Mines, Panning Gold and Historical Exploring

[MountainDon]

... Glenn's been gold panning...

Glenn, do you use a steel pan or one of the new black plastic pans (makes the gold stand out against the black) with a semi rough surface to help hold the gold?  :-?

I've been reading a book about the 49er's. Just googled "gold panning". It would appear that today, as back then, most of the money made prospecting for gold will be made by those merchants selling supplies.    It should keep him out of trouble though, I suppose.  :-/

BTW, I saw the couple that sold us the mtn. property last week. He asked me if I was aware there was gold on the land. Gold? Tell me more I said. According to him while he was dowsing for water (that I knew about) he also found gold. He told me where. I gotta say I'm not much of a believer in dowsing; "Skeptic" would be prominent in my personality profile.

[glenn kangiser]

I've got a black, green and maroon gold pans, Don.  I figure whatever works.  If I had a tin one I would burn it to get rid of the grease and blacken it.  I'm just getting started on this.  Also exploring mines.

If I die doing this -- I don't want any of that philosophical "Well -- at least he died doing what he loved" crap-- I want to see some genuine heart felt emotion.

Just funnin ya-- I'm careful (most of the time).  30 to 40 miles of dirt bike ( Dual Sport 200) riding today -- first time I've been on a bigger bike in 25 years I think - except for a short ride or two.  Didn't even crash and good thing -- we were riding on the edge of the earth most of the day.

Last time on a bike was when Sassy and I rode across the desert on that Honda 70 wearing nothing but a....

[MountainDon]

Well, you piqued my interest Glenn and son-of-a-gun there was gold in NM! And apparently still panable! All I need is another pursuit.  :-/ Maybe I need to take a few days off and go prospecting?

Oh, BTW, the Spanish Queen mine site is sorta visible from the road, but behind or maybe on private property. Nobody was home. From the top down it would be one heck of a hike/scramble, not to mention a rough 4x4 trip most of the way before the hike.  :-/

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds cool, Don.  Grab yer pan and get after it.  You already have that prospector look.  Time to make good on it.

Spanish Queen sounds interesting.  We went to the Ace in the Hole early today - pretty full of water, and the Feliciana Mountain Mine -- now only a pile of rocks on a very obscure road but it was a blast hunting for it and finding it.  Had to follow very tiny road lines on a topo map to find it.  I Google Earthed it and Acme Topo'd it.  We did good because my friends had looked for it before and never found it.  Just a few chunks of quartz amonge the other rock but we positively identified it.

[benevolance]

Glenn

It is a cool notion to think that you can go panning and get rich... what is your best experience? In terms of spending a day /week or whatever panning...how well does it pay to pan... on average?

I have heard of people quitting their jobs to pan and they make a decent living

what are the rules...can you just go to the river and start panning without a permit or stake claim?

[glenn kangiser]

I'd say - don't quit your day job.

To me it's more like fishing.  There are places you can pan and explore mines and places you can't.

I have spent about $60 for diesel on 3 trips in the last week.  I have probably about $.50 in gold flakes and dust. --maybe $3.00 worth.  There is something cool and relaxing just digging and panning sand and gravel thinking that sometime there may be more than a flake(s), dust, or nothing in there.

To me it's more about seeing what it was like to be a miner in 1849.  Most of them went broke.  The store keepers were the ones who made the money selling them mining supplies and food.

Even John C. Fremont had a hard time making a go of it and he had the best claim around - Las Mariposas Grant of which our property was a part.  He finally sold it all.  A very hard way to make a living with only an occasional lucky find.  With government regulation now it is really hard.

Some do OK but not too many.

I understand you can still stake a claim but you can no longer patent the land -- (have the government give it to you).

[benevolance]

interesting stuff

Read somewhere about a couple guys out your way that retired to work old claims or a old mine...Seemed they were doing really well...

[glenn kangiser]

I know stories of some who did so well that the IRS came after them.  They promptly sold their stuff and shut up.  The ones that do good don't talk a lot.

I know one who stays pretty quiet -- squeeks by but not rich.

I know others like me who just enjoy looking and studying the history.  Find a little but don't expect to get rich.  The old stories tell  many times of companies investing fortunes only to go bust soon or never get started.

[glenn kangiser]

Nearly forgot-- this evening's explorations.

I decided to see if I could get close to one of the old mines on some mountain roads with my truck. Most are locked - private etc.  

I took off up this road - following my Google Earth printout.

I located the curves of the road so I'd know where I was.  Didn't print the real locater map so wasn't exactly sure where it was but I was within a 1/4 mile or so.  Followed the road to a no trespassing sign - no place to turn around so continued to the house to turn around.  I saw the lady come out to the yard so I stopped to tell her I was just looking for the old historic Whitlock Mine.  

She was a bit interested as she knew she was on mine property from the old days.  I talked to her a bit and she asked about where I lived -house etc.  She had heard of an Underground Hobbit home she said -- turns out our renter had been there that day to take off a junk car for them.  Small world, eh? She heard about our house from a neighbor also.

She said there was a diggins down the road a few hundred feet and showed it to me -- she thought it was too small to be much -- maybe, but I checked it out and at least it had tracks coming out and an air line running in.  Under more brush was a tailing pile I would estimate at 300 to 500 cu. yds. She told me if I wanted to check it out , to have at it - just don't cave their road in.  :-/

So I got out the axe and started chopping out brush -- wow -- too much like work -- went back to the truck and got out the Ryobi 18 v recip. saw.  There -- that's better.   Still hard work - that brush tangles up and some was about 15 feet tall.




Here are the bikes from yesterdays outing.  We took the younger guy back and us two old dudes went again and located the Feliciana Mine.  I rode the right blue one.

[tanya]

We have gold mines all over the place here.  Lately the powers that be have been drilling at about four am each morning then along about 8:30 there is a big BOOM and my dogs wont go outside the rest of the day.  They are closing up the mine shafts so no people get hurt I suspect.  I go out walking quite often over the mountains looking for my horses when they run away and I have come quite close a time or two to falling into one of those air shafts.  The big mine entrances though, you wouldn't fall into one of those they are huge like a big cave.  Back in the early 1900's the railway ran from the mines up on the mountain right past this house. This house is actually the old depot.  I heard that some people can just pan the dust from around the railroad beds to find some gold.  I think I may just go buy me a pan because I could sure use the money and I think the pans are pretty cheap.  They sell them right here in town at the Radio Shack, no kidding.  Where would I get the money for my gold though if I do find some and if I found a lot would I get to keep it or would it be the mines gold?  I think the mines still hold the mineral rights for most of the property in this county.  

[glenn kangiser]

That's part of the hard part about it.  It is necessary to get the permission of the person or entity who owns the land to be legal pannning or mining there.  I have never found enough to sell but some people get some nice pieces.  Most of the people I know just do it as a hobby.

There are places on BLM land and some other places you can pan with no trouble.  Many more places to pan that there are to use a big dredge.  I usually go on BLM land here.

It's a bit like the lottery though -- maybe the next one is the big one.

Some jewelers buy and some rock or mineral shops will.  As I mentioned - I haven't had the problem yet.

I forgot if you said what area you are from, Tanya.  Sounds like interesting mines - there are potential danger areas though - some real dangerous.

[glenn kangiser]

Found another historic mine today - probably started around 1860.  It looked as if no one had been there for years.  Last worked a bit before  1950 then apparently blown shut.  It had produced about $500.000.00 in gold mostly before 1900.  Gold was around $20 an ounce then I think I read.

There was about a 900 foot main shaft and 600 foot adit per the book.

I located it by hiking down hill through brush and poison oak until I found an ancient road that showed on an old map.  About 350 foot elevation drop but twice that or more back to the top.  Doesn't sound like much but it was a heck of a hike for an old fat man.



About the only real noticeable thing on many old mines is the tailing pile.  This one appeared to have some decent ore left in it and the mine was said to have been shut down with a lot of good ore in sight.  Transportation and milling costs were too great to keep it operating.  Price of gold is up now but so are costs to do things and regulations.



Many times the only indication of a tailing pile is an unnatural hump in the ground.  I get used to spotting them but I even had to look a while for all of this one.

[tanya]

I live in N Central WA in a little mining town that was once a big mining town.  I think the miners took all the gold though.  There doesn't appear to be very many wealthy gold panners here.  I think the gold they get is in the ore and it has to be preocessed to get it out.  To bad the new mine that is going in though, they found a huge vein right on top of the road way back when and ever since then they have been trying to get the permits to open it up, I think now that they moved their tailing ponds off the headwaters of some pretty significant creeks they might actually have a chance.  We need the jobs but not the mess so it is a give and take thing.  The caved in mines are dangerous and that is why they are blasting htem shut but I still think those air ventilation shafts are even more dangerous because you can't see them out walking around.  They are jsut there all ofa sudden and then you are happy you didn't fall in.  I am so much more careful when I go out walking these days.  

[MountainDon]

I just read sometime in the last week that panning on BLM or Forest Service managed land (I like to be clear on that; it's all public land, our land.) is allowed without permit or other permission requirements as long as you do not utilize machinery.

[glenn kangiser]

That is what I seem to see.

Some of the BLM people ad other Public Servants have forgotten their place and are drunk on their own power.  I just talked to a friend who said that they broke into and trashed his cabin and took him to court for squatting on his own private land because they had failed to check even the parcel number or if it was private.  It took him 2 years in court to prove it was his.  Public Servants.

[benevolance]

that is when you need a gun and enough nerve to shoot the government employee...

[MountainDon]

I've had some personal runins with overzealous BLM employees in a couple UT offices. On the other hand, we have a super BLM land manager here in the BLM Socorro office. He's spearheaded a very friendly motorized user recreation area. So they're not all bad, but the bad ones are memorable.

Peter, Nah, I don't want to have my own private room as a permanent guest in a government gray concrete building. (There is still a death penalty in NM, but only one execution since 1976).

But I would very much like to see government employees held accountable, and if guilty of a serious wrongdoing fired or at least demoted.

[benevolance]

Don

Be a martyr man! Do it for the rest of us... join the cause!

Come on! Where is your pioneering spirit... Man I was thinking about you this week while trying to get up mountains to look at land to purchase....Dude I found it...my dream spot.... Tennessee is great too...No income tax... the county I was in no building inspector no codes no permits... do what you want....

I made an offer on the property before I came home today...I barely slept last night....

We only have minor elevation here on the east... it is somewhere between 2000 feet and 2400 feet... on top of the mountain...I can buy as little and as much as 240 acres from the guy...I made an offer on 80- acres....  All hardwood trees Oak and Maple..It was selectively cut 23-25 years ago...So half of the trees are mature (bigger than a 5 gallon bucket) and half are the size of a gallon apple juice can...

The real estate guy had a 4x4 so we got up...I took my wife later in the car and we only got half way up the gravel road....The road was gravelled perfectly... the road was just so damned steep... Nice flat wide straight road though to the property..Pretty flat, lays well with slight rolling hills on top of the mountain where the land is...the ascent to it is a bit extreme... I like that though... no nosey neighbors bothering you... unless they have a 4x4..In time the steep hills can be plowed down at the top and the grade can be made more agreeable... In time when I get access to a dozer or excavator

I wonder what hardwood logs are worth? I mean if I cut them let them dry and sawed them into boards for customers or planks or whatever for furniture... I wonder what the market would be for hardwood logs?

If I could selectively cut on the property hardwood logs and saw enough to sell $10,000 a year I would be all set..It is tax free money (legally) I could sell a few cars and do a little repair work....and be all set...with 80 acres of woods I would never log it out not im my lifetime... it would be a totally manageable renewable resource..

we may need to pass the hat around if I buy it...No money to build on it for a while... I figure you or Glenn will come vacation on my land and get me started on sawing some hardwood boards  ... or a 20x 24 cabin raising or some such.... My wife has already started asking questions like...What would we live in... she would be upset if I built something like a permanent lean too

I have thought about it...

The house in the City has to go I can see it now...

[MountainDon]

... 2400 feet... on top of the mountain...

They call that a mountain??     Just funning with ya, Peter.     You'll need to get the old Scout all fixed up to access the place. Steep grade low traction roads are the nemesis of a front drive car. You should have tried backing up it. Like the old timers with Ford Model T's would do, but that was because reverse was lower geared than first gear forward.

The land and trees sound cool. I know what you mean about not being able to sleep with thinking about it.

So how would ya get one of those trees into a 5 gallon bucket?   :-? :-/ And why?  

We've ear marked a few small Doug Firs that will need to be thinned as they are too close to other trees... potential Christmas Trees. We may try root balling one and then transplanting it.  :-/

We're heading g back up tomorrow with the supplies needed to complete the gazebo (I think I've got it all??). We need is some breaks from the rainy weather in order to do some staining and shingling the roof.

[glenn kangiser]

Shooten em just gets you in trouble, Peter.  I like the $5000 day use fee on my no trespassing sign.  I suggested that my friend post them and present the BLM dude with an invoice than go to small claims court and collect.

[glenn kangiser]

Also- Peter, steep roads can be a real bother in the winter -- like it could be walking time.  Sliding off of one in a vehicle is no fun and even sliding a ways toward the canyon will make you possibly have to change your underwear.  My road is about 250 feet down to the next slow down point-- make that slam down point. :-/

[benevolance]

Glenn

I have had people come here that were long time customers and they ripped me off and owed me money...I took them to small claims court and it was a waste of time

Hard to actually get any money out of them...

[glenn kangiser]

Yup -- the court confirms whether they owe you money or not then you still have to try to collect.  Quite a joke, but the possibility is there so may be a deterrent.  You gotta love the system, eh?

[benevolance]

Yeah the road is steep.... but it is flat and wide.... no extreme sharp turns....

What I was thinking was to make a few improvements to the road in time... take the edge off the extremely steep hills...Widen the road out a little more...a few places where it is wide enough for 2 vehicles already...Just make it a little easier to get up and down... a little safer for the wife...etc...

thankfully the snows are light here in the south... half a dozen snows a year... it is extremely rare to get a snow of more then 6 inches... usually just a inch or two of powder...

[benevolance]

at least in the moderate elevation of east tennessee..I have been checking on the weather and such....3 and 1/2 inches of rain per month usually...good moderate climate... 8-10 degrees cooler in the summer than Columbia South Carolina...WHICH makes me very happy....