My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin

Started by MountainDon, December 20, 2006, 02:03:09 AM

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ScottA

I'd say you owe those guys a pizza Don.  :P

MountainDon

Barrel burning is okay here. We have one but it is elevated off the ground, we have a lid to snuff it and planned (before this fire event) is for us to move in several trailer loads of pumice stone to surround the immediate burn area.


Yes, there is a definite charred odor.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


MountainDon

Quote from: ScottA on May 18, 2009, 07:20:19 PM
I'd say you owe those guys a pizza Don. 

I/we think they still owe us a little more clean up... there's still a berm of ashes that should be hauled away, not to mention the value of the wood. Of course we still have at least 8 more cords stacked. Not to mention the barbed wire fence.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Abbynrml

Man that was lucky that it was stopped in time to save your cabin. Sorry to hear that it was your property. I think a visit to a lawyer might be in order. Your choice....

MountainKaren

Here's the whole story...

This will make your mouth fall open! On Friday afternoon (1:30 PM) Don received a phone call from our mountain neighbor, saying that our wood pile was blazing and there was lots of smoke. She also said that the fire department was there and the gazebo and cabin were O.K. In her second phone call, she said that the fire dept had called off the spotter plane and that she was going down the road to show the tanker (red fire engine) truck where to come. The tanker stayed at the bottom of our hill and the small trucks from Jemez Ranger Station, Bandelier National Monument, La Cueva Fire Dept., and Cuba Fire Dept. ferried water up the hill to the fire. There were about 20 fire fighters all together. The leader had ordered a helicopter drop, but cancelled it a little later when he felt things were under control. They cost ~ $10,000.00 a drop.

We decided to pack up our things after preschool was over and drive up that evening. We got there at 7:30PM. We passed all of the fire trucks on our way in, as they were leaving. Two of them stopped to talk and told us that we had done a great job cleaning up our property and creating a defensible space just west of the wood pile. Karen had just raked up the fall/winter pine needles and wood chopping debris, the weekend before. Because this was all dirt and a fire truck was able to set up base right there, the fire stopped there.

When we got to the woodpile our mouths fell open. There was lots and lots of ash and lots and lots of burned logs all along an 80 foot stretch. Our neighbor to the west, and two of his friends came from the west side of the fire scene and told us what happened. Our neighbor says that the night before he was firing some pottery in a steel drum. He put the fire out that night, like he has done many times before. The next day at noon, they turned around from the garden they were working on and discovered a large pile of debris was ablaze. They tried to put it out, but there was a strong wind blowing from the west and spreading the fire eastward (toward our property). They realized they had to contact the fire department, but they did not have a cell phone. Casey drove the 15 minute drive down to Sierra Los Pinos volunteer fire station. The boys say it was about 1 ½  hours until the fire fighters were on the scene and by then our woodpile was ablaze. The firefighters created a firebreak all around the fire and spayed tons of water on it. It burned between ¼ and ½ of an acre. In there was lots and lots of wood that Casey had put into piles (some of them teepee style). Don and I were planning to offer to help him clean it up this summer (take it to James' slash site for winter burning). It's definitely cleared of burnables NOW! Casey told us he was sorry and that he would replace our woodpile. We later told him that he doesn't have to replace the 8 cords of wood or repair the barbed wire fence that the firefighters cut down. We still have about 7 cords of wood and we will replace the barbed wire with a rope.

The next morning around 10:00, Casey and his two friends spent a couple of hours filling his pick-up truck with the burnt logs and making many trips to the slash site. We raked the ash back to the property line. There is much yet to clean up. Casey will have to cut down many of the small and bent trees. We are hoping that the large trees will survive. Eight trees that belong to us along the property line were charred at the bottom. The needles are looking dry, so we may end up losing those trees. We hope not!

Late Saturday afternoon a Jemez Ranger Station fire truck came up with three men and they hosed down some hot spots. On Sunday two firefighters came up from the west side (neighbor's side) and again watered a hot spot.



Dog

Whoa! Thankfully you guys had the good sense to clean the surrounding area around your cabin. That pine goes up like matches!

Glad to see you got the snowmobile out, but that seems like ancient history now.
The wilderness is a beautiful thing for the soul. Live free or die.

MountainDon

#781
Quote from: Dog on May 18, 2009, 08:10:02 PM
That pine goes up like matches!


Pine needles are a perfect fire starter fuel; better than newspaper. A good handful of them with a few pine cones on top and your stove or campfire is going!

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

For anyone who wants to see all the photos of the destruction.... GO HERE



The fire crew (approx 20 in number) turned over a lot of dirt as they made sure the fire was out.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

There were a few lucky things that helped along with all the work we did in thinning and cleaning.

Number one was that the neighbor was still on site when the flames broke out. He saw them and ran/drove to sound the alarm. Another was that out other neighbor down the hill had the day off work and was going to their place just as the convoy of engines were heading up the trail. They were able to unlock the gate, saving the fire fighters from cutting fence, whatever, to get in. And there were no other fires for miles, so there were enough fire fighters to respond quickly.


FWIW, I found out the standard size forest service fire trucks (patrol pumper) carry about 300 gallons of water. The tanker was much bigger and stayed at the foot of the hill as a supply truck.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


NM_Shooter

This is a tribute to how clean you keep your site.  I suspect that many other folks would have lost their possessions.  Nice work Don. 

I'm guessing that the trees will be okay as well.  Here's keeping fingers crossed!

-f-
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

MountainDon

#785
Thanks Frank. Today before we left we noticed there's a number of trees in the burned area that now have needles turning brown. Some all the way up, and some of the taller ones with still green tops. The thick bark of the Ponderosa can withstand heat.

We'll see how this living laboratory works out over time.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Alasdair

Whew! A close call. Lucky you had the foresight to keep your site so tidy of debris.
I will definately be looking closely at fire defensibility of our land!
Hope your trees are OK.

MountainDon

Quote from: Alasdair on May 18, 2009, 10:33:18 PM
...Lucky you had the foresight to keep your site so tidy of debris.

Thanks. I've seen fires over the decades and even more aftermaths.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

Quote from: NM_Shooter on May 18, 2009, 10:13:15 PM
I'm guessing that the trees will be okay as well.  Here's keeping fingers crossed!


Well, now, curiosity had me doing some seraching. Some facts...

Ponderosa Pines, our predominant species, is one of the more resilient conifers. They have deeper roots than most conifers so while hot surface fires may kill roots near the surface the deeper roots survive. That also helps them in times of drought. Their needles have very high moisture content. The long needles protect the terminal buds. It is possible that even with the needles scorched the buds will survive and be able to refoliate.

There is a wealth of info on Ponderosa Pines for the equally curious at...
http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/27253
and
http://cpluhna.nau.edu/Research/pinerestoration.htm

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


glenn kangiser

Close one there, Don. Glad you came out as well as you did.   I am familiar with that situation. d*
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Sassy

Welcome, Karen - sorry it had to be a story on such a terrible close call - glad everything is ok...  you just never know when something like that could happen. 
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

MountainDon

 d*    In all the excitement I forgot I got something constructive done!

I finished installing the end wall T&G SPF. Hooray! I had to face nail the transition from one pattern T&G to the other, plus the final strips so I need wood filler next trip. Then I'll clear coat it.



PLUS, I began the install of the interior window casings/trim. No photos though. I'll have those next time.

That's the window sill stock on the right.

Tile floor within the next month!!!
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

NM_Shooter

Hey... you have good taste in coffee tables.  We had that same table for 15 years.  The legs were chewed on by kids, and the top was scarred and covered in finger paint, fossilized macaroni and cheese, and you don't want to know what was underneath the table.

-f-
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

ScottA

Slow down Don. You're making me look bad.

MountainDon

 :D    I've still loads to do with the exterior, interior (tile floor), the final insulation in the attic...... 


Plus now we're going to clean some more on the adjacent land
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


ScottA

Might be too late Don but next time you get a fire going in the stove could you check the temp of the flue at near the ceiling level?

MountainDon

Under normal operation the black pipe near the thimble and the change to insulated pipe runs less than 200 degrees F; frequently as low as 100 degrees. I have had it way hotter with the door open for several minutes; something I shouldn't be doing according to the instructions.  ::)   I've seen the stainless steel insulated pipe up to 90+ degrees when the stove is 'cooking'. Same with the adjacent wall temperatures; 90's is the highest I've seen.

Under normal, but full draft conditions, the stove top at the chimney pipe connection can get up to 250+ degrees. It slow boils water in the pot and kettle you've seen pictured. Slow boil as in the kettle whistles ever so subtly.

How's that?    :D
(Mr. Numbers)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

ScottA

You're the man Don. I figured it was cooler. Reason I ask is I'm planning to have wood above the rock wall behind my stove. It will be about 8' above the floor and the pipe will be about 16" away.

MountainDon

I'm not sure if my memory is on the ball or not, but I seem to recall that wood has to be heated to temperatures above 250 degrees for extended periods of time before there is any changes within the wood cellular structure that result in the lowering of the ignition temperature. Normally wood needs to be heated to 450 - 500 degrees F (specie dependent) before auto ignition, IIRC.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

OldDog


all the time spent cleaning up sure did pay off!!!!!!
If you live a totally useless day in a totally useless manner you have learned how to live