Newbie needs help to build garage/shed/worksop

[stryped]

Hi,

I live in southern Kentucky in the country. I am wanting to build a garage/workshop by myself. I have plenty of room but no where on my property is perfectly flat. Where I am thinking of putting it is about 1 foot difference between the high and low points.

ANyway money is an issue with two small kids. Also, I have no one to help me.

I like stick framing because I want to use viynle siding to match my house. Also, above the garage I would like to be a second floor to house my small collection of woodowkring tools.

The problem I am having is I really cant afford concrete and paying someone to put it up. And I am not sure what type of foundation to use. The "pole barn" is popular around here but not sure if I can get those posts up and perfectly level by myself. I have read a little about people putting posts in the ground only a few feet high in concrete than using stick framing on top of that but not sure what that is called. WOuld that work as well.

I have available my 43 2n tractor and a post hole digger.

Just looking for advice and appreciate any help!

[MountainDon]

Welcome stryped! I'm sure that before the day is out you'll get some advice. Building alone can be a challenge, I've done most of my building by myself.  There are some good hints on solo building in this book...  "Working Alone : Tips & Techniques for Solo Building"  Click on the following link   http://www.countryplans.com/books.html   ... scroll down to the third book. The first book on framing is also great if you are new to building.

If you do buy it thru John's website he gets a fee that helps support this site.    

We all look forward to your progress.  G/L

[John Raabe]

See what Glenn has done with his Garage project. This from the master of low-cost construction who also has hilly terrain.

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1138433261/0


(Now we know the secret of his productivity! )

[glenn kangiser]

Drinking a cup of coffee as we speak.  That's hard to do --- I think I better get a napkin. :-/

The total cost of that garage is under $200 with all salvaged materials except a bit of cement, tarpaper and nails.  It was built off of a set of the Little House Plans that I modified to use the post and beam materials I had.

While your processes will likely be different, check out the story of that little garage from John's link and we can answer questions on the rest.

What available resources do you have -- any rocks for a rubble foundation? - with added mortar slurry they make a cool foundation to level things up.

[glenn kangiser]

Re-read your posting ---   what other resources do you have -- ?  Poles? Lumber ?  No permits required?

We can figure out other ways to do this also.  With poles the ground doesn't have to be flat.  You can pick a point and level the building to it - then level the ground later if you wish.

[stryped]

Re-read your posting ---   what other resources do you have -- ?  Poles? Lumber ?  No permits required?

We can figure out other ways to do this also.  With poles the ground doesn't have to be flat.  You can pick a point and level the building to it - then level the ground later if you wish.

Dont have much available but there are no permits required. I would like it to look nice and match my house. That is why I mentioned viynle siding. An upstairs would be nice to put my jointer, table saw and other woodworking tools.

[glenn kangiser]

What size are you looking at?

[stryped]

I am the one with the message of building a garage/workshop cheaply. I was wondering, could I dig post hole's and put about 2 inch black iron pipe in the middle with a bolt on the top, fill the hole with concrete as well as the pipe. Then bolt the walls to this bolt. (regular stick lumber). To form the building? Would these "footings" be strong enough if I had an upstairs too? How would I ensure each bolt is level? I have a home made water level, maybe I could somehow put a point on the pipe so I could drive it in the hole to the desired depth with the water level?

I really need advice because someimtes I over think and analyze things too much.

About 6 years ago I did something different. I built a 16x12 shed. I made the entire frame out of 2 inch square tubing and welded it up. The outside is still wood. It was different and I did it myself. But it took a long time and was frustrating.

My thinking with the footings I think it would be easier to level the foundation. I am not sure posts 10 feet up in the air I could level completely by myself. (and I have never seen a perfectly straight post in the store.).

I am thinking maybe a 20x30 building. I am flexable though.

Also, with stick framing, could I build the walls in my current garage in 10 foot sections and put it up or would it be too heavy?

I apologize for the questions and appreciate your help!

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds like what you are wanting is pretty good sized and could have safety issues if not done properly.  Are you talking full second story, short upstairs side walls (kneewalls) or just an attic?  

As it gets larger then tendency to want to fall over and smash you gets greater.

[stryped]

Sounds like what you are wanting is pretty good sized and could have safety issues if not done properly.  Are you talking full second story, short upstairs side walls (kneewalls) or just an attic?  

As it gets larger then tendency to want to fall over and smash you gets greater.

Well, maybe 20x20 would suffice. I am just in the thinking stage right now. What I was thinking is 3 garage type areas 8 feet high above the middle one would be a small 10x20 room with a wood floor to house my woodworking stuff. It may not work I dont know. Something like this idea: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/home_improvement/3533516.html?page=6  (scroll to the bottom)

[MountainDon]

I've never built a building using post & beam construction so don't know what to watch out for specifically. But I have some general thoughts and questions.

Matching the siding to the house... I can understand the desire to do that. The siding though is just the frosting on the cake. You need a solid structure underneath first.

Woodworking stuff on the second floor. Not sure about that. To me, and this is just my opinion, that's about as inconvenient as my first wood shop in the basement. Unless you're just building small easily transported items. I'd go one floor, or maybe a small design studio upstairs.

A 3 car sized space is pretty good, but I'd go with 10 foot ceilings if it's a work space. Just my preference after having used basements, run-of-the-mill single and two car garages as work shops before getting the larger space I always wanted. Well, it could be bigger...   :-/

[glenn kangiser]

I agree with you, Don.  Unless the projects were all very small - like shopping bag size, it would be a real pain to do wood work upstairs.  I have to reset my stuff to make any time on the different levels of my house.  Of  course that only means moving an air nailer, compressor and a chainsaw, but it's still work. :-/

[stryped]

I agree with you, Don.  Unless the projects were all very small - like shopping bag size, it would be a real pain to do wood work upstairs.  I have to reset my stuff to make any time on the different levels of my house.  Of  course that only means moving an air nailer, compressor and a chainsaw, but it's still work. :-/

I guess my only thought with the upstairs was that I could have a wood floor. I cant afford a concrete floor for the building I dont think. I cant use my woodworking tools on gravel.

What do you guys recommend?

[stryped]

I agree with you, Don.  Unless the projects were all very small - like shopping bag size, it would be a real pain to do wood work upstairs.  I have to reset my stuff to make any time on the different levels of my house.  Of  course that only means moving an air nailer, compressor and a chainsaw, but it's still work. :-/

I just got a quote for a 20x25 pad with a turn down footer so I could stick frame on top of it for 2500. It is smaller than I wanted, but maybe better in the long run. I have a 90 Mustang but dont drive I would like to keep covered. It would be nice to be able to park my king cab truck too. And I have my woodworking tools, and my two welders. Everythign is packed into my current garage.

Am I asking for trouble trying to build an upstairs on something like this by myself?

[glenn kangiser]

I think that would be much better - then you have something solid to work from - I think then you could adapt John's 20' wide plan to that easily and you would know where you are going.  It is very inexpensive and would save you more than the time you would lose trying to rig some plan  in your head to work.

It comes in single - 1 1/2 and 2 story - you would simply modify it into a garage instead of a house.

http://www.countryplans.com/plans.html  First on the page.

[stryped]

I think that would be much better - then you have something solid to work from - I think then you could adapt John's 20' wide plan to that easily and you would know where you are going.  It is very inexpensive and would save you more than the time you would lose trying to rig some plan  in your head to work.

It comes in single - 1 1/2 and 2 story - you would simply modify it into a garage instead of a house.

http://www.countryplans.com/plans.html  First on the page.

Would adding a second story make it more difficult? Am I asking for trouble trying to do this and by myself? SHould I just make it a single story?

[glenn kangiser]

It is lots of work and even with the one story you will likely need some help sometimes.

[stryped]

It is lots of work and even with the one story you will likely need some help sometimes.

Occasionally I could get someone to help me lift something or rent a lift.

I am just really struggeling to have an upstairs or not.

What do you guys think?

Here is what is in my garage now.

Average size roll around tool box.

1 ac welder

1 Hobart small mig welder with cart and bottle.

I 1950 craftsman jointer on a rolling cart.

1 set aceytlene torches mounted on wall

chop saw

miter saw

small delta table top saw

small ryobi router table (table top)

30 gallon craftsman air compressor

1 1990 Mustang. (good shape but not driven alot. Currently is outside with car cover on.

I drive a 96 chevy extended cab truck. WOuld be nice to park inside but not required.

1small craftsman table top planner

Other small miscillanious tools.


For the most part it will be me by myself. My idea would be to work a little at a time as I can. Maybe building walls in my current garage and "prefabing" so to speak.

As far as the woodowrkign It is just a new hobby. The only thing I have made is a small knife drawer.

[John_M]

You are most likely going to get lots of different opinions......I have found that the more you get, the more confused you become.

Only you know what you want and what would be best for you.  Yes, it is cheaper to build up because of there is less of a foundation needed as opposed to the same square footage but it is not always best.

This is what I would think.....

1.  How long will you be living here?  If a long time...go big, more room is always better.  

2.  I know that cost is the biggest factor!  Can you get a second job?  Sell something to get a few more $$$.

3.  Time frame - how soon do you need this?  I would say it is much better to wait a year or two and save up the money to do it right as opposed to just doing it quickly and then saying that I wish I did this and I wish I did that!!

4.  Room - do you have the space to have all the square footage on one floor?  If not, your only option would be to build up!  (how about some pictures of the building site?)

Overall, I think that if you keep asking people what to do? what to do?, you ultimately have the answer in your head already and you are just waiting for someone (or several people) to validate it.

I would also say that it is difficult to do something like this alone...not impossible....but very difficult.  You WILL ultimately need some help.  So prepare ahead of time for this?  People at work? Church? Offer your services in exchange for help from others?  You have some welding equipment?  Know anyone that needs some work done?

Sorry to ramble, just thinking outloud.  You can get this done, just need to have it thought out about what YOU need and what YOU are capable of!

I am not trying to deter you by any means!!  I just don't know if there is a clear cut answer to be found?

[Amanda_931]

Earthen floor (clay/sand with sawdust for insulation, then sealed with linseed oil--if you don't have critters that will eat anything with linseed oil in it) or probably mo' bettah, with all those various pieces of equipment, soil cement (mix as above with 5-10 per cent concrete--or something like that--Glenn knows more than I do about that), possibly some tiles embedded in the areas that will get the most wear.

[glenn-k]

That's right ,Amanda.  Light duty where things will not be slid across the floor, that will work.  We like the 70%sand 30% clay w/ straw - no cement the best - grout the cracks - 4 coats of thinned linseed oil then later acrypic sealer.  Works good.  Cement added makes a softer floor as it stops a lot of the shrinkage that naturally makes the clay harder.  I guess it leaves air spaces as it is softer anc chips more easily.  Also there is the India light duty - 1" cement plunger pier floor to help keep cost down.