a patient come by ambulance for a finger that was aching - of course, because they didn't have much income, they won't have to pay for the ambulance. 

Those who have worked, maybe have a home & saved a bit during their lifetimes are the ones penalized for being responsible.  They get no freebies but carry the weight of paying for everything.  Just last week, there was a patient who came in on the weekend, from out of town who had run out of some medicine.  He has spent all he has on medical care for his wife who is dying of cancer - none of it has helped.  But he still has to pay full price for his medications & a large co-pay to be seen at the VA ($50 a visit).

The same thing happens in the community & private hospitals.  They are inundated with people on welfare & illegal aliens - that is why so many ER's have closed down across the country.  I have friends & my sister who work or worked in ER's.  My sister finally couldn't stand it anymore & got out of the ER - went back to school & got her nurse practitioner.

Yes, I feel like if someone needs emergent care, they should be able to get it - the key word is EMERGENT.

I go to the doctor, actually a nurse practitioner about 1-2x's a year & have to pay a co-pay although I have good insurance that I pay for.  Yes, my employer picks up part of the cost but I still pay the insurance & a co-pay.  I was very thankful I had it when I ended up in ER & then the hospital for a week & had surgery last spring.  I still had to pay a hefty co-pay. 

What I see happening is a lot of those who don't have to pay take total advantage of the system for every little ache, pain or sniffle.  They'll even call an ambulance out if they don't have transportation.  Since they have no responsibility for paying, they seem to feel entitled to EVERYTHING! 

What checks & balances will there be since there doesn't seem to be any for Medicare, social security, welfare, or the public school - as of right now you don't even have to be here legally to get these benefits that are breaking the back of US citizens & those who have had to jump through hoops to be here legally.  Even all the foreign docs & nurses I work with think it is crazy how the US pours out all these freebies on people who have no intention of paying into the system or are breaking the law. 

Sure, the pharmaceutical companies have to go through years of testing on new medicines but seems like they - at least those at the top are making plenty of money.  The VA has contracted with the pharmaceutical co's for a discounted price on medications.  The lobbyists are spending millions $$$$ to fight that with this new health care plan.  I know someone who is an attorney that investigates Medicare fraud - he says it's terrible.

I also know docs that can't make it in private practice because they can't afford to pay their staff, keep an office open, pay for malpractice insurance & see patients, due to the poor reimbursement.  I see very few new docs who aren't from other countries.  I could name on 1 hand the doctors I work with who are from the US & that is at the VA!  These docs have come over here legally to get their education & are working legally.

There's only so much blood letting that can continue until the whole system crashes on itself - right now it's being held up by smoke & mirrors as it is.  Those that are paying for the systems are tired of those who laugh & kick us in the teeth as they rape the systems.  Our politicians & those taking advantage of all the lack of requirements or system checks are laughing at what fools we are.  There are a few who have some dignity & a moral compass of what is right & wrong, but most of our leaders are showing the way for taking advantage of the systems put in place as a safety net with a total disregard for the rule of law.  Make them be under the same health insurance systems & the same social security system as their constituents, then we'll see some changes!

[Sassy]

The position that health care is a luxury available only to those with the ability to pay ever increasing costs is a very cynical and selfish argument.  If I am having a heart attack, I am in no more of a position to dicker with the hospital about the price of my care than I would with the fireman who could force me to sign an invoice when my house catches on fire. 

We have friends who had Glenn clear all the brush off their property last spring.  They were burning the small stuff & it got out of control so they called the fire dept.  They were told that since they were doing what was required for clearing the land to prevent fires, there wouldn't be any charge.  Then a couple months later they get a big bill for the fire dept coming out.  Yes, at least in our county, they will charge you, if they have to come out, even though they just levied another hefty tax on land owners for the fire dept.  So much for tax paid services...   

[StinkerBell]

Sassy... I understand your last few post. I get it!

[Sassy]

Sassy... I understand your last few post. I get it!

[Pox Eclipse]

I am furious that I might have to pay additional TAXES in order to provide healthcare to others which would also further decrease the quality of service that I would receive.

Is that what the Republicans are proposing?  Because that is not in the bills proposed by Democrats in either the House or the Senate.

The overwhelming opinion of socialized medicine in other places in the civilized world is that it sucks.

If this is what you have heard, you have been grossly misinformed.  Most people in countries with universal health care wouldn't trade places with you in a million years, and think America is terribly backward in its health care system.

Why do we nurture those who provide little or nothing in return?

Why do you defend a health care system that inflates your insurance premiums and fees for medical services?  Do you like spending more money for medical care than any other industrialized nation?

[Pox Eclipse]

Okay.. how about a compromise.  

Let's let the government collect increased taxes only from those who want socialized medicine.  From these funds, the government sets up their own healthcare system... much like the VA hospitals.  No additional funds will be used to support the program.

Other folks can just stick with the insurance and healthcare they can buy on the free market.

You have just described the public option plan that the Democrats proposed in the House of Representatives.  Those who want to be covered by the public option will pay premiums to the government; those who want private insurance can pay inflated premiums to the health insurance company of their choice.  The bill is specifically written to ensure the plan is self sustaining, with no increase in the deficit.

Congratulations, you are now a liberal.

[NM_Shooter]

Would that be why thousands of Canadians come to the US every year to seek healthcare?

You have not read the bill and obviously have no global awareness. 

You think taxes won't go up to support nationalized healthcare?  Where do you suppose all the extra money is going to come from to pay for all the healthcare?  The money fairy?  Their premiums will not cover the costs of everyone seeking care.  Name one thing the government has ever done cheaper or better than the private sector.

I'll stick with my healthcare thanks.  And you know what?  As long as I am paying for it, and it is my choice, it is none of your business.  Anyone who puts their hands deeper in my pocket should expect to lose them at their neck.

Why are you defending a bill that no one has read, was thrown together in a liberal panic, stuffed full of BS in the dark of night, and is being shoved down the throats of America?

Hold on... let me check...I'm still telling the truth, using logic, thinking for myself, possess an I.Q. over 75,working for a living, volunteering in my community, active in my church, participating in my kids' lives, expecting nothing for free, buying guns, and generally being productive.  Nope!  Not a liberal yet.  I'll let you know if it ever happens.  We can go and stand in the soup line together and whine about how bad things are.

[ScottA]

Interesting reading.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33214558/ns/politics-health_care_reform
This article on msnbc today says it will cost close to a trillion dollars and will be paid for with..."drumroll please"...increased taxes and spending cuts. So much for no cost to the taxpayer. Here's a hint...what has the government ever done that didn't cost alot of money?

[ScottA]

Just for fun I'm going throw out my solution. This is simplified for the sake of time.

1. Pass a law that no insurance company or parent company of an insuance company can own any intrest in a hospital, doctors office, drug company etc.. Also remove the trade restrictions on insurance.

2. Remove the lawyer like licencing system that doctors have and replace it with a standard test for each field. Allow nurses more power to treat minor illness.

3. Eliminate the mountain of regulations that doctors and hospitals must comply with.

4. Make it impossible to sue a doctor or nurse for malpractice. If they do something wrong charge them criminaly and let a jury decide.

5. Put a stop to the ER free clinic system.

6. Educate people not to go the ER for every sniffle.