Quote from: JavaMan on August 23, 2011, 10:04:27 AM
Well, I don't know about 2-3 trips... My 2000 F150 has the small 8 and doesn't do too badly for it's vintage, but it's got over 150K miles on it and is beginning to show it's age.  Next time I think I will try to find a diesel ... from what I've heard they are getting better milage than the gas ones - enough to justify the extra fuel cost and then some.  For those of you east of the Rockies, yes, Diesel is more expensive up here in the PNW than gas is.  From all my midwestern friends (and from living there for a while) I know it usually is cheaper back east.

So, on to the questions about your woodshed!  How did you plant those poles?  I have an idea for construction at my place that I hope to accomplish next year that requires a number of poles stuck in the ground like that.  Did you simply dig a hole, stick the pole in and fill it back up? or was there more to it?

Hmmm...mine is a 2006 F150 with the 4.6l Triton V8 and it gets 17mpg on average.  Maybe just a newer one some day?  I hear the new F150's can get 23mpg!  They shut down 4 cyls on the hiway when crusing.

On to the shed:

These poles, because they are for a wood shed and I'm not worried about frost heave etc, are set 1 foot down and concreted in place with really what amounts to a small amount of concrete (3-4 inches around the outside diameter of the pole on the larger ones).  It's very solid though and as it will only house wood for the stove I think this will work fine -- heck, probably could have just buried in dirt for that matter but I felt the concrete might help deter bugs a tiny bit and make it slightly stronger.

The logs are 'nailed' together with 12" and 10" spikes and I tried to keep that at least as big around as my leg for the poles (ya it's that technical) and the diameter of the rafters about what I can wrap my hands around   Like that?

So figure the poles are 10-12" in diameter and the rafters are mostly around 6" in diameter...the beams are about 6-8" in diameter.

The boys did drag out two smaller rafter poles and peel them but I plan to replace them or place thicker ones beside them.  For now, however, they will help hold things together.

We are setting the rafters on roughly 16" centers and will strap with 1" boards to screw roofing too.  Then we will side with scraps from the mill.  I figure if there are holes and gaps in the siding that will be a good thing as it will allow air to move through the wood pile and help dry the wood or keep it dry.

Also I gave it a 24" overhang on the top of the roof and 18" at the bottom with 12" on either end.  That way it should keep things pretty dry and I shouldn't have to pull tarps out of the ice this winter in order to get to my wood pile

Quote from: OlJarhead on August 23, 2011, 02:31:23 PM
Hmmm...mine is a 2006 F150 with the 4.6l Triton V8 and it gets 17mpg on average.  Maybe just a newer one some day?  I hear the new F150's can get 23mpg!  They shut down 4 cyls on the hiway when crusing.

On to the shed:

These poles, because they are for a wood shed and I'm not worried about frost heave etc, are set 1 foot down and concreted in place with really what amounts to a small amount of concrete (3-4 inches around the outside diameter of the pole on the larger ones).  It's very solid though and as it will only house wood for the stove I think this will work fine -- heck, probably could have just buried in dirt for that matter but I felt the concrete might help deter bugs a tiny bit and make it slightly stronger.

The logs are 'nailed' together with 12" and 10" spikes and I tried to keep that at least as big around as my leg for the poles (ya it's that technical) and the diameter of the rafters about what I can wrap my hands around   Like that?

So figure the poles are 10-12" in diameter and the rafters are mostly around 6" in diameter...the beams are about 6-8" in diameter.

The boys did drag out two smaller rafter poles and peel them but I plan to replace them or place thicker ones beside them.  For now, however, they will help hold things together.

We are setting the rafters on roughly 16" centers and will strap with 1" boards to screw roofing too.  Then we will side with scraps from the mill.  I figure if there are holes and gaps in the siding that will be a good thing as it will allow air to move through the wood pile and help dry the wood or keep it dry.

Also I gave it a 24" overhang on the top of the roof and 18" at the bottom with 12" on either end.  That way it should keep things pretty dry and I shouldn't have to pull tarps out of the ice this winter in order to get to my wood pile

Sounds good!  I probably will want to go a bit deeper with mine, then ... but the 10-12" dia seems close to what I think I'll need.  From the looks of it, tho, I'll need them to be longer. I want a good 8' of head room - maybe even 9 or 10 depending on if I decide I want a floor or not.

And yeah, my F150 doesn't shut down any cylinders (I have the 4.6L as well), and I do think the newer ones get better mileage - best I've had on mine was 16mpg.  I still think I'll go with diesel if I can find one at a reasonable price (Brand new, it's a $45,000 truck for an F250 as far as I've priced - if I'm spending that kind of money, I'll pay off the house, first  )

Quote from: considerations on August 21, 2011, 10:30:35 PM
"I've heard of using hardware cloth on the bottom of the joists to keep the insulation in and critters out, but I've never actually seen whether it works or not."

I'll let you know in the spring.  My floors from top to bottom are:

• 2 x 6 T&G
• 2 x 10 joists - the spaces filled in with insulation
• 1/4" hardware cloth overlapped and carefully riveted (picture "sewn") with a roofing nail gun so that there are (hopefully) no gaps (after multiple inspections

Rodents are world class opportunists....

that should work fine
fyi- I just spoke with a contractor. He says he has another idea. He will get back to me after he looks into it.

I'll be interested in seeing his response.

At this point I really need to get this resolved too -- the chipmunks etc seem to be having a hayday down there....time to find a means of stopping them!

Time to re-drop the link for the NPS Rodent Exclusion Manual

Excerpt:
Hardware Cloth. Hardware cloth is the best, and one of the easiest, materials to use for screening foundation vents, open pipes, and other holes. It effectively excludes mice and most native rats. However, light-gauge hardware cloth is not entirely resistant to more aggressive animals, such as Old World rats.

Use 16- to 19-gauge, welded-at-each-joint, ½-inch by ½-inch-mesh, galvanized-after-welding wire screen to exclude larger animals or aggressive rats. This is extremely strong material, and will last 10 to 20 years due to its heavy zinc coating.

Use 19- or heavier gauge, galvanized, ¼-inch or smaller mesh hardware cloth to keep smaller animals (e.g., mice) out. Covering hardware cloth with metal window screening also keeps insects out.

The document has further info. Good stuff.

Much of the readily available hardware cloth is too light for larger or more determined rodents.

Quote from: MountainDon on August 24, 2011, 05:45:24 PM
Time to re-drop the link for the NPS Rodent Exclusion Manual

Excerpt:
Hardware Cloth. Hardware cloth is the best, and one of the easiest, materials to use for screening foundation vents, open pipes, and other holes. It effectively excludes mice and most native rats. However, light-gauge hardware cloth is not entirely resistant to more aggressive animals, such as Old World rats.

Use 16- to 19-gauge, welded-at-each-joint, ½-inch by ½-inch-mesh, galvanized-after-welding wire screen to exclude larger animals or aggressive rats. This is extremely strong material, and will last 10 to 20 years due to its heavy zinc coating.

Use 19- or heavier gauge, galvanized, ¼-inch or smaller mesh hardware cloth to keep smaller animals (e.g., mice) out. Covering hardware cloth with metal window screening also keeps insects out.

The document has further info. Good stuff.

Much of the readily available hardware cloth is too light for larger or more determined rodents.

Guess I need to look up hardware cloth and get some...is it something HD sells?  It sounds easy to use -- cloth being something you could staple to the joists....is it?

Thanks!

Headed back tomorrow:)

Plan on buying 5 gallons of stain and really going at it!  I need to get the exterior stained and ready for the fall/winter as a year + of not being treated has shown a little water staining/damage that I'd rather not allow to get worse!

Perhaps while there I'll get a little more done but since I'll be leaving early am tomorrow it's unlikely.  Though my new well pump arrived so I might take an hour and install it too   Then at least I should get some water into the cistern!

It's the stuff they build rabbit cages out of.  It is just like working with welded wire fencing, but tighter together.  It is thicker than poultry wire, but can still be cut with wire cutters. Watch out for sharp edges. I'd probably go for the .25 inch. They sell it at HD.

Quote from: Squirl on August 26, 2011, 11:52:23 AM
It's the stuff they build rabbit cages out of.  It is just like working with welded wire fencing, but tighter together.  It is thicker than poultry wire, but can still be cut with wire cutters. Watch out for sharp edges. I'd probably go for the .25 inch. They sell it at HD.

You mean this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100083687/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

It's 1/4" fencing but is also called 'hardware cloth'....

Exactly.  I had to buy it once.  I asked a half dozen sales people where the hardware cloth was.  They all looked at me dumbfounded.  I said you know, they use it as rabbit fencing.  Oh, rabbit fencing. They showed me it was in the lawn and garden section.

The HD stuff is only 23 gauge though. Not as heavy a wire as the NPS recommends. It would probably do for deer mice, but be sure to get 1/4" mesh, nothing larger. Larger rodents can bite through the light gauge wire.  The 19 gauge and heavier can be hard to find and expensive. Somewhere here there is more info on finding the heavier gauge wire cloth. It gets pricey in heavier gauges which is why I went with 3/8" CDX plywood. I did vent the ends, on the inside of the beams by about 4 inches. Not sure why really, walls are sealed tight.

Quote from: MountainDon on August 26, 2011, 12:19:18 PM
The HD stuff is only 23 gauge though. Not as heavy a wire as the NPS recommends. It would probably do for deer mice, but be sure to get 1/4" mesh, nothing larger. Larger rodents can bite through the light gauge wire.  The 19 gauge and heavier can be hard to find and expensive. Somewhere here there is more info on finding the heavier gauge wire cloth. It gets pricey in heavier gauges which is why I went with 3/8" CDX plywood. I did vent the ends, on the inside of the beams by about 4 inches. Not sure why really, walls are sealed tight.

I  had that same thought, about walls, when thinking about insulating the floor of my porch and under the batteries.  I just thought "well, walls are sealed tight so why not a floor?"

There are two arguments for keeping the bottom side of an insulated floor less than completely tight.

First, the plywood or OSB subfloor is a good vapor barrier and should stop most moisture migration. Finish floors usually make this even more "tight" on the top side. Then you want it more vapor permeable on the other (cold in winter) side of the insulation in order to dry out the cavity. You want to restrict air movement in the insulation while allowing vapor movement.

Second, if a plumbing leak should happen you would want some drainage to alert you to the problem. You don't want a sealed bathtub on the bottom of the joists.

Quote from: John Raabe on August 26, 2011, 01:15:47 PM
There are two arguments for keeping the bottom side of an insulated floor less than completely tight.

First, the plywood or OSB subfloor is a good vapor barrier and should stop most moisture migration. Finish floors usually make this even more "tight" on the top side. Then you want it more vapor permeable on the other (cold in winter) side of the insulation in order to dry out the cavity. You want to restrict air movement in the insulation while allowing vapor movement.

Second, if a plumbing leak should happen you would want some drainage to alert you to the problem. You don't want a sealed bathtub on the bottom of the joists.

Good point.

So I think the hardware cloth is the answer for rodents in the insulation and under the batteries a layer of foam board is probably just fine on top of an insulated but not closed in floor.

Why the insulation under the batteries?  Well I've put them on a 6" raised floor to make it easier to work on them and just thought it might help to insulate them better from the cold air underneath.  I plan to have the porch completely insulated before winter so the solar heating I get via the windows doesn't escape so quickly.

Acid eats foam so try to seal the surface under the batteries, but leave a way to drain. I give our batteries a good wash down with clear water a couple times a year. I don't use any alkalies for cleaning as I have a fear about getting any into the acid. Hose 'em off with water.

Quote from: MountainDon on August 26, 2011, 03:00:56 PM
Acid eats foam so try to seal the surface under the batteries, but leave a way to drain. I give our batteries a good wash down with clear water a couple times a year. I don't use any alkalies for cleaning as I have a fear about getting any into the acid. Hose 'em off with water.

Hmmm not something I ever thought about....and without a means of catching or draining the water I'll have to consider some options -- perhaps a rubber 'pan' under them with a drain in the center that prevents acid or water from reaching the foam insulation.

Worth a try I guess....but probably another year out from getting done.

At this point I'm thinking of adding 4 more batteries because I want to be able to run both the Fridge and Freezer all summer if need be but I'm afraid I don't have that much reserve power just yet....and with the solar panels tripping last trip and the MPPT controller flaking out I'm wondering if I don't have other issues that need resolving too.....ahhhh life.

You might look for some rubberized or heavy rubber belting.  Like the type they use in gravel pits to move aggregate and sand on those conveyor belts.  I find it on occasion laying around at yard sales or construction auctions or   It is most times about 1/4 inch thick and would work well to line a place for batteries to sit on.  Most the  time it is pretty cheap!   

Rubber Stall mats at any farm supply store ( Tractor Supply, Southern States) 3/4" thick

Quote from: Redoverfarm on August 26, 2011, 05:45:39 PM
Rubber Stall mats at any farm supply store ( Tractor Supply, Southern States) 3/4" thick

That's a great idea!

I use an old rubber truck bed mat for the same purpose. OJ, waiting for some more pictures!

OK it's time to get moving!

Today I plan to finish off the staining we started in this picture and maybe get a few more things done.

Seeya!

This weekend we made a short trip up to the cabin (two days is REALLY short!) for a couple of reasons:

1.  Last trip I didn't have enough stain and wanted to get the staining done.
2.  I left the propane bottle hooked up and turned ON when we left last weekend 
3.  I was worried about the solar power as something seemed amiss last weekend.

So my son and I raced up early Saturday morning (yes we made the 4 1/2 hr drive just to come back the next day) with a load of supplies (insulation for the porch, composter, roof and some walls) and stopped at the 'Do It Best' on the way to grab some Chestnut stain.  We also had the new Sureflo pump with us and hoped to install it.


Once we arrived and were settled we set about staining.  We spent about 2 hours masking and staining the walls.  The hardest part was getting up to the loft windows to mask them and then going up and spraying the stain with the pump sprayer!  I'm glad I won't have to do that very often!


As usual we have a lot of stuff to clean up and remove but with the truck we're slowly bringing back junk.  Meanwhile we finished 90% of the staining!


The solar power seems fine except that I get a HVD alarm every day.  I need to investigate that but must admit that Morningstar support sucks.  I likely won't buy another piece of their equipment because with the exception of the first inquiry I made with them I've not had a SINGLE response in 6 or 7 attempts.  They seem to just ignore me.

Luckily the MPPT controller seems fine and I was able to log in (seems my Ethernet port on my laptop was the issue previously) and check things out -- all seems well.


I can't tell you how awesome it is to have a truck!  I love my Jeep but with a truck I no longer need the dang trailer every other trip!  The gas I'm saving alone is paying part of the truck payment monthly!  Who can beat that?


The last thing I did was get the conduit stubbed up the wall and into the AC panel.  Now I can run the wires from the inverter up the conduit to the panel and if need be, replace them with heavier wire in the future without having to rip a wall apart

I also sprayed foam (great stuff) into the hole around the conduit and the black iron pipe through the wall for the propane.  OH and speaking of propane, the oven works great!  I just had to read the book once more and noticed the:  it may take 30 to 60 seconds for the oven to light.  We used it to warm left overs for dinner Saturday nigh and I used it to keep bacon warm today!  It's awesome!

And finally (no picture here though) I fixed about 30 feet of fencing today too   Only another 3000 or so to go!  Damn cows!

Cheers
Erik

PS.  It was totally awesome listening to the Seahawks game on the radio with my son last night.  I'm not a sports fan but relaxing in the cabin makes all things enjoyable

Timkel you'll have to start a new thread to show yours -- after all, I'd love to see more and I'm sure others would too.  Very nice looking cabin!

No cabin work for me this weekend -- had a child to marry off   So, relax today, easy week at work (I hope) and then it's off to the cabin again to get some weekend work in...have to try to get it ready for my parents to come out and do a little bird hunting and relaxing later in the month

That was a pretty smooth hijack!

No problem - moved it to it's own thread.