Building a severely simple house!!!

[1201]

I need some extreme or not so extreme ideas on the simplest way ,labor-wise, to build a house!!!

lets assume that I want to do most of the labor myself- with an extra set or two of hands available when needed.

example, I could sheath the house with OSB, but it would be easier and faster to sheat with foam . the price would be about the same, and the lighter foam would provide insulating value in addition to being easier to put up. Foam also wouldnt rot over time being exposed to moisture.

the ultimate goal is to build a house for LESS than $50 a square foot.

I am already planning to include money saving ideas like

1. building a rectangular house with no bumpouts or notches.
2. forgoing the garage -.my cheap cars dont need a separate room to be stored.
3. using modular design. 4 foot modules and everything lands on 2ft oc studs
4. inexpensive countertops and kitchen/bathroom components.
5. avoid doors where not necessary
6. avoid windows where unnecessary - eg, no windows in bathrooms or clothes closets.
7. building UP! two story instead of one story
8. straight run stairs
9. Shed roof is the cheapest
10. no overhangs
11. steel sheathing
12. steel roof
13. compact plumbing design
14. 32' or shorter span
Ive been thinking about this for a year and Ive already incorporated a lot of things but I feel like I havent done enough to get down to below $50 psf

what else am I missing?
one area of concern is interior walls. drywall is CHEAP but requires finishing, which Ive heard is very labor intensive. What are easier alternatives? anything that doesnt require finishing?

I look forward to some ideas.

[Don_P]

Things to think about;
Foam sheathing, sheathing also provides bracing, foam does not.
Watch your roof with your module spacing, I see people sweat over the walls and blow that savings at the roof.
If no windows in a bath mechanical ventilation is required
I avoid straight run stairs whenever possible, that is a long fall
Shed roof is cheapest on narrow buildings
Overhangs protect siding and walls, pay a little now or much more later
Steel siding over foam sheathing does not create bracing
I like lots of wood with some drywall, but I have a sawmill and shop, it doesn't get much cheaper than drywall, esp if you finish it yourself.
wider spans.. look at the siding cost on your shed roof design, gable trusses will be a cheaper overall option.

economize space, avoid hallways and other "wasted" spaces when possible.
A sf price goal is deceptive. I can drive sf price down by simply adding large low detail spaces. A smaller house will have a higher sf cost but a lower overall cost. And remember cheap is not necessarily cheap over the life of the house.

[akwoodchuck]

Time is money...a single-level ranch or shotgun-style house with panel (T-111) siding, a low-pitched truss roof, drywall, carpet, sheet vinyl, particle board cabinetry, MDF doors/trim, economy fixtures, is the cheapest possible...AKA "tract home"...

[1201]

Things to think about;
Foam sheathing, sheathing also provides bracing, foam does not.
Watch your roof with your module spacing, I see people sweat over the walls and blow that savings at the roof.
If no windows in a bath mechanical ventilation is required
I avoid straight run stairs whenever possible, that is a long fall
Shed roof is cheapest on narrow buildings
Overhangs protect siding and walls, pay a little now or much more later
Steel siding over foam sheathing does not create bracing
I like lots of wood with some drywall, but I have a sawmill and shop, it doesn't get much cheaper than drywall, esp if you finish it yourself.
wider spans.. look at the siding cost on your shed roof design, gable trusses will be a cheaper overall option.

economize space, avoid hallways and other "wasted" spaces when possible.
A sf price goal is deceptive. I can drive sf price down by simply adding large low detail spaces. A smaller house will have a higher sf cost but a lower overall cost. And remember cheap is not necessarily cheap over the life of the house.

Thanks for the feedback don. Appreciated.

To address some of your points:
Foam sheathing can be used with sheet metal x braces, or plywood at the corners so bracing should not be a problem.

I guess with operable windows in the bathrooms then a vent is not required? Great point. I'll have to compare and research both options

Regarding straight stairs. I hear you but they save a considerable amount of space. I think I was able to reclaim more than 100 sf by switching to straight run from u shaped

When you say look at the siding cost of the shed roof- I think you mean see which one has more wall area? I'll have to look. I'm looking at a very low slope shed roof so I think it wins but I'll really have to compare. Very easy to do in SketchUp.

Thanks for the feedback

[1201]

Time is money...a single-level ranch or shotgun-style house with panel (T-111) siding, a low-pitched truss roof, drywall, carpet, sheet vinyl, particle board cabinetry, MDF doors/trim, economy fixtures, is the cheapest possible...AKA "tract home"...

Amen to that! Time IS money and that's why I'm looking for the least time consuming options that also take the least amount of skilled labor.

Eg epoxied concrete floor on the first floor. I've seen a plywood second floor and I thought it was a great idea as I think it would save even the time and cost of installing carpet?

Other things im thinking to save time. Does the first floor ceiling need drywall? I've seen exposed joists (usually more expensive builds) but wouldn't this be a way to save time and money? That look is not for everyone but I personally like the more industrial esthetic.

Can I pour a slab in sections? I've seen it done for garages can it be done for a house? Diy slab on grade could save thousands.

Etc

[1201]

Oh I was also going to say-where can one find a good quality t1 11 nowadays. What I see at the big box stores, is junk

[akwoodchuck]

Roseburg and Georgia-Pacific are both good...the LP stuff I wouldn't use on a doghouse....

[Dave Sparks]

If this is inspected the drywall will be required on the ceiling for fire safety. Unless I am missing something

A garage will protect any vehicle from rodent damage. Some of my offgrid clients often start with a garage before the house for alot of good reasons.

[1201]

Roseburg and Georgia-Pacific are both good...the LP stuff I wouldn't use on a doghouse....

Thanks! I'll check them out. T111 goes up quick. I was thinking of already painted standing seam panels for the roof and walls but I'll look into the t1 11

[MountainDon]

.... 4 foot modules and everything lands on 2ft oc studs

24" OC wall studs can make it more difficult to place things that need to or are usually attached to wall studs: electrical boxes, cabinets..... With 24" OC studs 1/2" drywall ban be wavy-ish, not as firm as you might like. 5/8" drywall might be better.

On that thought it can also be benefical when it comes to mounting cabinets to walls in kitchens and baths to install horizontal runs of 2x's at the height that would be used to screw the cabinets in place. That takes some planning but means you don't have to find a stud to hang the wall cabinets. Also good for attaching bathroom handrails.

eg, no windows in bathrooms

as was pointed out by Don_P there is the question of ventilation. As well, a windowless bathroom will require a light turned on every time it is used. Maybe not a big deal, but some folks have trouble turning off lights.

no overhangs

Overhangs are not just architectural details, they do provide better weather protection for where the wall meets the roof. That can be a point of water ingress w/o any overhang.

Speaking of roofs... where will this be located? In areas subject to high winds a hip roof is often better than a gable roof as there are no gables to be picked at by the winds. Winds flow over the roof better. Properly anchored roof trusses to wall top plates will help keep the roof on.

drywall is CHEAP but requires finishing

Drywall is a cost effective wall and ceiling cover. It can be done well by a DIY'er. There is a learning curve. Proper tools, an assortment of drywall knives of increasing widths helps a lot. Or hiring a drywall crew can be a good thing too as they can do a great job in a short time. Drywall, done right, is also a big help in air sealing the interior. Lots of air can escape into the attic space with lousy air sealing.  It is my belief we should build for the long haul. A little spent now, maybe more time taken now, can reap energy efficiency benefits for decades. Even if something like T&G boards are used to be the cosmetic wall or ceiling finish in some areas, first installing srywall can result in a better sealed wall or ceiling. If you know ahead of time that certain areas will be T&G or something else, those areas only need taping and rough jointing. It is also required for fire protection in some areas.

I could sheath the house with OSB, but it would be easier and faster to sheat with foam

I am a big fan of using sheet sheathing like OSB and of foam sheet insulation on the exterior. Foam over the osb. The osb provides good anti-racking structural strength and the exterior sheet foam provides good insulation over the studs and all. The osb panel nailed to the studs and the top and bottom wall plate makes a strong wall.

I don't like T1-11 types of exterior finish siding especially when it is used as a structural element as well as cosmetic. After many years it always seems to have issues around the lower foot or so. At least that is what I see around me in NM. We are mostly slab on grade and the T1-11 failures occur along the lower wall edge.  I think a layer of structural sheathing on the studs, under the weather-resistive layer makes for a better building with a longer lifespan.

I have done my own DIY concrete driveway sections and can attest to the fact that it is a lot of work; can take longer than you might think. But it is doable.

I agree with Don_P on long straight runs of stairs. Breaking the long run between two floors into two or three shorter runs can be safer. The space under the stairs can often be used for practical storage, as long as the underside area is finished with drywall to slow the spread of fire. That said I also like a single floor layout even with the larger roof area that entails. There are times in life when stairs may be a disadvantage. That may be just a personal choice. My sons' house, a three-story, has 6 runs, most with 5 or six treads.

I also agree with Dave about a garage being actually useful protection. But then I love my garage and wish it was bigger to provide more workspace. 

What kind of HVAC system?

What is the overall size goal? The number of rooms and total livable square feet?

What climate zone?

[1201]

If this is inspected the drywall will be required on the ceiling for fire safety. Unless I am missing something

A garage will protect any vehicle from rodent damage. Some of my offgrid clients often start with a garage before the house for alot of good reasons.

I hadnt seen any code saying this but i looked and it looks like if using i joists then there has to be a cover. i dont see anything if using 2x

good points. ive never used a garage but ive always lived in the city.

[1201]

24" OC wall studs can make it more difficult to place things that need to or are usually attached to wall studs: electrical boxes, cabinets..... With 24" OC studs 1/2" drywall ban be wavy-ish, not as firm as you might like. 5/8" drywall might be better.

good points however i want to go with OVE framing for less thermal bridging

On that thought it can also be benefical when it comes to mounting cabinets to walls in kitchens and baths to install horizontal runs of 2x's at the height that would be used to screw the cabinets in place. That takes some planning but means you don't have to find a stud to hang the wall cabinets. Also good for attaching bathroom handrails.
as was pointed out by Don_P there is the question of ventilation. As well, a windowless bathroom will require a light turned on every time it is used. Maybe not a big deal, but some folks have trouble turning off lights.

that wont be a big deal. LED lights consume an insignificant amount of energy

Overhangs are not just architectural details, they do provide better weather protection for where the wall meets the roof. That can be a point of water ingress w/o any overhang.

this is true. and the jury is still out on this one. i do see a lot of buildings with no overhang and no visible water damage

Speaking of roofs... where will this be located? In areas subject to high winds a hip roof is often better than a gable roof as there are no gables to be picked at by the winds. Winds flow over the roof better. Properly anchored roof trusses to wall top plates will help keep the roof on.

agree. this is in north texas. no significant wind loads. plan now is for a very low slope roof. I might go standing seam, or torch down roofing.

Drywall is a cost effective wall and ceiling cover. It can be done well by a DIY'er. There is a learning curve. Proper tools, an assortment of drywall knives of increasing widths helps a lot. Or hiring a drywall crew can be a good thing too as they can do a great job in a short time. Drywall, done right, is also a big help in air sealing the interior. Lots of air can escape into the attic space with lousy air sealing.  It is my belief we should build for the long haul. A little spent now, maybe more time taken now, can reap energy efficiency benefits for decades. Even if something like T&G boards are used to be the cosmetic wall or ceiling finish in some areas, first installing srywall can result in a better sealed wall or ceiling. If you know ahead of time that certain areas will be T&G or something else, those areas only need taping and rough jointing. It is also required for fire protection in some areas.
I am a big fan of using sheet sheathing like OSB and of foam sheet insulation on the exterior. Foam over the osb. The osb provides good anti-racking structural strength and the exterior sheet foam provides good insulation over the studs and all. The osb panel nailed to the studs and the top and bottom wall plate makes a strong wall.

I don't like T1-11 types of exterior finish siding especially when it is used as a structural element as well as cosmetic. After many years it always seems to have issues around the lower foot or so. At least that is what I see around me in NM. We are mostly slab on grade and the T1-11 failures occur along the lower wall edge.  I think a layer of structural sheathing on the studs, under the weather-resistive layer makes for a better building with a longer lifespan.

agree. ive had t1 11 on my current house. it lasted 30 years but i ended up putting vinyl over it.

I have done my own DIY concrete driveway sections and can attest to the fact that it is a lot of work; can take longer than you might think. But it is doable.

this is encouraging

I agree with Don_P on long straight runs of stairs. Breaking the long run between two floors into two or three shorter runs can be safer. The space under the stairs can often be used for practical storage, as long as the underside area is finished with drywall to slow the spread of fire. That said I also like a single floor layout even with the larger roof area that entails. There are times in life when stairs may be a disadvantage. That may be just a personal choice. My sons' house, a three-story, has 6 runs, most with 5 or six treads.

I also agree with Dave about a garage being actually useful protection. But then I love my garage and wish it was bigger to provide more workspace. 

What kind of HVAC system?

conventional heat pump system with exposed ducting combined with some ductless mini splits

What is the overall size goal? The number of rooms and total livable square feet?

goal is a 48x32 building with 4 bedrooms , and as many "Away" rooms

What climate zone?

climate zone 3 a. hot humid with mild winters and no snow load

[WISteven]

First of all you have to decide on a foundation. The material costs for a basement beam, floor joist, 3/4" subfloor, 16" OC exterior walls, exterior sheathing, 4/12 gable trusses, and roof sheathing should add up to around $6 sq ft.




1. building a rectangular house with no bumpouts or notches.     GOOD IDEA
2. forgoing the garage -.my cheap cars dont need a separate room to be stored.  GOOD IDEA
3. using modular design. 4 foot modules and everything lands on 2ft oc studs  I WOULDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT BEING ON 4' modules. A GIVEN LAYOUT MAY BE PERFECT FOR THE WALL SHEATHING BUT NOT BENEFICIAL FOR THE INSIDE WALL SHEATHING (drywall) OR THE ROOF SHEATHING
4. inexpensive countertops and kitchen/bathroom components.   GOOD IDEA
5. avoid doors where not necessary  ?? WHO PUTS IN EXTRA DOORS
6. avoid windows where unnecessary - eg, no windows in bathrooms or clothes closets.  I CAN GET WINDOWS FROM AN AUCTION ALL DAY FOR $10 EACH. GOOD ONES, ANDERSON/PELLA/MARVIN.  NO NEED TO SKIMP.
7. building UP! two story instead of one story  IT DEPENDS IF YOU WANT TO WALK UP A FULL FLIGHT TO GO TO BED. IF YOU ARE BUILDING YOURSELF THE EXTRA HEIGHT WORK BECOMES A REAL PROBLEM.
8. straight run stairs  I WOULDN"T WORRY ABOUT THIS. A STRAIGHT RUN WILL EAT UP 36sq ft. AN L-SHAPE WOULD EAT UP 45 sq ft of space.
9. Shed roof is the cheapest  SHED AND GABLE TRUSSES ARE ABOUT THE SAME PRICE UP UNTIL 24ft. AFTER THAT THE GABLES ARE CHEAPER.
10. no overhangs  BAD IDEA. THE HOUSE WILL LOOK TOO CHEAP AND OVERHANGS ARE USEFUL IN OTHER WAYS
11. steel sheathing  I DON'T KNOW OF ANY STEEL SIDING THAT IS CHEAP. I HATE VINYL BUT IT CAN BE HAD DIRT CHEAP
12. steel roof  SHINGLES ARE CHEAP AND IT'S EASY TO FIND A SPANISH SPEAKER TO DO IT CHEAP
13. compact plumbing design VERY GOOD IDEA, STACK YOUR BATHROOMS AND SHARE THE "wet wall" WITH THE KITCHEN.
14. 32' or shorter span  YES. 32' IS PLENTY. IN FACT 28' WOULD BE THE SWEET SPOT FOR 12" I JOIST SPANS

[WISteven]

You are down south, I can't see being too worried about thermal bridging.

I don't think I-joists need to be covered. Think of all the unfinished basements with exposed I-joists out there. I think you could have open framing but any rigid foam would need to be covered. I am in WI so we use the UDC but most everyone else uses the IRC.

I would sub out the drywall. Those guys can do it so fast. By the time you get to the drywall you are gonna want a break from the hard stuff.

I got new bath fans for $5 each from a building surplus store. No need to skimp on those.

[WISteven]

In a couple years I plan on building a retirement "cottage" for myself. I will be doing it with cash so it will take all I have just to build a 30x40 shell with just the minimum required to get a CO. So that is very similar to your project.

[WISteven]

"A sf price goal is deceptive. I can drive sf price down by simply adding large low detail spaces. A smaller house will have a higher sf cost but a lower overall cost. And remember cheap is not necessarily cheap over the life of the house."

I really hate the use of the SF price as if it's gospel.
My planned well will cost 10K no matter what size house. If I build a 600 sq ft house my well will cost 16.66/sq ft. If I build a 2000 sq ft house my well all of a sudden gets cheaper at $5 sqft.
Pretty much the same with my septic.

[WISteven]

"I've seen exposed joists (usually more expensive builds) but wouldn't this be a way to save time and money?"

Google "painting exposed basement ceiling".  I tore out the drywall and ceiling tiles in my basement and intend on painting it.

[1201]

First of all you have to decide on a foundation. The material costs for a basement beam, floor joist, 3/4" subfloor, 16" OC exterior walls, exterior sheathing, 4/12 gable trusses, and roof sheathing should add up to around $6 sq ft.

SWEET!!! the plan is a slab on grade foundation, unless there is something less costly out there.

1. building a rectangular house with no bumpouts or notches.     GOOD IDEA
2. forgoing the garage -.my cheap cars dont need a separate room to be stored.  GOOD IDEA
3. using modular design. 4 foot modules and everything lands on 2ft oc studs  I WOULDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT BEING ON 4' modules. A GIVEN LAYOUT MAY BE PERFECT FOR THE WALL SHEATHING BUT NOT BENEFICIAL FOR THE INSIDE WALL SHEATHING (drywall) OR THE ROOF SHEATHING
4. inexpensive countertops and kitchen/bathroom components.   GOOD IDEA
5. avoid doors where not necessary  ?? WHO PUTS IN EXTRA DOORS

lol. my spouse seems to think rooms like the pantry or walk in closet needs doors.

6. avoid windows where unnecessary - eg, no windows in bathrooms or clothes closets.  I CAN GET WINDOWS FROM AN AUCTION ALL DAY FOR $10 EACH. GOOD ONES, ANDERSON/PELLA/MARVIN.  NO NEED TO SKIMP.

how can you tell me you can get surplus windows for 10 bucks and then not share this auction is?

7. building UP! two story instead of one story  IT DEPENDS IF YOU WANT TO WALK UP A FULL FLIGHT TO GO TO BED. IF YOU ARE BUILDING YOURSELF THE EXTRA HEIGHT WORK BECOMES A REAL PROBLEM.
8. straight run stairs  I WOULDN"T WORRY ABOUT THIS. A STRAIGHT RUN WILL EAT UP 36sq ft. AN L-SHAPE WOULD EAT UP 45 sq ft of space.

if i can figure out how to post an image ill post the floor plan. i looked at l shaped and left quite a bit of unusable space

9. Shed roof is the cheapest  SHED AND GABLE TRUSSES ARE ABOUT THE SAME PRICE UP UNTIL 24ft. AFTER THAT THE GABLES ARE CHEAPER.

thats possible but how about with cut rafters?

10. no overhangs  BAD IDEA. THE HOUSE WILL LOOK TOO CHEAP AND OVERHANGS ARE USEFUL IN OTHER WAYS

house has a modern/ancient (depending on how you look at it) esthetic

11. steel sheathing  I DON'T KNOW OF ANY STEEL SIDING THAT IS CHEAP. I HATE VINYL BUT IT CAN BE HAD DIRT CHEAP

corrugated steel is $100/square, standing seam $200/square. Vinyl is in the same range around here. i like the steel because you can get the exact length ie 20ft where vinyl afaik tops out at 12 ft??

12. steel roof  SHINGLES ARE CHEAP AND IT'S EASY TO FIND A SPANISH SPEAKER TO DO IT CHEAP

if i do a gable roof ill definitely do shingles. with low slope i cant do shingles

13. compact plumbing design VERY GOOD IDEA, STACK YOUR BATHROOMS AND SHARE THE "wet wall" WITH THE KITCHEN.
14. 32' or shorter span  YES. 32' IS PLENTY. IN FACT 28' WOULD BE THE SWEET SPOT FOR 12" I JOIST SPANS

[1201]

You are down south, I can't see being too worried about thermal bridging.

I don't think I-joists need to be covered. Think of all the unfinished basements with exposed I-joists out there. I think you could have open framing but any rigid foam would need to be covered. I am in WI so we use the UDC but most everyone else uses the IRC.

I would sub out the drywall. Those guys can do it so fast. By the time you get to the drywall you are gonna want a break from the hard stuff.

I got new bath fans for $5 each from a building surplus store. No need to skimp on those.

i was thinking of open framing for just the first floor, where there is no insulation. i could also do it for the second floor i think, if i put foam insulation above the deck i only need r19 to meet code, vs r38 if its on the "attic" floor

you make a good point about the drywall. maybe ill bite the bullet and sub it out. the problem is , since im not a GC , finding skilled, affordable labor is ...tricky. any tips are greatly appreciated.


i need to find a building surplus store!!! the ones around here are not actual surplus even if they say they are.

[WISteven]

"thats possible but how about with cut rafters?"

There is much more involved with cut rafters (whether you go with 2x12's or I-joists) concerning loads and insulation. Trusses give you a free span underneath.

[1201]

"thats possible but how about with cut rafters?"

There is much more involved with cut rafters (whether you go with 2x12's or I-joists) concerning loads and insulation. Trusses give you a free span underneath.

True. Although I designed the building to have a loadt bearing wall along the center line for this reason.

Speaking of trusses - that brings up another question- is traditional framing the cheapest?

Example. If you price Menards 2 ft oc trusses they come out more expensive than their 10ft oc post frame trusses. For a 48 ft build you need 25 trusses vs 6 post frame trusses yet their post frame trusses are only about double the price of the 2 ft oc trusses.

So should I be looking at post frame construction instead of regular stick built?

[1201]

I decided to switch to a 4/12 pitch gable roof. lower cost shingles, lower cost insulation, etc.

it should cost about $2500 for the trusses.

[MushCreek]

Stairs eat space, period. My U-shaped stairs used about 64 square feet. I have a closet under the bottom, and another over the top, so some space was recovered.

I prefer large overhangs because they protect the walls and windows, keep rain away from the foundation, provide shade during the heat of summer, and they look better (just my opinion there).

One of my wife's few specific requests was an attached garage, so I obliged her. I have to live in this house with her, too.

My house is a simple rectangle with 5/12 pitch roof. Trusses are cheap. I used quality materials, such as ICF construction, Marvin windows, fiber cement siding, and a metal roof. Very heavily insulated. I plan to stay here until they carry me out toes-first. Our house is extremely energy-efficient, which saves money in the long run, and makes for better day-to-day comfort.

Our house certainly wasn't cheap, but it is durable, comfortable, long-lasting, and aesthetically pleasing. Building a house is a big project, and worth decent materials.

[1201]

Thanks for posting mush.
Questions- who designed your house plan? What did it end up costing psf? I talked to an icf contractor and it was 15 psf just for the forms?

[paul s]

Like this discussion,  have thought about this for years.

Low cost, easy to assemble, nice finish features.

Plywood is a time saver!!

Painted, stained, textured (batons), can be interior or exterior finish.

A square will enclose the most area with least material!!

So 24x24 or 12x48??

Lot of material, for walls that is, , let's go square.

To be continued ...

Paul