14x24 in the Black Hills

[MountainDon]

How far a distance do you have to 'shoe in?  That's getting to be serious weather when your own tracks fill in that quickly.

I think you are on the right track. If it was me, I would likely snap the line as horizontal as possible near the peak. Install the ties. Then measure down the rafter from the chalk line to the bottom and mark the lower edge of the T&G.


BTW, those ties across the rafters up close to the ridge board are collar ties. They help keep the roof from peeling off at the ridge under high wind conditions. Rafter ties are located lower, in the bottom third.

[mpls_ham]

Normally it would be about 3 miles to get into the cabin but a neighbor about a mile past me is having a log cabin built so they have been plowing the main road in.  I only have about 400 yards from the road that I need to shoe in. 

Thanks for the info.  I think my ridge board is about 1" out of level from end to end which is throwing off my measurements.  I suppose when I trim out my cabin I will be able to hide some of these errors.  Thanks for the terminology correction.  It's hard to state what you mean when you don't know the terms

Brought my dog with me and he non-verbally told me he won't come up again without a haircut


 

[MountainDon]

We had a Cairn Terrier. That photo brings back memories.  How's he do in the summer with all the sticky weeds? 

[mpls_ham]

I am in awe of how far plants will go to reproduce   We spend more time than I care to admit picking burrs out of him.  My favorite is when his ears stick together above his head in a bun.  I think we will shave him down in the next month or so.

[Sassy]

Normally it would be about 3 miles to get into the cabin but a neighbor about a mile past me is having a log cabin built so they have been plowing the main road in.  I only have about 400 yards from the road that I need to shoe in. 

Thanks for the info.  I think my ridge board is about 1" out of level from end to end which is throwing off my measurements.  I suppose when I trim out my cabin I will be able to hide some of these errors.  Thanks for the terminology correction.  It's hard to state what you mean when you don't know the terms

Brought my dog with me and he non-verbally told me he won't come up again without a haircut


 

How cute    He looks like he's saying "Daaaaad!" with those soulful, reproachful eyes...

[John Raabe]

  I don't think I'd be too happy either if I was carrying that in my undercarriage.  

My suggested caption to the photo "Give a guy a break!"

[mpls_ham]

I'm planning on building a shed porch and am looking for some opinions on the best way to approach this.  The porch would run the length of the cabin (24') and the decking would extend out 6'. The porch would also have full southern exposure.  My question is this....Should I run my porch rafters from the cabin top plates or do I nail up a ledger board below the eaves of the cabin and start there?  My concerns are mostly snow load.  The cabin pitch is 12/12 and currently sheds all snow.  The shed pitch would be 6/12 at best.  The cabin rafters are 2x6 at 2'oc and will not hold a lot of dead weight.  My preference is the ledger because I like the look better but I worry that snow would build up under the cabins roof and cause water problems.  I'm at the point that a decision needs to be made soon before I lay the tin down.  To see what I'm talking about reference the pix at the top of this page.

Whatya think?

Thanks..

[John Raabe]

I think I would nail a ledger into the wall with enough distance between the two roofs so that you can work on the siding and flashing. Flash the lower roof so that any water coming between the two roofs will drain onto the lower roof.

[Redoverfarm]

I would have to agree with John on the ledger. I would go one step furher and lag bolt it to the structural supports of the wall.   Might I suggest 8' instead of 6'.  Your material would work out much better with less waste and I am sure that you will make better use of the space being it wil be 8' deep rather than 6'. 

[MountainDon]

Have you made an end elevation drawing so you can see how much pitch you can get on that shed roof?

You are right; going by the snow load map up there shows a lot of 50 and 60 psf and those rafters are close to that limit.

You most likely will get snow build up where the 12/12 meets the shed roof. My neighbor in the Jemez has a similar setup. The big difference is his shed roof is over a wider room and is likely only 4/12. He cut the rafter tails off the 12/12 roof and placed the shed rafters on the side wall top plate. That way the load at that point is supported by structural members and not just mechanical fasteners (nails or lag screws). It also gains some height which may be advantageous. At least your finished roof is not installed yet, his was and it meant a lot of extra work. The outer end is supported by columns and a beam with the whole works on oiers and footings just like the rest of the cabin. He covered the entire valley where the shed meets the 12/12 with snow & ice guard. As far as I know he's not had any leaks.

If it was me I'd even have considered starting the shed rafters part way back up the 12/12 slope in order to get more slope on the shed. That would likely have meant using a larger rafter though. I'm guessing on that, but it seems that method would introduce a higher load midway up the 12/12 rafter where the shed roof ties in.

[Redoverfarm]

They actually make a metal transition piece if you decide to go with metal roof.  It is like a piece of valley metal which gets tucked under the upper roof and rolls over the lower.  Like Don stated I would use a layer of Ice Guard on the sheeting of asphalt roofs and metal roofs if you are not using purlins.  I used a drop in my porch shed roof from the main roof 10/12.  I installed a soffit on the main roof.  There doesn't appear to be any build up of snow in that area.  You will however need to provide a vent system from the porch to the main roof if you do not have a drop in elevation between the two roofs from which to draw air.

[mpls_ham]

My original plan was to ignore the porch this summer and concentrate on getting moved in by fall.  (We also wanted to determine if it would even be necessary because the porch will block all direct sunlight from our front door and windows.)  Running the porch directly from the top plate would require that I get started on it as soon as the snow melts.

I've drawn it out and I think the drop to the ledger would look the best.  My cabin gable overhang is two feet and the porch roof would be no wider then the cabin walls. 

Red - I thought about the two extra feet but it only decreases my pitch.  The main function for the porch is to allow access in the winter, easy firewood access and ride out an occasional thunderstorm in the summer.  Maybe coffee in the morning ;-) We will create a patio area outside the sliding glass door with a fire ring, picnic table for our outdoor comforts. 

If I had my choice I would use the ledger below because of asthetics and my summer plans would not be altered.  What I don't want is 10' of snow piling up at the top of the porch and stressing/crushing the cabin roof. I can beef up the porch to hold alot of weight but my cabin roof cannot be beefed up at this point.

The $10,000 question is:
Will a 6' deep porch with metal roofing at a 4/12 pitch and southern exposure drop 10 – 20 feet of snow off it during the course of a winter.   

Thanks again for reading my blathering and helping me work this one out.

[MountainDon]

Well, we have a metal roof on the cabin at about 5/12 pitch. The snow piles up on iy and does not slide off until the tempersatures modersate and get above freezing. Otherwise it sits there.  Ditto on the 4/12 metal roof on the house in town. And the neighbor I mentioned up near our cabin always has a pile of snow that has slid down off the 12/12 to the lower pitch, until it gets warm enough.

Our snow falls are not usually more than a couple feet at a time and it usually warms enough for it to melt and slide. Historically though there are a couple storms within the past 25 years when over four feet fell in a couple days and it stayed cold. That was why my roof was designed to a snow load of just under 90 pounds.

[Redoverfarm]

I had originally considered 6' porches on my house as well as the cabin but ultimately went for 8'.  I guess you could get 12' decking and half it for the deck for 6'.  8' decking is just common as well as 16' which could also be halved.  I considered having rockers, gliders, chairs, tables and the like and thought I needed more room than 3' to walk past them along the outside edge.  Turns out the cost was minimal in comparison to the lesser size.

Last winter was a rather harsh winter for us with accumulation at one snowfall in the 3' range. The 10/12 pitched roof slid and pushed the snow off of the porch roof sending it some 20' out into the yard.

Here is a couple pictures of the main/porch roof with the stepdown.  With the pitch of the porch being 4/12 I would estimate from roof to roof there is approximately 16" difference.

[John Raabe]

Nice photos Redoverfarm - that helps everyone visualize.

I agree on the 8' depth of the proch. It make a huge difference in usability. 6' is everyone sitting with their backs against the wall.

RE: snow... Just beef up the rafters on the porch and wait out the snow. It will slide off by June  

[mpls_ham]

Thank you Red and Mt Don for helping me relink my pix to this thread.  Now I can get back to my updates.

[mpls_ham]

Well my job (excavation) has slowed down to the point that the "cabin reserve fund" has dwindled down to nothing so the cabin construction has slowed to a crawl.  It's killin me now that I have the time to build, I am unable to do so.  I did get the metal roofing up a couple of weeks ago.



There are plenty of things to do that cost little to nothing to do.  Now I just have to organize and prioritize (not my specialty )

[mpls_ham]

Well the summer has come and gone and the cabin is still not finished.  I broke ground a little over a year ago.  I was able to work the exterior on my trips up.  I was able to buy some old galv metal this summer and have been screwing it on to the sides of the cabin that will have snow against it this winter.  The rest of the walls will be board and batten.



 

[mpls_ham]

Its time to start working on the inside now that the porch is up.  I will complete the siding next summer and tie up the loose ends.  I'll have electricity by next week and will start by installing the woodstove.  I'm hoping the big snow will hold off until Christmas.



I'm hoping that the 2x6 rafters at 16oc will be beefy enough to hold snow if it decides to not slide off.

[Crappie Slayer]

I am totally digging the old metal siding job that you did... just curious how did you find all that used metal.  I just got the roof on my cabin as well,,, if you want to shoot me an email at okielawman28@yahoo.com we can swap some pics....

What did you do about all the existing holes that were in the old tin,,, are you worried about water damage to the walls through the old tin... did you caulk them up?

Anyways... I just liked the rustic look of the old metal...


Thanks

Chris
aka.... Crappie Slayer

[Sassy]

Guess I missed your place!  I like how you used the old metal   

We've used some on a couple roofs & a couple walls in the cabin...

[mpls_ham]

Thanks, I bought the metal from a rancher that pulled it off an old outbuilding of his.  I was considering finishing the other two sides of the cabin with board and batt but I like the tin so well I might do it all.

[SkagitDrifter]

Great project in a cool part of the world- my wife is from SD.
I used new galvie tin on the lower exterior walls of our cabin.
I can't wait for it to weather to the point of being rusty/rustic.  I was thinking there must be a process by which I could speed up the process- and then I thought... I must be nuts.
Your place looks great.  Keep up the good work.
Tom

[BRUTAL]

I agree, it looks realy good. to speed up the process wipe it down with muratic acid(pool supply)......or if you go to a big box store and look through their supply you might find that they left it stacked outside too long in the rain and has really started that same process early. i know the one by my house did just that and so did the next closest one. they had about 20 sheets that i would never buy if in the market for undamaged product. you might be able to talk the manager into taking out of inventory for a breatly reduced price

[OlJarhead]

I measured my from the floor of the loft up to 7' and then used a short 2' level to make sure they were all level...seems to have worked out...the trick will be the paneling but I think I have the answer for that:  wide paneling at the spot the collar ties sit