14 x 24 Olympic Peninsula

[glenn kangiser]

I really love that first picture, considerations.... reminds me of a cocoon where unwary travelers are taken in from a lonely country road only to wake up and find themselves completely mummified and wrapped in plastic shrink wrap..... ... don't worry ... it will get better... I told the voices to sit back and be quiet... [ouch]

Seriously,  it looks really cool..    

[PEG688]

Computer spaghetti, surely you jest.... that is barely a snack.  I have a pile of wires 2'square and 6 inches deep by my chair.... all UL approved of course...

Ya, we've seen the GK approved stuff before   UL much mo betta

[glenn kangiser]

Dang, PEG...don't be knocking my stuff...        

[considerations]

Hey PEG good to hear from you!   

I have a question for you, John Raabe and anyone else who wants to chime in.  Its about collar ties.  As you can see, I don't have any drywall up yet.  So....just to remind you'all; this is a:
14 x 24 with
10' - 2x6 stud walls and
2x10 rafters and a 2x10 ridge beam and
has 2 columns that are supported under the 1st floor with post and pier that run all the way to the ridge beam where they are saddle notched to support the ridge beam.  One of them is approximately in the center of the cabin both the long and the short dimension.

Do I need collar ties?

(start up the Jeopardy theme music.......)

[considerations]

"reminds me of a cocoon where unwary travelers are taken in from a lonely country road only to wake up and find themselves completely mummified and wrapped in plastic shrink wrap"

Just call me Shelob.

[considerations]

a ridge board

oops, at least the geography is right. 

Thanks for pursuing the issue.

[glenn kangiser]

"reminds me of a cocoon where unwary travelers are taken in from a lonely country road only to wake up and find themselves completely mummified and wrapped in plastic shrink wrap"

Just call me Shelob.

Probably more like, "Her Ladyship," for you.

[PEG688]

quote author=considerations link=topic=4499.msg105633#msg105633 date=1262829701]



[/quote]

C

   I'm going to base my suggestions on this one gable end photo, and add that you have a modified ridge beam as you stated it has bearing posts under it mid span, or "two posts that go to direct bearing"  some where in the middle ----ish.


  A ridge beam ( generally) is a true beam a 4 by or 6 by or bigger that is supported on it's ends , some time  the full length of the building , some times "posted to bearing it mid span if a beam can't be had to span the full length. Of course there are variations on all of that.


But cutting to the chase with what that photo shows I'd say collar ties are in order for your place. They could be added on every 4th rafter pair , I'd say one on each side sort of "beam like" and you could S/R around them , or one on every rafter pair and then you could S/r a lowered flat ceiling using the collar ties as joist.


  Hope this helps, this is your own plan isn't it? You did all those cad drawings of your layout etc. I should revisit the earlier part of this thread but lets see what questions or answers this post brings forth.

   

[PEG688]

On another thought you could use collar ties on every rafter pair starting at each gable back to your "inner" posts.

So flat ceilings from the gable in , and a "vaulted" ceiling in the center section between the two posts, if they are at all symmetrical. Might make a more interesting space with the ceiling changes.
And tuck a ceiling fan in the vaulted area to move warm air around, winter and summer you'd  would make good use of the fan I think.   
 

     

[considerations]

"Hope this helps, this is your own plan isn't it?" 

Yes, but designed esthetically, certainly not from the view point of an experienced builder. 

I appreciate your reply.   

Is there a minimum distance from the bottom of the ridge....ummm board  (always learning)  to the bottom of the collar tie that I should observe?  It's 102" from the ridge board to the top of the loft floor.  I'd like to clear the top of the back door and the top of the front window that is in the pic you were referring to, the top of both being about the same height.

Maybe I can use some "interesting" looking ties, like real beams, not just lumber?

[considerations]

"Probably more like, "Her Ladyship," for you."

Flattery will get you almost anywhere Glenn....(the operative word being "almost".  )

[glenn kangiser]

I'm  just trying to keep myself from getting wrapped in Saran Wrap. 

[PEG688]

[Is there a minimum distance from the bottom of the ridge....ummm board  (always learning)  to the bottom of the collar tie that I should observe?

  No , not really. Generally it's a 1/3 top section, or so. DonP had a thread about the thrust created and he may have more info about what would be code allowable or demanded.

But IF you added a collar tie on ever other rafter pair and used say a 2x6 or 4x6 if you want that beam look, the 4by would be problematic to attach well, it would need lag bolts or better yet thru bolts IMO to do the job. So what I'm saying is IF those collar ties are touching the under side of the ridge and are firmly attached the ridge can't come down , which means the walls can't bow out due to rafter thrust. Simple common sense engineering.     

   I'd like to clear the top of the back door and the top of the front window that is in the pic you were referring to, the top of both being about the same height.

  A bit of space above the window and door would look good ans well as function normally.

Maybe I can use some "interesting" looking ties, like real beams, not just lumber?

  When you get into "interesting" you create more issues with attachment , you bring questionable lumber or tree limbs into the mix , all wild cards in there respective strenght or lack there of.

That being said, adding any thing will add strenght.

 

[Jens]

is that a weight loss measure for the roof?  looks cozy

[PEG688]

  Ridge beam:

 

A true beam , supported on either end by posts that go to direct bearing. Meaning there is a post and / or solid blocking all the way to the concrete foundation in this case.


  Ridge board:

   

This had full 8 foot ceilings in that second floor area , or close to it.



 

[considerations]

"I'm  just trying to keep myself from getting wrapped in Saran Wrap."

Sorry, no guarantees.

[considerations]

"IF you added a collar tie on ever other rafter pair and used say a 2x6 or 4x6 if you want that beam look, the 4by would be problematic to attach well, it would need lag bolts or better yet thru bolts IMO to do the job. So what I'm saying is IF those collar ties are touching the under side of the ridge and are firmly attached the ridge can't come down , which means the walls can't bow out due to rafter thrust."

Thank you, I will do it, use 2x's and lots of nails(?)...everything else is built stout.  No reason to make this an exception.

[Redoverfarm]

"IF you added a collar tie on ever other rafter pair and used say a 2x6 or 4x6 if you want that beam look, the 4by would be problematic to attach well, it would need lag bolts or better yet thru bolts IMO to do the job. So what I'm saying is IF those collar ties are touching the under side of the ridge and are firmly attached the ridge can't come down , which means the walls can't bow out due to rafter thrust."

Thank you, I will do it, use 2x's and lots of nails(?)...everything else is built stout.  No reason to make this an exception.

You "could" apply 1-(2X to each side of the rafter at the intervals(every 4') and then insert a single one in between those and achieve a beam like appearence without the heavy atachment.  It would only require you to the pitch cut on that middle one a little shorter than the tie's on each end.  I would probably not try to insert it though but nail one side up, place filler against the one installed and temp nail. Then nail up the other one.  I think ScottA used two 2X's on his open and finished them using stain and sealer..   

[PEG688]

I hate the ole "lots of nails" adage.

A proper nailing pattern or schedule is called for,



The ole two , one, two,  one, spacing. Also on a finer note , see the hammer dents, that insures the members are pulled together firmly. One thing nail guns will NOT do is "suck up" two members , the nails driven with nail guns go in so quick or with less force they NEVER pull things together. Even wall sheathing , if it's bowed , which it generally is, does not get sucked up tightly. I like to TRY, I don't aways succeed, to check window and door RO before I set the window or door, that the sheathing  is firmly touching the framing.

The reason for this is at trim out IF the sheathing hasn't been sucked up the jambs and window surrounds will NOT flush out with the interior wall surface m where that sheet rock ( most common)  , T&G paneling   or what ever else some one might use a s a wall finish inside.

  In your case the sucked up concept is structural , the better they are attached the better they hold together.       

[considerations]

"I hate the ole "lots of nails" adage."

Sorry PEG688sama....couched in the form of an oblique question (?).....and I got an answer.   

I will follow your nailing guidance as well.   (with a hammer)

If I've developed any one skill during this project it is that I can produce some really fine hammer dents.

[Solar Burrito]

You alive out there? Haven't posted since January... so I wanted to check if your still kickin...

[Dog]

Hey Girl..how are things coming along? The place is looking great!

[considerations]

Yes - I'm still here.  I know, its been forever since I checked in, but things have been well, interesting.  My way of generating income for the last several years has been telecommuting, providing consulting and research services.  The trend in this field has pretty much followed the rest of the economy, so things have been a little "thin".  I've had to focus my attention on generating income from more than one source.

Anyhow, progress on the cabin tapers off as I use up the building materials I'd already purchased...Good thing I had hoarded long term food supplies.  Yag....I'm now pretty comfortable with rotating long term storage foods into the daily diet. 

In some ways this year has been hilarious, and in others a sober look at what a real economic depression could be like.   I am, if nothing else, still willing to experiment with various income generating ventures.  I've mowed lawns (really big ones) and pastures and taken on farm chores for others so they can leave on vacations, etc.  I actually really enjoy it with the weather being so nice, usually I'm chained to a chair in front of a computer as the nice weather marches by.  I've been pleased to be out in the sun and fresh air so much this spring and summer....and little contracts have come along here and there.  So, I have enough...not to make huge strides on the cabin completion, but the bills are paid and some occasional discretionary income. 

Its been a wonderful opportunity to hone my bartering skills as well...I think I do ok in that arena.

I have installed a screen door....wonderful improvement, added a porch to one of the sheds, built a crib for the firewood, etc.

Plus in March I almost lost Mom, she had a major health hiccup....had to call the sisters and get them into town, it was touch and go for a while.  Since then, with her additional diminished physical strength, I've spent time doing more chores for her that are now beyond her capabilities.....in an effort to keep her living "independently".  Things like pressure washing her house and painting the patio, replacing doorbells and.....anyway the list goes on and has gotten a little larger to include things that she used to be able to do.  She'll be 81 in a few days, and a good friend, kind and courteous.  It's time well spent, soon enough I will have plenty of time for myself.

Anyway, that's enough data, suffice it to say I'm doing ok and my little trials and tribs are no more than anyone else experiences at one time or another.   

I appreciate your interest and apologize for not checking in more often....lurked some, but not commented much, mostly because this forum is mainly about progress on building projects....and I haven't made a lot this year, but, I'm one of the lucky ones, no debt.. It would have been a disaster if I'd had a mortgage or any debts at all...whew.

[rick91351]

Hey just because you are not sawing boards and pounding nails does not mean we do not enjoy hearing for you. 

[Redoverfarm]

Good to hear from you.  Glad you are making it.  Keep in touch.  I am sure we haven't taught you everything yet.