20x30 cabin

[jbiehl]

So after quite some time of looking at a lot of those cabin kits you can buy i decided if I just sat down and spent a little bit of time i could design a nice cabin I know I would love. I have spent a bit of time using Google sketch-up and have come up with my dream. Any and all comments, questions and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. The left side is the building built piece by piece, the one on the left kind of a finished look. (I have decided not to go with the french front doors and some of the windows have been moved or taken out.) Also the roof will be extended outwards like the finished cabin to the right looks like.

[Squirl]

Looks nice.  I like the windows.

A few comments.

If this is 20ft wide and there are no loads in the great room area other than the floor 5 piers across the building is probably overkill.

Also it doesn't look like a ridgebeam.  If so, then you need rafter ties.

[Native_NM]

Wow.  Nice work, and nice design. 

[mogie01]

Really nice.  It looks like the cabin built by metolent.  Love all the windows!

[jbiehl]

Looks nice.  I like the windows.

A few comments.

If this is 20ft wide and there are no loads in the great room area other than the floor 5 piers across the building is probably overkill.

Also it doesn't look like a ridgebeam.  If so, then you need rafter ties.

How many piers should i look at doing...3?and should the back still have 5 because of the second story? it is a ridgebeam...or does the roof have to go over the beam like in the image below?


For the rafter ties do they simply sit under the beam to support it or is there a different size gap i should use?

[jbiehl]

Really nice.  It looks like the cabin built by metolent.  Love all the windows!

Wow, metolent's cabin is very similar. I saw similar designs on a lot of large cabin/lodge kits and kind of pieced a lot of what i liked, im sure he did somewhat the same lol

[jbiehl]

just a side view. The colored blocks are simply pieces to represent furniture so i can get a better understanding of the space and whatnot.

[jbiehl]

Main floor floorplan/layout. The room sizes were just estimates, of course they are smaller because of the framework and the kitchen was made bigger, not my call   thus making the dining area smaller and prob now a nook size area for a small table. Also the fireplace will most likely be electric, mostly for show, Texas does not get all that cold lol.

[jbiehl]

Second floor, the bathroom had to be moved around a bit and its prob a little bit cramped the way it is now but it wouldnt bother me too much, also the WIC had to be scaled down a tad. other than that its a pretty accurate floor-plan.

[Squirl]

The picture you posted is of collar ties not rafter ties.  They aren't there to support the beam, they are there to prevent joist up lift.

The picture looks like it is too small for a ridge beam, especially one that will span 15 (?) ft.  It looks more like a ridge board (2x).

With most ridge beams I see the joist framed over the beam.  I believe you would need some type of simpson hanger to use them from the beam.

The 3 vs. 5 depends on sizing and spacing of floor joists.  If you are going with 2x4s space 24" O/C, then 5 are needed. The larger or closer together the joists the less piers are needed midspan.  With I joists or 2x12's 12" O/C you could go with 2, except what carries the load from the ridge beam.

Also the rafters are cut flush with the wall.  This makes it difficult to add a soffit vent for venting.

[Squirl]

Is this in a code district?  If so the stairs require 3 ft landings at the top and bottom.  Also they do not meet the rise/run code specs.

I also did not see spots for posts for the ridge beam support on the floor plan.  Have you done the calculations for the snow load and manufacturer guidelines for ridge beams?  15 ft is pretty long span.

[lobster]

i'm not seeing the entrance into the ground floor bedroom.

your first floor is similar to my own cabin, but on the ground floor, to save space i share the space at the foot of the stairs for three purposes: door to enter bedroom opens inward into bedroom from there, also door to the outside (actually to a mud room in may case) pierces the outside wall opening outward from there, plus of course it acts as the lower landing for the stairs. this means no additional floor area is needed elsewhere (which would have to be free of furniture) to allow space to approach those necessary elements.

in your plan, you can easily make an interior mud room (if you want one) by providing an interior door at the other end of the foyer, near the bathroom door.

you can save the expense of a small wall & a door by removing the wall separating the laundry/utility room from the foyer (thus the back door entrance is also your laundry room.) this would also probably allow the total space you have allocated for both those functions to be reduced, as your plan as shown must allow space to walk thru the foyer, and also space to walk around in the utility room, but by combining them you need only one such space.

[jbiehl]

The picture you posted is of collar ties not rafter ties.  They aren't there to support the beam, they are there to prevent joist up lift.

The picture looks like it is too small for a ridge beam, especially one that will span 15 (?) ft.  It looks more like a ridge board (2x).

With most ridge beams I see the joist framed over the beam.  I believe you would need some type of simpson hanger to use them from the beam.

The 3 vs. 5 depends on sizing and spacing of floor joists.  If you are going with 2x4s space 24" O/C, then 5 are needed. The larger or closer together the joists the less piers are needed midspan.  With I joists or 2x12's 12" O/C you could go with 2, except what carries the load from the ridge beam.

Also the rafters are cut flush with the wall.  This makes it difficult to add a soffit vent for venting.

Lets start with the top, it spans 17ft so what you are suggesting is to make it look like the picture below, and instead of a ridge board, make it wider to beam size say 4"-6"? Now on the 3vs5 i was planning on 2x4s at 24" O/C, so 5 is the answer there. Though i did see https://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj20/RIJake/The%20Last%20Resort/2011-08-26_15-18-02_630.jpg on the 20x30 Western Maine post and the I joists look really nice, i guess i can ponder that over. The rafters wont be cut flush with the wall, i havent gotten to extending them out in the model but i was thing about 1' of an overhang like imaged in the sided view to the right (though it is hard to see that from the one picture i have of it.)

[jbiehl]

i'm not seeing the entrance into the ground floor bedroom.

your first floor is similar to my own cabin, but on the ground floor, to save space i share the space at the foot of the stairs for three purposes: door to enter bedroom opens inward into bedroom from there, also door to the outside (actually to a mud room in may case) pierces the outside wall opening outward from there, plus of course it acts as the lower landing for the stairs. this means no additional floor area is needed elsewhere (which would have to be free of furniture) to allow space to approach those necessary elements.

in your plan, you can easily make an interior mud room (if you want one) by providing an interior door at the other end of the foyer, near the bathroom door.

you can save the expense of a small wall & a door by removing the wall separating the laundry/utility room from the foyer (thus the back door entrance is also your laundry room.) this would also probably allow the total space you have allocated for both those functions to be reduced, as your plan as shown must allow space to walk thru the foyer, and also space to walk around in the utility room, but by combining them you need only one such space.

There is an entrance there, pictured below. i guess i forgot to add them to the floor plans) but the plans came first sketchup came second so things were changed in one but not finalized in a new floor plan. I do really like the idea of removing the foyer wall between the utility room and foyer. That would be perfect because i was planning on just putting a stacked washer/dryer and the water heater in there, this way you will have that extra room to move about an not be so cramped in the little room.

[jbiehl]

Is this in a code district?  If so the stairs require 3 ft landings at the top and bottom.  Also they do not meet the rise/run code specs.

I also did not see spots for posts for the ridge beam support on the floor plan.  Have you done the calculations for the snow load and manufacturer guidelines for ridge beams?  15 ft is pretty long span.

I do not have the land yet, i am actively searching for some nearby most likely 5-10 acres, (looking for just the right one & right price) and I am not positive in what county/town it will be in, there are a lot of small towns nearby with great patches of land. Of course i can add ridge beam support in the plans if it is required (most likely will) say a post 10' in from the window side so its just behind the couch and not in the way of anything much. Snow load, this is texas...what is this snow you talk of? lol (not planning on being up in any mountains either, though after looking through some other peoples pictures, those views would be spectacular) Now the stairs i was already planning on making to 3', (my reasoning was mostly more closet space under the stairs,  ) right now they are shown at 2'9" so another 3 inches wont interfere with the design nor will it come into contact with the front door and that will have the 3' landing in the middle there and at the top i was planning on adding a door there but if need be i can move the door in over between the WIC and stairs thus giving a 3'x 3' landing. The rise run shown is at rise 8" run 10", i was looking at some suggestions online before i designed them and found a site that said:

(RISE: the height of one stair in a staircase. This is the amount of vertical distance one moves when stepping from one stair onto the next. The rise should be between 5" and 7¾" with the ideal rise for a residence being 7")
(RUN: the horizontal distance of one stair. It is how far in, the stair goes which gives the amount of room for a persons foot. The run should be between 8¼" and 14". An intermediate run is 11". The stair tread is the RUN plus the nosing. Per most Building Codes, the tread should be between 9¼" and 14". An intermediate tread is 12".

Yes 8 is more than 7 but for some reason my head told me at the time boards are actually put in it would be different... no idea what i was thinking but i definitely could do 7 by 11 just would need to move the door over some. Or was that website completely bonkers?

[jbiehl]

I just want to say so far i have really appreciated this feedback, its definitely very helpful. Please keep it coming! 

[Squirl]

There was a really great link to stair designs somewhere around here, but when I'm looking for something I can never find it.  I usually use 7 and 10 as my rough figure numbers.  So If you are going up 8 ft you need two 36" landing areas and you would need 13 treads (96/7) which would be 130 (10x13) inches or 10 ft in addition to the 6 ft of landings which would be 16 linear feet of floor space, give or take a tread.

For the ridge beam 4"-6" would be clearer.  There are some LVL beams for 1.5", but I have never seen them that size for a ridge beam to span 17'.  I will leave sizing and span calculations for engineered beams to you and the engineers.  17' is off the code charts for 4-2x12's.

Speaking of beams, I noticed your windows don't have headers.

[jbiehl]

There was a really great link to stair designs somewhere around here, but when I'm looking for something I can never find it.  I usually use 7 and 10 as my rough figure numbers.  So If you are going up 8 ft you need two 36" landing areas and you would need 13 treads (96/7) which would be 130 (10x13) inches or 10 ft in addition to the 6 ft of landings which would be 16 linear feet of floor space, give or take a tread.

For the ridge beam 4"-6" would be clearer.  There are some LVL beams for 1.5", but I have never seen them that size for a ridge beam to span 17'.  I will leave sizing and span calculations for engineered beams to you and the engineers.  17' is off the code charts for 4-2x12's.

Speaking of beams, I noticed your windows don't have headers.

I see, well i suppose i could move the door frame over about a foot then extend the middle platform over 3ft and then the last remaining steps go back towards the kitchen kind of like the example below. So i have a 3'x 6' landing or 2 3' landings and that would cover the 16 linear feet of floor space. I have never built or designed stairs before, and i know getting it right for inspectors is important so this helps me a lot with the designing process. As for the window headers, i just wasn't sure if I was keeping the windows where they are yet or not and have moved them around like crazy since i started designing them ( you can see that simply from the two 3d models the windows dont match hardly at all lol) so i just kept the design pretty simple right now, they will definitely be added in the final draft.

[Tinga]

You could always add a bump-out for the laundry room.That would open it up a little bit.

[jbiehl]

I was considering doing just that, but i have later plans for the foyer exit with a car port and possible balcony on top of that for a later date. (Though id have to figure out some kind of an entrance to such balcony lol)

[jbiehl]

So i found this neat little website that calculates stair dimensions depending on the rise and run you input plus the total height you need to achieve. http://www.blocklayer.com/stairs/stairseng.aspx

I input a total 8' rise, ideal rise 7" and ideal run 10". According to these calculations with the total Rise 8' , it would create, 13 Runs of 10" and 14 Rises of 6~27/32" at an angle of 34.4 degrees. Basically what squirl was talking about in an earlier post.

My question is why would there need to be 2  3'x3' landings and not just the one center one pictured in my 3d model?

[Squirl]

Found it.

All you ever wanted to know about stairs.
http://www.stairways.org/Resources/Documents/2006%20Stair%20IRC%20SCREEN%20web%20download.pdf

I'm not 100% on the bottom landing part.  I'm pretty sure it has to do with all landings, pathways and hallways have to be 3 ft wide.  Therefore the bottom has to be 3 ft wide.  I think it has to do with the fire code.  I know I had it corrected by the building inspector on the entry stair case for my house.  As you would be standing to turn to get on the stairs the downstairs would have a 2 ft wide path to turn to get up the stairs, essentially making it a 2 ft wide corridor. I don't understand the why of this if doors are allowed to be 30".

Nice tool.

[jbiehl]

Wow that is a great resource right there. Couple of comments on a few things i found such as:

"Exception: A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage,
provided a door does not swing over the stairs."

So as long as the door at the top of the stairs swings inwards into the room, that is fine.

I think this is the part you were speaking of squirl.
"The width of each landing shall not be less than the stairway served. Every landing shall have
a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel."

So having stairs with a 3'x6' center landing allows for both directions of travel to be 36inches (like the image depicted in an earlier post). Maybe add an inche or 2 (on the 6' side) between the stairs for indoor paneling and such.

[Squirl]

Sounds good.  Thanks for the tip on the exception.

It is also just good practice, imho.  I don't know how many times you had to move, but moving a queen or king sized box spring up stairs and around a short corners is difficult and sometimes impossible.  It opens up options on furniture you can put up stairs.  I've had problems with this with really old houses when everything people owned was smaller or they just had less stuff.

[MountainDon]

... one reason why I like my one story home on a slab.