Illegal Immigration; where do you stand?

[benevolance]

Glenn

We cannot prevent our jobs from going to China or Chinese products from coming here... These are fundamental aspects of Capitalism...If you want to mention that we should not trade with china because they are not a capitalistic economy then I can mention South America and the rest of Asia

I hate it when people cry for the rest of the world to adopt democracy and Capitalism...But when an aspect of Capitalism exposes weaknesses in America's economy and workforce they want steps taken to protect American interests, American jobs etc... That is socialism And it goes against every principle of Capitalism

For the Record I am neither a Capitalist or a Socialist..I like a fine balance between the 2 personally. But America has a lot of Conservatives and Capitalism reigns supreme in this country...Therefor the only way we can ensure jobs stay here is to buy American made products.

If that means we have to pay 15 or 20% more for our goods so be it..

I look at it this way...If the Quality is better...The 20% more you pay for it when you buy it is not a big deal because it will last longer...And if you are using products to make a living for example...You will get more work done with better tools and equipment etc...

It does not have to be a massive transformation. If say 10 of the market force refused to buy items not made in America...We are talking about 40 million people...This is a large enough number to support a  strong textile, manufacturing industry in this country...Which creates more jobs here..the money is made here it stays here... everyone wins..

There is a huge spin off effect...If we have people here manufacturing goods making a strong wage (as opposed to 7 bucks and hour at walmart) they have a little more money to spend on goods like american made clothes tools etc...

And because these people have better jobs and spend more money... the housing automotive sectors grow because these people are making more money and thus have more money to spend... And the people in the other sectors have more money... and so buying american products is within their budgets as well

This is a chain reaction cyclical thing... for the last couple hundred years this was the land of milk and honey because we made what we needed here by americans for americans... Now it is made in sweat shops in asia... our 100 dollar workboots cost 5 bucks to make the person making them earns 12 cents an hour! And the stockholders and Executives all make astronomical profits at the expense of the poor in Asia and the american consumer... Meanwhile our economy goes to the toilet...We have less quality jobs everyone working for minimum wage wal mart and gas stations.. nobody has any amount of money to spend so we have to buy junk asian made goods at walmart....Which makes  them even richer and perpetuates our downward cycle...

No guys It has to be american made for me... I still have enough canadian made underwear from home... I brought 25 pair with me when I came here Stanfields made in Nova Scotia... When I lived in Canada I tried to buy Canadian made clothing..The price was 30% higher...But the quality was amazing The clothing lasted twice as long so I think I ended up saving money.

When you buy junk at walmart you get what you pay for... Junk
The satisfaction of saving money will fade when you see the quality of the crap they sell at walmart.

I may be weird...But I find buying products from another part of the world instead of what we could make here..to be completely unpatriotic... I would rather see people burn the flag and piss on the constitution rather than sell out and refuse to insist on american made products.

[glenn kangiser]

Well, Peter.  What you are doing is only thinking on the little guy idealism of being patriotic.  It is a noble thought, but apparently the real patriotic way is to send our jobs all overseas.  Since it is our patriotic American Corporate business leaders sending our jobs away, I feel the only Patriotic thing to do is only buy Russian,  Chinese, Indian and Filipino made products.  Even our military is doing it.  Our computer systems for our fighter jets and bombers are now subbed out to China.  I recently read an article which stated that the Chinese have made modifications in our military computer hardware which allows them to own us if the wrong events happen.  They simply will have to give a command and our planes will fall out of the sky.

I did the American tool thing years ago.  Our capitolistic American companies shafted me.  I bought a Snapon impact wrench at triple what the other mechanics paid for their cheap Japanese Black and Deckers.  I had to borrow the Japanese tools to get my bolts loosened.  The Snapon was crap.

I bought a 76 Chevy 4x4 with a 350 trans.  The 400 trans held up too well -- wouldn't fail so Chevy put plastic thrust washers in the 350 to make it fail around 60000 miles of hard use.  Engineered failure to rip off the working man.

I have to fight the unions on my jobs.  Many Americans need their protection racket to hold down a job because they don't have the skills to stand on their own two feet.  The unions have inflated prices so much for work that corporate America is running away from them.  Prices for projects using public money are set at prevailing wage so double taxation comes into play.  Great for me as I charge the same or more for my work, but the taxpayers get the shaft as every hour a worker is on the job is probably average of $50 or more even if that worker could not hold down a job in the real world.

Don't get me wrong -- there are many highly skilled union workers and I have worked with many real decent ones. I'm just saying that there are many incompetants protected by the system also and many of them feel that they need to attack independent business people on the jobsite.  They have actual training sessions in the union meetings that teach them to do underhanded stunts to non-union and self employed Americans.  I had a few unemployed union members working for me who told me about it.  America has been made into a country of specialists by the education system.  Many of these people are incapable of doing anything else because they have been forced into a specialist situation and think they can't do anything else.  

"My Gawd -- I'm ruined.  I'm a rocket engine seal washer installer and now the US is using Russian rockets to send our satelites into orbit as they are more reliable.  I'm doomed."  

November 11, 2002
3.3 Million US Services Jobs To Go Offshore
by John C. McCarthy
with Amy Dash, Heather Liddell, Christine Ferrusi Ross, Bruce D. Temkin

This is a document excerpt EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

Over the next 15 years, 3.3 million US services industry jobs and $136 billion in wages will move offshore to countries like India, Russia, China, and the Philippines. The IT industry will lead the initial overseas exodus.

No, Peter.  Unlike you, I'm a real American.  I support corporate America by buying Chinese.

[benevolance]

Glenn

I am a real Canadian

It still seems weird to hear someone call me American...

[MountainDon]

Real Canadians live on the other side of the US/CDN border    
...fooling with ya' Peter

But you're not a real American yet either.

... am neither a Capitalist or a Socialist..I like a fine balance between the 2 ...

I really don't believe a capitalist economic system and a socialist economic system can coexist and work well together.

[MountainDon]

Back to Illegal Immigration

Below is a list of cities and counties that have sanctuary policies, according to a report by the Congressional Research Service from June 2007.

   * Alaska
         o Anchorage
         o Fairbanks
   * Arizona
         o Chandler
   * California
         o Fresno
         o Los Angeles
         o San Diego
         o San Francisco
         o Sonoma County
   * Connecticut
         o New Haven
   * Illinois
         o Evanston
         o Cicero
   * Massachusetts
         o Cambridge
         o Orleans
   * Maine
         o Portland
   * Maryland
         o Baltimore
         o Takoma Park
   * Michigan
         o Ann Arbor
         o Detroit
   * Minnesota
         o Minneapolis
   * North Carolina
         o Durham
   * New Mexico
         o Albuquerque
         o Aztec
         o Rio Arriba County
         o Santa Fe
   * New York
         o New York City
   * Oregon
         o Ashland
         o Gaston
         o Marion County
   * Texas
         o Austin
         o Katy
   * Washington
         o Seattle
   * Wisconsin
         o Madison

[benevolance]

Don

Capitalism and Socialism works pretty well in Canada...25 years ago there was much socialism imbedded into the economy...The economy was opened up a lot with free trade and nafta...And capitalism has been allowed to run wild... Still Canada is a country with strong social programs designed to serve the public...Education, health care, retirement... They even if indirectly have a profound effect on the economy in Canada...and as a Result Canada has a strange but successful mixture of Capitalism and Socialism

And Don I know I am not American Yet...I do not yet expect the rest of the world to serve the country I live in... When you get that attitude the holier than thou...that is when you know you are a real american

[glenn kangiser]

Peter when I was seventeen I sampled Canadian socialism.  I still don't know how they were able to get that much warm beer on one bar table.

[benevolance]

Glenn you need to explain better than that!

[glenn kangiser]

I went to a bar in BC with a friend when I was 17.  There was no ID check, beer was served warm as I remember and everyone bought more rounds than the table or I could hold.  The table was still full when we left.  At least I think we walked out of there. :-/

I thought I was walking 'til someone stepped on my fingers. :-?

[benevolance]

ahhh drunken memories

when you think you are invincible and all the girls dig you

[glenn kangiser]

I thought I was so cute in my light green plaid designer pants.

[benevolance]

i have never been drunk enough to wear plaid pants man... :-/

[williet]

What I DO want is jobs in America, staffed by citizens, born here or naturalized, OR LEGAL immigrants. The illegals can go back where they came from, or stay there when they know they can't sneak in and stay illegally.

That sounds great! How do we go about doing it?

American WORKERS not exactly the same as American Boards of Directors and CEO's who have the jobs of workers in other countrys. It really don't matter where the offices are located, What America needs are good jobs for Americans

[glenn kangiser]

i have never been drunk enough to wear plaid pants man... :-/

Before your time, Peter -- Light green plaid was cool. 8-)

[PEG688]

[


Before your time, Peter -- Light green plaid was cool. 8-)

 

Ah ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ya sure it was Glenn   Just keep tellin yer self that  

[benevolance]

No Glenn... no light green plaid was never cool man 8-)

I am a throw back..I still wear outdated clothes I drive antique vehicles and listen to vinyl records... I would never wear plad green pants man.... Some things are just never cool

Like the idea to wear polyester... what the hell were people thinking?

[glenn kangiser]

Dudes, I beg to differ.

1970's Mens Flares Pants

70s -Missing label- Mens green with tan accent plaid polyester flare pants with hook tab/zipper closure, four pockets and faux coin pocket on front left.

[PEG688]

Dudes, I beg to differ.

1970's Mens Flares Pants

70s -Missing label- Mens green with tan accent plaid polyester flare pants with hook tab/zipper closure, four pockets and faux coin pocket on front left.

I think you proved our point Glenn , thanks for making that crystal clear

[PEG688]

I am a throw back..

 

Yer right about that , I just don't think we can generate enought thrust to throw you all the way home to Canada eh!

Maybe a space shuttle launch , we could duct tape you to the hood  

[glenn kangiser]

In my favor, I didn't pick them out. :-?

[benevolance]

Sure Glenn...

Blame your mom...

[benevolance]

Peg

Well if you would rather instead of me living here I guess we could start a Mexicans to Whidbey Island website...and you could instead have a hundred thousand illegals sleeping in backyards where you live


I could make the web site say you are offering high paying construction jobs and that your community has lots of single young gals desperate to have anchor babies....

I mean if English speaking law abiding tax paying immigrants bother you so much

[PEG688]

Just funnin ya Petey

 We have plenty of damp arses here , taken over the D/W field and the painters ranks. Hard workin SOB's but damned sloppy , leave human pig $hit behind all the time. I'd fire our DW sub if it where me but thay are the cheapest guys going and the work , after you prod them turns out OK. But it's a struggle the whole way


Last job our other bidder was $3000.00 more than the Mex crew , on a small job. Mex crew $3500.00 , other bid $7000.00.    

I have no idea IF they are legal or illegal, not my job to check, I'm just a lowly carpenter.  

[benevolance]

Hey peg it is all good...a little funnin never hurt anyone...

Well..I dunno about you being just a lowly carpenter I am a lowly auto mechanic...

My wife thinks I am paranoid...But after the lengthy and difficult ordeal I went through to come to this country and to file papers...all the hoops you jump through to be legal...I firmly believe that 95% of the mexicans or guatamalans  or wherever the hell they are from are illegal...

No way they spend months of their lives isolated from their wives and thousands of dollars to get a little piece of paper...When they can just jump across the rio grande

[glenn kangiser]

I didn't say it was my mom, Peter.