Author Topic: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm  (Read 84293 times)

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Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2014, 05:17:51 PM »
Hey John,
When I bought my trusses a few weeks ago, I had them built with a 24 inch overhang.
I asked the engineer about shortening the overhang, he said I could cut the overhang (only) flush up to, but not touching the bottom chord.
If I am answering your question right ?

Todd my bottom cord actually stops at the outside of the wall.  There is a pressed plate connecting it with the top cord or rafter which actually sits on the wall.  So  ???

Offline astidham

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2014, 05:41:38 PM »
John, how I understood my truss engineer,  I could cut the rafter overhang back to the truss plate, leaving no overhang at all.
If I can remember, I will call him tomorrow to verify.
"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice"
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Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2014, 05:53:05 PM »
John, how I understood my truss engineer,  I could cut the rafter overhang back to the truss plate, leaving no overhang at all.
If I can remember, I will call him tomorrow to verify.

I was sort of thinking that because the ends of the rafters are not sitting on anything anyway.  I have and will remain to keep the sheeting inplace up until that point so nothing should move.  Just thinking two heads are better than one. Maybe someone else will chime in.

Offline Don_P

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2014, 08:12:54 PM »
Yes, you can cut any or all of the overhanging tail off but cannot cut any of the metal truss plate or anything inboard of that plate. If you look at the loads on each joint on your truss diagram, usually in the left column under the drawing, that particular heeljoint plate carries the highest tensile load in a typical truss.

Just for basic info each square inch of that metal plate is good for 80-100 lbs of shear, and there is a plate on both sides so double that. The size of the plate is a quick indicator of the magnitude of the load at a given joint. And those little teeth can flat out ruin your day  :P

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2014, 04:41:07 AM »
Thanks.  Sort of knew that in a laymans thinking.  The plates are 6X10.  The numbers that I am seeing that you referred to is

TCLL    30.0
TCDL   10.0
BCLL    0.0
BCDL   10.0

I would imagine that since the trusses were spec'd for 2.0 OC and I changed them to 16"OC  the loads would have probably decreased at various points throughout. How much I guess would have to be figured out if it was important enough at this stage.


Offline Don_P

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2014, 09:08:29 AM »
It isn't, just basic info on how to read the truss sheet. The section I was referring to is probably just below that section... but I'm glad you posted that. There is a problem though, double check the BCLL number. That is the bottom chord (ceiling/floor) allowable live load... zero? If so this truss is meant to support the ceiling underneath only and has no capacity as a floor. If it's meant for storage it would probably have a number like 20 psf and if for a floor 30 or 40 psf. I must be missing something, it looks like a fairly deep, 2x8 or 2x10 bottom chord, and it's in an attic truss configuration?

Offline Don_P

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2014, 01:57:35 PM »
John, I sent this email back after seeing your truss print but copied here for others;

There we go, see note 5... 40 psf live load, throw a party :)

More general info;
Under forces look at Bot Chord B-P, that is the tension at that heeljoint plate... 1849 lbs tension, actually that is the tensile load all along the bottom chord. 16/24 x 1849=1233 lbs
tension at your spacing, so under full load there is a heavy half ton
of pull on those truss plates. The top chord and web member have over
a ton of compression in places but those are wood to wood compressions
so the plates are really just holding the wood in alignment in those
places.

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2014, 02:06:51 PM »
Thanks Don.  I was about ready to cut & paste so as not to discourge others from using them if the application called for them.  BTW I sent you an E-mail back.

Offline Don_P

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2014, 05:32:15 PM »
Yes, I encourage people to use them, it makes a good fast building with an upper floor. One trick a friend showed me is to order them as cantilevered attic trusses with a 2' overhang. In that configuration the rafters spring from the overhang rather than the wall making the room inside wider. It is at the expense of making the roof taller and the truss usually has piggyback hats at that point where yours were one piece... never a free lunch. I've mentioned it a few times, I think someone could dry in a house in a week with Superior walls topped by attic trusses.


Offline dablack

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2014, 09:54:18 AM »
Just to comment on the overhang.  My bottom cord extended 4.5' beyond the front wall and 1.5' beyond the back wall.  My build was 26' wide and the trusses were 32' long.  This gave me a 19' wide room upstairs.  I like attic trusses too, but I had a problem getting the sheathing on that 12/12 pitch roof.  8/12 would have been better (for me......)   I set the trusses myself with a skytrac over a three day weekend.  The first day I set 3 and that really worried me that I wasn't going to get done.  Then I got the hang of it.  2nd day I got around 10 done and then the 3rd day I got another 11 done.  I did the last three the morning before they came and picked up the skytrac!  I had 27 of them to do.  (2'OC covering 52')

Austin

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2014, 07:41:52 AM »
A little progess on the apartment.  Got the shower temporialy installed.  Will have to wait until a little warmer temperatures (1F this morning) to permanently install due to adhesives and chaulking.  There is no heat in this area so it is basicly the same up there as it is outside.  In the picture you will notice a small alcove to the left which will be the toilet.  The sink which is a pedestal will sit almost centered on the opposite wall as the shower midways of the wall.  The blocking is for the sink attachment, towel bar and combination sink light bar and Flatscreen TV on the family room/kitchen area on opposing side of the bathroom wall(facing).  It is a 2X8 backer top of the screen hiding part of the shower wall. 



Also got approximately 90% of the Rafter Mate air channels installed.  The outlet near the ridge vent is 16" above the bottom chord of the ceiling portion of the rafter.  I plan on using R-30 which is 9-1/4" so there is no worry about covering the outlet of the vents. The electrical outlet box centered high on the kneewall is for lighting in the storage area.  That is if I can find a good 4' flourescent unit that is worth taking home.  That is the safest to use there so you will not hit your head on a low hanging incandesent bulb.



Still have to work out a small problem with the kitchen cabinets.  The end wall where the doorway to the outside is located is only 50" on each side of the door before turning direction into the rest of the apartment.  I have 2-26" corner units complete with Lazy Susans for each side.  But that creates a problem with my desire to place the cookstove & refrigerator on each side of the door.  I did look and was able to get an apartment range I believe it has a 20" width which might work but I was really wanting a ful size stove.  I have committed the sink to the wall with the large storage area behind as the vent pipe for it has already been installed.  I could move a full size stove to the opposite wall but that would interupt the majority of the large bank of cabinets. Even moving both the range and frig to the sidewalls that still leaves me in a delimia that I don't have a base cabinet 24" wide to take up the space on the end wall with the corner unit.  I guess I will figure it out even if I have to transform a upper cabinet unit to a base unit.  I can't run the recepticles in the kitchen until I figure this out. 


Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm (Lighting Options)
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2014, 12:45:51 PM »
Starting to rethink my lighting options for the kitchen area.  With a ceiling light centered in the room (12'W) it is basicly centered in the ceiling 6' width.  With kitchen cabinets against each kneewall I think that it may not cast enough light on the countertop expecially when you are standing in front of the cabinets working as you will essentially block the light.  I have thought that maybe track lighting installed on the sloped wall higher might work better.  The sloped wall is almost 40 deg slope from the kneewall to the ceiling and is 4' tall.  I could always use a regular ceiling light for general lighting but the track light would be better for task work at the sink and range area.   Has anyone ever considered or done this? 

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2014, 04:12:52 PM »
My personal preference is for a general illumination ceiling light plus, under the cabinet lights to better illuminate work areas. We have only counters around the walls under the cabinets.  A ceiling light with wall switch in a kitchen is a code requirement I believe.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2014, 04:25:03 PM »
My personal preference is for a general illumination ceiling light plus, under the cabinet lights to better illuminate work areas. We have only counters around the walls under the cabinets.  A ceiling light with wall switch in a kitchen is a code requirement I believe.

I would use the under cabinet lights Don if in fact I could install them.  With attic truss the best I can do is base cabinets.  No upper cabinets can be installed.  I will have a ceiling light but I am afraid that will just not be enough to the counter area.


Offline MountainDon

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2014, 05:48:53 PM »
 d*   never thought of that....  track lights sound better than just a ceiling light.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline Windpower

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2014, 04:37:52 AM »

Maybe install 'under cabinet' LED lights on the sloped wall above  the base cabinets

If you are interested I can find out what my electricians are installing (tomorrow I think) as under counter lights --- they are inexpensive IIRC 

Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2014, 05:46:16 AM »
Maybe install 'under cabinet' LED lights on the sloped wall above  the base cabinets

If you are interested I can find out what my electricians are installing (tomorrow I think) as under counter lights --- they are inexpensive IIRC

Not real sure how they would function as they are made to direct the light verticle which would be away from the immediate area that was needed.  That is why I was thinking "track" as I could adjust the light to that area.  Would be interested in seeing what you are installing though.  Maybe a possibility. Thanks for keeping me in mind.

Offline Don_P

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2014, 11:21:05 AM »
I think the lowest profile that might provide some downlight in a place like that might be something like an eyeball puck light of some sort. That would be a surface mount low profile led type light. By the time you get above head level a light would be behind you for most light types and I fear a track fixture where it would be in front of you would be too high profile and would get banged alot. We have done a garage apt with a kitchen like you're doing and it just has a center mounted ceiling fixture. It has worked but I've noticed a lamp on the countertop before. A sconce on a sidewall might help too if there is a sidewall close enough.
edit: a quick google, something along these lines?
http://www.allmodernoutlet.com/nora-lighting-mini-xenon-eyelid/?gclid=CKvUwaudpLwCFSUS7Aodql4Axg
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 11:55:47 AM by Don_P »

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2014, 01:56:06 PM »
I think the lowest profile that might provide some downlight in a place like that might be something like an eyeball puck light of some sort. That would be a surface mount low profile led type light. By the time you get above head level a light would be behind you for most light types and I fear a track fixture where it would be in front of you would be too high profile and would get banged alot. We have done a garage apt with a kitchen like you're doing and it just has a center mounted ceiling fixture. It has worked but I've noticed a lamp on the countertop before. A sconce on a sidewall might help too if there is a sidewall close enough.
edit: a quick google, something along these lines?
http://www.allmodernoutlet.com/nora-lighting-mini-xenon-eyelid/?gclid=CKvUwaudpLwCFSUS7Aodql4Axg

Don I have 5'6" at the intersection of the kneewall and the sloped ceiling.  Given that the base cabinets are 24" deep I can't envision knocking into them.  I have to go to Roanoke in the next couple weeks and that will give me an oppurtunity to check at the big box stores to see what is available.  Thanks for the link.

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2014, 08:22:32 PM »
Looks good, John..... I gotta get in here and see what is going on a bit oftener... :)
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Offline Windpower

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2014, 06:51:41 AM »


They are putting in Fluid View

Looks like ~$170 for 16 feet

http://www.lightingandlocks.com/di-0001.html
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Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2014, 07:01:01 AM »

They are putting in Fluid View

Looks like ~$170 for 16 feet

http://www.lightingandlocks.com/di-0001.html

Thanks Windpower but it looks like that is under the counter strip lighting and I don't think it will work for my application.  Wish I could put upper cabinet in.   :(

Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2014, 01:23:10 PM »
Anyone out there have a "drywall stretcher" that I could borrow.   >:(.  In my preparatrion of the next couple steps in the building process I thought I would take a little closer measurement on the spaces I am going to drywall.  The kneewall heigth is 5'8" .  The sloped ceiling is 49 1/2"  :(.  The ceiling is 68".  No problem on the kneewall & ceiling but I am coming up short on the width of my drywall on the sloped ceiling.  Putting a 1&1/2" piece is not an option. Even attaching it verticle ( 1/2 sheet still short)  I am not particularly intrested in buy 12' length sheet and cutting 49-1/2" twice and have a remaining 45" left over.   One option which I haven't given much thought to is cutting the drywall a tad wider for the ceiling and then bevel the portion where it meets the sloped ceiling suds.  Major PIA but would gain me a 1/2" or so.  But if I did that then I would have to bevel the top of the sheet of the sloped ceiling so that the two faces would meet to mud & tape. I have learned a long time ago that when you alter the straight edge you get a less than perfect fit and I don't want to end up with a wavy joint.  These joints are hard enough to get straight even if everything fit perfectly.

I had intentions of using 5/8" for the ceiling.  If I even went with 5/8" on the kneewall and sloped ceiling I would not gain a significant amount to make up for the shortage.  I may have to add a wooden strip in the cavity and then use some type of molding to cover that area.  But I doubt that I can find anything stock which has a 39-40 deg bevel on one face.  It would have to be handmade custom for that.

Guess I will have to ponder on this a while.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 02:02:14 PM by Redoverfarm »

Offline Windpower

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Re: Garage Apartment at Redoverfarm
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2014, 02:52:16 PM »


They used 'stretch dry wall' on the downstairs that has 9' ceilings --it was 4.5 feet  wide -- not sure if it would help .....
Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

Offline MountainDon

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Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.