Author Topic: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update  (Read 2277958 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5275 on: April 02, 2015, 04:48:53 PM »
Thanks for the link, Andrew. I will take a look at it.  I'm never too old to learn... well... not yet anyway. [ouch]

Ben, the guarding and non-revelation of knowledge for profit has always been a pet peeve of mine... ever since I was about 5 years old and grownups wouldn't take me seriously when I asked a question about something they thought I would not understand.

People are sometimes afraid if you know how they do what they do and see it is so easy they will lose work or have more competition... oh well....  [waiting]

The people here in Burma are some of the most helpful I know... always helping each other and outsiders as well.  Example: A hotel manager told me I could book a room on another website and get the same room $6 a night cheaper.... Gyo Phyu company offered to help us with anything related to well drilling since we wanted to help their people.  I of course shared new methods with them freely.  I have more to talk to them about on my next meeting with them..... and on and on and on.. :)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:42:39 AM by glenn kangiser »
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5276 on: April 02, 2015, 04:54:12 PM »
 [cool]


Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5277 on: June 14, 2015, 11:40:33 AM »
I bought a used forklift battery from my brother a few years ago and just left it sitting around.  A few months back I had trouble with my power and found battery problems.  I hooked the welder to this forklift battery and charge it for a bit...

It seemed to be holding a charge in 24 volts of the 36 volt battery so I hooked it into the system with a set of jumper cables. The battery had fallen off of some junkers trailer and was in the road.  My brother is in Highway Maintenance so he had to do something with the battery... :)

About 3 of the cells on one side were damaged.  After a few months one of the cells in my 24 volt section developed a short or bad cell condition.  Getting one of the good 2 volt cells out of the third section was quite a problem since the case was a bit smashed on 2 ends.

Here is the solution I came up with.  [ouch]



I cut through the lead connectors with a chop blade on my grinder.. (then went promptly into the house and licked the lead off of my fingers because the state has rules about that).... [waiting]

I drilled and tapped the connectors and slipped split drip tubing over the ends of the removed section connectors to be sure they stayed separate.  ???

I cleaned everything well with a wire wheel then drilled and bolted copper strips to the lead connectors.  Surprisingly this old abused battery is coming up to a full charge on all of the cells that have been in use for a while.  The new member of the team is progressing nicely in coming back into service. 



"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5278 on: June 14, 2015, 03:22:04 PM »
I used to get a kick out of saving the old Trojan batteries at a few of the companies I worked for.I maintained forklift,golf carts,floor equipment,and other various battery powered manufacturing transport equipment.Most of them were just ran and not charged properly.No one understood the desulfate function on the chargers.That was usually the problem, and/or low electrolyte solution.

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5279 on: June 14, 2015, 09:27:34 PM »
Yes.  That is a common problem.  People don't understand batteries....  d*
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5280 on: June 15, 2015, 07:39:32 PM »
Still out more than I'm in... hanging steel and welding... gotta make enough money to get back to Burma. :)



Shopping center in one town ....

Warehouse in another......



As I mentioned... hoping to get back to Burma (Myanmar) by August or September and continue checking into what I can do there and how.

The friendliest people in the world I think....




Hey, they love me there...




I rode on the back of this boys motorcycle for about 5 hours... yes .. we had to put on a new tire but it wasn't my fault... it was already worn out before the 20.8 kilometers to the vacant elephant camp with the tube sticking out... but the boys fixed it well enough to get most of the way back ...  He told me to lose some weight before I come back next year... said he was too little to carry me around... I made 2 of him he said.... through my interpreter of course.  I gotta keep studying my Burmese... [ouch]



These guys were a blast.. said it was too late to head for the camp, but they would try anyway... yes.. they got us there but wrong season for elephants... no food.


[deadhorse]



"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline Dave Sparks

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
  • Offgrid Solar
    • Offgrid Solar
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5281 on: June 21, 2015, 10:26:25 AM »
I have heard the beer is good in Burma. Do you put limes in it? I think I see you over there!  --Dave
"we go where the power lines don't"


Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5282 on: June 21, 2015, 11:28:04 AM »
Dave, the beer is excellent in Burma... Limes... hmmm .. I can't remember if we put limes in it or not. ???

That's how good it was... [waiting]



"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline Dave Sparks

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
  • Offgrid Solar
    • Offgrid Solar
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5283 on: June 23, 2015, 06:38:42 AM »
Wow that is good.  :-\
"we go where the power lines don't"


Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5284 on: July 02, 2015, 09:55:32 AM »
Hey Glenn.I have a well problem I hope you can help me with.My cousins well pump froze this past winter and they replaced it.Now, it's gotten to where it will shut down when water is flowing fast, as in a shower running or outside garden faucet running.After the breaker is reset,it takes about 20 minutes before the flow picks back up.We can't find any leaks between the pump and house.Could it be the drop pipe leaking and causing the pump to short cycle?

Offline Ernest T. Bass

  • "One in the same, 'Bass' is the name!"
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,016
  • Location: Da' U.P., eh?
    • Our Family's Blog (cordwood house building and homestead-related stuff)
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5285 on: July 02, 2015, 07:58:56 PM »
Are you running out of water? We upgraded our pump setup and now have to be careful since we can suck the well dry faster than it can keep up, which was never much of a problem before.

Our family's homestead adventure blog; sharing the goodness and fun!


Offline rick91351

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,091
  • 5000' in Idaho
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5286 on: July 02, 2015, 10:18:35 PM »
Our domestic well has a two gallon per minute restriction on it.  There is several ways to go from there..  One is you can use it to fill up a storage tank.  Second idea is a series of pressure tanks. 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5287 on: July 03, 2015, 07:33:14 AM »
Are you running out of water? We upgraded our pump setup and now have to be careful since we can suck the well dry faster than it can keep up, which was never much of a problem before.

There is 127 feet of water above the bottom.We set the pump at roughly 100 feet of water,with 27 feet below the pump.I think the casing is 8 inches in diameter.We have a 1 inch drop pipe coming up to the pressure tank,and 3/4 inch service.I don't know the pump specs.It was replaced with a pump that was identical to the one removed.The well wasn't having any problems for the past two years,until this past winter.It was bad up on the mountain,and the line froze all the way down to the pump.Everything was replaced with new.

Offline Redoverfarm

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,797
  • Applachian Mtns, West Virginia
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5288 on: July 03, 2015, 08:37:03 AM »
The pump should pump continuous if called for.  The only thing that would limit it would be pressure switch cutting the power to the pump, low water volume in the well or faulty pressure tank.   If a check valve is bad it will not keep pressure in the line and have to pump that water back up from the well where normally it is held in the line.  The delay you may be experiencing might just be the result of a low producing stream which has to fill the water level to the pump.

Wells do go bad.  What you once had can be lost by someone else tapping into that same vein.  Especially true if there was not that much water being produced to the well in the first place.  Another problem is that the rocks have shifted and is partially blocking the water flow.  This is something that can happen miles away from your well and not necessarily near the well.

I had a shallow well which produced approx. 10GPM for several years.  Then one day it just stopped producing the volume.  Decisions, Decisions.  Do I drill in the same hole and take a chance.  Decided that I might only gain a little more volume with the added depth so I decided to drill another one.  Worked out better in the long run.  Second well was considerable deeper but ended up with 50-60GPM.  Knock on wood it is holding steady to the static level. 

When you say you have 127 feet of water is that actually the static line or the well depth?  If that is the well depth and you are 27 feet off the bottom and your static level is say only 60 feet above the pump then you only have 88 gal w/6" casing and 156 gal w/8" casing in storage.  Generally most wells are 6" casing.  You can calculate yours if your measurements are correct at this site.

http://www.hydro-terra.com/well-volume-calculator/


Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5289 on: July 03, 2015, 11:32:25 AM »
The pump should pump continuous if called for.  The only thing that would limit it would be pressure switch cutting the power to the pump, low water volume in the well or faulty pressure tank.   If a check valve is bad it will not keep pressure in the line and have to pump that water back up from the well where normally it is held in the line.  The delay you may be experiencing might just be the result of a low producing stream which has to fill the water level to the pump.

Wells do go bad.  What you once had can be lost by someone else tapping into that same vein.  Especially true if there was not that much water being produced to the well in the first place.  Another problem is that the rocks have shifted and is partially blocking the water flow.  This is something that can happen miles away from your well and not necessarily near the well.

I had a shallow well which produced approx. 10GPM for several years.  Then one day it just stopped producing the volume.  Decisions, Decisions.  Do I drill in the same hole and take a chance.  Decided that I might only gain a little more volume with the added depth so I decided to drill another one.  Worked out better in the long run.  Second well was considerable deeper but ended up with 50-60GPM.  Knock on wood it is holding steady to the static level. 

When you say you have 127 feet of water is that actually the static line or the well depth?  If that is the well depth and you are 27 feet off the bottom and your static level is say only 60 feet above the pump then you only have 88 gal w/6" casing and 156 gal w/8" casing in storage.  Generally most wells are 6" casing.  You can calculate yours if your measurements are correct at this site.

http://www.hydro-terra.com/well-volume-calculator/

Thanks.

Overall the well is 437 feet from ground level.It's also up hill from the house and in very rocky terrain on the side of a mountain.The casing may be 6 inches.I'm going on memory.The well is at a family member's house.Their well service company isn't really good at what they do,from my observation.They just keep replacing different things that they haven't already replaced.The problem still persists.

Offline Redoverfarm

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,797
  • Applachian Mtns, West Virginia
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5290 on: July 03, 2015, 12:34:47 PM »
It sounds as if it is being over drawn.   Not much water volume for a multi house well.  It might not have a powerful enough pump.  I believe (or I have been told) that anything over 400 ft needs at least 3/4 HP or more motor.  If you have a place for a storage tank it may help out some.  But that would require a separate pump from the tank to the house.  Maybe food for thought.  Maybe Glenn will break away from steel work and have his take on the problem.

Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5291 on: July 04, 2015, 11:43:51 AM »
It's only the one house on the well.There are several other houses around but not very close.I'll have to get them to consider doing a storage tank set up.


It sounds as if it is being over drawn.   Not much water volume for a multi house well.  It might not have a powerful enough pump.  I believe (or I have been told) that anything over 400 ft needs at least 3/4 HP or more motor.  If you have a place for a storage tank it may help out some.  But that would require a separate pump from the tank to the house.  Maybe food for thought.  Maybe Glenn will break away from steel work and have his take on the problem.


Offline Gary O

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,502
  • Oregon
    • WUNNEEZDAZE, our cabin building experience
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5292 on: July 11, 2015, 04:02:59 AM »
Dave, the beer is excellent in Burma... Limes... hmmm .. I can't remember if we put limes in it or not. ???

That's how good it was... [waiting]

this quote calls for a poster...
 
I’m enjoying all that I own, the moment.

“Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.” Emerson

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5293 on: August 04, 2015, 11:47:42 AM »
Wow.. things got busy here when I did..... From the second of July on I have been swamped with finishing up a second warehouse project and modifying the first and running a crew for the company I sub for as well as starting a group to help with flood relief in Myanmar (Burma).

I even worked on the 4th of July and have been doing most all minimum 12 hour days.  Just got mostly finished Friday night then concentrating on getting the Myanmar Flood Relief group going on Facebook.  Others have picked up the ball and we are doing some good there. 

I will be going back there in the next few weeks.

Now... let me go back and look through the recent questions.. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5294 on: August 04, 2015, 12:04:29 PM »
Gary O.... yes.. I am the adventurer.   Taking others with me for the ride.  I was frustrated with not being able to help with the near entire country under water in my adopted country of Myanmar, so started the Myanmar flood Relief group on Facebook.

My start there inspired the Fulbright Fellows from Brandeis In Myanmar to jump on board also.  My goal is to be able to give without 80% going to administration and logistics as most charities.  My goal is 100% to the flooding victims, but I eased up a bit to allow our representative dispersing our funds to cover actual expenses. I am in the interest of Myanmar, not limiting it to only my desires with my donations though.  I want help to get there any way possible.  Other people from all over the world are beginning to join and help or follow the news links available there.

Because of that site I was able to rescue a poor farm boy from African Scammers.  He said he considered me a warm family friend because of my work with and for their people, and explained the situation.  I recognized the scam because I once lost $30 to the scammers.. I got off easy.  I explained it to him so he then understood and thanked me so much... I am family.  :)

I will take another adventure soon going over there on my own dime of course, and doing what I can.  I am hoping for a waiver of some sort that will allow me to help with physical work, on the easily available tourist VISA.  I have my VISA approval letter already and it is good for 90 days from last night.

If I am not allowed to work or they wont look the other way, I will try to help mentally... not much danger of me overworking in that capacity. [ouch]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5295 on: August 04, 2015, 12:17:03 PM »
Ben, it sounds like your well is running out of water.  The pump is over capacity or production of the well has dropped off.  You could unhook the pipe and see what happens when the pump is started and water free flows.  I think it will pump fine for a little bit then stop.  The recovery is for time for the water to get back into the well and above the impellers.  Pumps get hot with no water hence the circuit breaker popping.

I would recommend a pump protector that senses loading and can shut off the pump for a timed interval then turn it back on.  Coyote is one brand .. Franklin has one also.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5296 on: August 04, 2015, 12:21:09 PM »
The 127 feet of water at the bottom was likely measured after standing idle. It can be pumped out pretty fast.  If it only produces a pint or quart a minute it will refill but not fast enough to catch up with a pump taking 5 or 10 gallons per minute.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Offline Ernest T. Bass

  • "One in the same, 'Bass' is the name!"
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,016
  • Location: Da' U.P., eh?
    • Our Family's Blog (cordwood house building and homestead-related stuff)
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5297 on: August 08, 2015, 07:25:24 PM »
On the same topic, is there any way to prevent a jet pump from losing prime when the well gets sucked dry? We have a surface two-pipe jet pump and an 80' well that normally keeps up just fine, but if we use too much water all at once (laundry and sprinkler at the same time..), the pump takes a gulp of air after the water level drops and loses prime. We used to have a somewhat less powerful jet pump, and it never lost prime--just slowed way down when the level got low. Any way to fix this nuisance?

Our family's homestead adventure blog; sharing the goodness and fun!

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,926
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5298 on: August 09, 2015, 05:34:01 AM »
I haven't worked with jet pumps Andrew, but understand your problem.  The only way I can think of to remedy this is to put a water level sensor in the well at the lowest level you want to pump to.. somewhere above the pump jet.  When the water drops to the sensor then the pump would shut off before losing prime. It may require a magnetic switch. Maybe more complicated than that but I think it would work. 

There is a different type sensor above ground for submersibles that senses load change... Coyote is one brand.   I know they have an electrode sensor for water tanks.. not sure about wells.... more research needed on that one.. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline ben2go

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Glenn's Underground Cabin Update
« Reply #5299 on: August 09, 2015, 08:45:27 AM »
I had to leave before I figured out the well problem.They ended up calling out a pro that did the last job for them.It seems it was their fault.The drop pipe was leaking at every joint.It is PVC that screws together.The breaker was tripping to do high thermal loads from short cycling of the pump,or so I was told.


 

Templates: 4: index (default), Ads (default), Display (default), GenericControls (default).
Sub templates: 10: init, html_above, adsheaders_above, body_above, adsindex_above, main, adsindex_below, body_below, adsheaders_below, html_below.
Language files: 2: index+Modifications.english (default), Ads.english (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 33 - 867KB. (show)
Cache hits: 13: 0.00166s for 40,947 bytes (show)
Queries used: 35.

[Show Queries]