Alot of my trim in this house is made from the same tulip / poplar.
Once you use that, its hard to go back to pine.

Jewelry boxes headed for grand-kids in Florida ,


 


  Sides, doors , and drawer fronts are Cherry . The top and lower apron are quarter sawn Red Oak. 

Very nice PEG. Kept you out of mischief for a while. 

Lucky kids.

Very cool and memories for a long time.... built by grandpa to last forever.

Hey guys, I bet someone on here can help me with this.  I am trying to make a table for a friend.  I have a self centering dowel jig but only one 3/8 pin.  Do you think I will be able to line up my holes accurately with only one pin or should I go out and get some more pins.  I was thinking I might be able to take it out and move it from hole to hole, but I guess Ideally I'd have one pin in each hole and press them all at once.  Also any other dowel jointing tips would be appreciated.

Quote from: Mike 870 on December 30, 2010, 05:55:16 PM


Hey guys, I bet someone on here can help me with this.  I am trying to make a table for a friend.  I have a self centering dowel jig but only one 3/8 pin.  Do you think I will be able to line up my holes accurately with only one pin or should I go out and get some more pins.  I was thinking I might be able to take it out and move it from hole to hole, but I guess Ideally I'd have one pin in each hole and press them all at once.  Also any other dowel jointing tips would be appreciated.

 I'd bore all the holes that will hold the pins using a doweling jig.

Then insert the marking pin ,  in one of the outer holes, close the table to mark the first hole to be bored.  

After that hole is drilled , insert a dowel pin in the first hole,

Move the marker pin to the other outer hole on the other side of the table , mark , bore , insert dowel pin.

You may need to let the glue that will hold the dowel pin setup before you can move down the table, or the pin might get pulled out when you open the table.

Then  do the inner holes one at a time , as you add dowel pins the alignment should just get better, as pins are added.

  It would be important to use a good doweling jig and a sharp bit to prevent the bit from "climbing" left or right.

Hope this helps.

G/L PEG      

Thanks PEG,  I will post some pictures to show you all how it comes out.

Mike

  BTW Rockler sells a proper dowel pin for this application , slightly smaller pin end on the none glued in end.


http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=787

 

 

I actually had misunderstood my Dad's instructions.  I guess the pins are only needed if you want to do something off center.    I was able to lay out the dowel holes by pencil and it is coming out great.  I did get the dowels with beveled edges so they suck right into the holes as I tightened down the clamps.    1 more 1x6 will be added to make it 4.5 by 3 feet or so.  I am still trying to decide how to design the legs and skirt. Here is a progress picture.

Lag apron brackets like the below can make the actual mounting easier.

http://woodworker.com/1-12x3-apronleg-bracket-mssu-892-687.asp?search=table%20leg%20hardware&searchmode=2

I took your post as a table leaf, not a simple glue up. 

Quote from: PEG688 on December 31, 2010, 08:55:02 PM
I took your post as a table leaf, not a simple glue up. 

Ahh, now your post makes sense to me. Really cool little cabinets there, btw.

Yea, my orignal post was not too clear.  I'm just getting started woodworking so you probably have to back up to the basics on my questions.  Here is how it is shapeing up so far.   It is made out of poplar.  

No problem Mike.  Your off to a good start, and most folks here don't mind helping out , some times it takes us a bit to get to the "real" answer , but rabbit trails / thread drift call it what you will, stimulates the discussion IMO and I'm sure most folks here would agree.

We all learn something thru the process , even if that lesson is how to go about the process

 
  It's  seldom  that I use any "connectors" between boards on gluing up, biscuits don't add much if any strength and they really don't help with alignment at all. Dowels would add some strength and they do aid with alignment but again IMO they don't add much strength and they are a PITA to bore for.

Properly dressed boards that are 3/4" or wider that come together nicely after being jointed with either a power jointer or a jack plane   that are glued up with normal carpenters glue are fine , up to most edge glued tasks.

I see you have bread board ends on your table , I assume that joint is a mortise and tenon type joint , that's one of the key things to keep the table flat.  Another tip would be how your going to attach the to to the table aprons, are you aware of the importance of allowing for wood movement?


A few good books to invest in would be any thing by James Krenov , Tage Frig (sp) , Sam Maloof, and a recent find of my own , Darrel Peart , who deals mostly with Greene and Greene  style pieces , BUT his general knowledge of wood working would really be helpful to any level of Woodworker.

  And of course we here at C/P can work you thru most W/Wing related questions. There may be some different opinions at time but thats what makes it such a great resource of ideas.

Good lookin table, are you planning on painting it?  Poplar's  a great paint grade wood , but staining may be a option as well.

G/L with your project and  I look forward to future projects you may post about.

PEG       

Thanks PEG and all. I appreciate the feedback and compliments. 

I did use dowels between the boards, and it was quite time consumeing, so I'd definitly consider skipping next time around if they don't add much. I don't have a jointer so I do have some very small cracks between my board but nothing too offensive. 

The bread board ends do not have any jointing, but I could take them off and use dowels as I didn't use glue to attach them.  I was thinking of them more as a means to keep the table flat and give the glue/dowls some re-inforcement if anything else.  To tell you the truth I didn't even know what that was called a breadboard edge.  I also though it would serve to make the table look more solid because from the top you might think it's a 1.5 inch thick surface. 

I had planned to attach the aprons using scrap pieces with screws through from 2 directions, into the skirt and into the underside surface.  I am going to center the skirting on the legs. so i will not be able to screw into the breadboard edge.

My plan for allowing for wood expansion/contraction was to seal the surface with minwax poly so as to lock in the moisture content.   I just opened my minwax and it is rock solid so plan B was to buy some waterlox which I read about in a Fine Homebuilding article on makeing wood counter tops.  I have a hard time bringing myself to paint wood, even though it is just poplar I think with the right finish the grain can really shine.  I am open to suggestions for allowing for movement.  I had not thought it would be too much of a problem. 

I am going to the library in about a half hour so i will look for some of those books.  I love Green & Greene style so hopefully I can find that one. 

Quote from: Mike 870 on January 02, 2011, 05:30:35 PM
Thanks PEG and all. I appreciate the feedback and compliments. 

I did use dowels between the boards, and it was quite time consumeing, so I'd definitly consider skipping next time around if they don't add much. I don't have a jointer so I do have some very small cracks between my board but nothing too offensive. 

The bread board ends do not have any jointing, but I could take them off and use dowels as I didn't use glue to attach them.  I was thinking of them more as a means to keep the table flat and give the glue/dowls some re-inforcement if anything else.  To tell you the truth I didn't even know what that was called a breadboard edge.  I also though it would serve to make the table look more solid because from the top you might think it's a 1.5 inch thick surface. 

I had planned to attach the aprons using scrap pieces with screws through from 2 directions, into the skirt and into the underside surface.  I am going to center the skirting on the legs. so i will not be able to screw into the breadboard edge.

My plan for allowing for wood expansion/contraction was to seal the surface with minwax poly so as to lock in the moisture content.   I just opened my minwax and it is rock solid so plan B was to buy some waterlox which I read about in a Fine Homebuilding article on makeing wood counter tops.  I have a hard time bringing myself to paint wood, even though it is just poplar I think with the right finish the grain can really shine.  I am open to suggestions for allowing for movement.  I had not thought it would be too much of a problem. 

I am going to the library in about a half hour so i will look for some of those books.  I love Green & Greene style so hopefully I can find that one. 

  Bread board ends need to allow for lateral wood movement , doweling them on would be a bad idea.   A quick solution would be to use a slotted hole for the screws that hold it on, this would allow the main table to "move" , the slotted holes could be a simple as three or four holes angled to create a slot.

  Darrel's book would be best found going to his website ,

  http://www.furnituremaker.com/

  He'll mail you his book and sign it if you order it direct from him, I doubt it's in the library yet , the other guys books would b I'd think.

  Sealing wood with finish is a part of slowing wood movement , but it will NOT stop wood movement, wood moves thru out it's life. And oddly it's generally at it's smallest size in winter inside a heated building. 


  For attaching your top again the slotted holes will allow the top to move , tapping it or attempting to "hold it fast" will cause it to cup , buckle , twist , or crack, depending on how you are "holding it" , allowing it to float in grooves , oblong slots , connectors made for allowing wood movement is the direction you need to go.


  Darrel's also found on Face Book , Darrel Peart furniture maker.

I'll posta  few photo's of the bread board end thing in a while, I'll have to dig into my photo bucket acct.


   


     

I took a quick look and didn't find any great photo's of bread board end details. hopefully one of the books you find will address the issues related to wood movement.


  http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/34215-01-80.jpg

Table top fasteners from Rockler , page 85 , item # 34215.  For a idea on how to attach the top to the stretchers , I've never used this clip as you can make your own type of slotted deal to allow for the movement , but if you look at it in the catalog you'll get the basic idea of they how to and insights into the why of it.


     

Mike if you haven't considered the means to attach the legs to the appron you can use a hanger bolt http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=373   as pictued here to attach them to http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21578 corner braces.  These are flush mount but the kerf design will work also just requiring additional millwork,  Or in fact make your own braces from mitered pieces of hardwood stock.

In the picture I had not yet attached the leg to the apron.  I just attached the one leg to each apron piece that it touches.  Even without glue, it is very sturdy.  I think because it is butting against the bread board on one side and the fact that the apron is so tall ( 5.5 inches) where it connects to the legs it may not need much additional bracing.  If I feel it needs more braceing once I have fully connected all the legs to the apron pieces I may use some scrap to re-inforce the inside corners, but I don't think it will need more more than that. 

Do you think I am asking for trouble since I screwed the bread board on?

 I would  make a corner brace , I'd use some 5/4 poplar simply cut on two touching 45 deg. angles , take a jig saw and carefully notch the corner out for the leg , and glue and screw the corner brace on. You can also screw the table top to the legs thru the corner bracing , just wolly / elongate the hole the screw passes thru so the top can "move" if it wants. no glue connecting the top to the legs just screw pressure. The corners will be needed to stiffen the table thru the years.


 The tables pretty small , but if you watch the bread board ends thru the seasons  you'll feel the joint "move" as you run your hands across it , you'll notice the bread board end plank will be a bit "short" in summer when the tables MC makes it wider , and in winter it will be ever so long as the table shrinks in the warm dry house.

  It will be a  good lesson , hopeful for me anyway ( so I won't end up sounding like a pompous a$$ ) , you'll see,  or more feel what I'm saying about wood  movement.  Good dry poplar is very stable , and due to size and wood species you may get minimal wood movement.

I'd say leave it and see what I'm getting at.  It is your table right? You'll "live with it" so you can check back on the B/B end thing? I assume this.   

But read up on wood movement it's a interesting subject to a woodworker , keep in mind most store purchased furniture is NOT solid wood , but veneers over various substrates. Plywood is more stable than solid wood , and some time a veneered surface is the best choice.  Depends on a variety of things  , but with solid wood stuff , wood movement is always , or should be a consideration in the build.

             

Nothing pompous about wood movement, it has humbled me more times than I'd like to admit to. I breadboarded a small checker table early on, or I guess more correctly picture framed it. This restrained the outer edge. It split right down the middle the next winter. I reglued it and inlaid a spline down the crack, yup, that "working joint" repeated every year I owned the piece.

I've used the table top clips in a cabinet shop I worked in, they work well but i've also done the slotted screwhole trick and the price is right. I like to use a pan head rather than a countersinking screw for those to hold it flat, I think it lets it slide easier.

Tage Frid, with a "d"  

Poplar stains well also, a good finish man can really fool you with poplar, try a little cherry stain.

I will build the corner braces as described.  Thanks for the descriptions.  

The table is being built for a friend in return for a favor, but I will see it quite a bit and probably dine on it several times a year anyhow.  It will be and has been a good learning experience for me.

I picked up some cherry stain and tried it on a piece of scrap.  I also tried just plain gloss poly on some scrap too.  Not sure either is the look I'm going for.

The apron is not glued together yet, but I couldn't resist assembling it and seeing how it would look.  Here it is pre glue and pre finish sanding.  

Mike I used a Walnut stain for an entertainment center I had made from poplar.  Turned out real nice and even fools some that it is not walnut.  I thought I had posted a picture of it once I will try to dig it up.

Found it.

Wow what a fine piece of work Red.  As I finish up the corner braces I will expiriment with finishes and see what I like.  I think I need to test a larger area to get a feel for the cherry stain.