Project #2!

pocono_couple · March 23, 2014, 01:53:23 PM

i did it all at the same time.. put concrete in the hole.. laid some horizontal rebar in that.. then stuck the tube down the hold.. put some vertical rebar which went to the bottom of the hole.. then filled it up..

it seemed to me that , when i lived in NH, sand was brought in for back fill.. i asked the foundation guy here about that.. and he had never heard of it.. always backfilled with material from the site.. so i did the same thing.. don't know if that is an issue, but the fill from the site is loaded with rock.. most difficult digging that i have ever done! it took hours to get to 42 inches.. two summers ago, my son and i put some fence posts in at my x wife's property in NH.. we went down about the same depth.. took 20 min. per hole!! no bar to pry rocks.. just a shove and post hole digger..

North Sask · March 23, 2014, 03:35:46 PM

It sounds like you did a decent job of constructing your deck foundation. I am surprised that this would result in heaving. Originally I thought you meant that you constructed something like this (with a 42" deep pier):

That pic is from a Fine Homebuilding article that does a good job of discussing frost heave.

Here are their recommendations on controlling frost heave for footings and piers:

Code mandates that support structures either extend below the local frost line or be protected by insulation so that the bearing soil is not subject to freezing and, thus, heaving. Frost heave also can be controlled by backfilling around piers with gravel to promote drainage, using a sleeve to prevent ice from gripping the concrete, or pouring footing bases that resist upward movement.

If I understand you correctly, you used the last measure (poured a footing base that will resist upward movement). That is the same principle that is used with a belled pile. The bell resists upward movement allowing you to not have to drill as deep when installing a cast-in-place drilled shaft. If you recall, I mentioned that the building load load from your skids would expand by a trapezoidal distribution through your gravel pad foundation. The same is true with the upward resistance from your footing base. Here is a pic to illustrate:

Now the frost has to lift a huge mass of soil to get your deck to heave. So as I said, I am surprised that you are having issues with your deck. My only thought is that 42" wasn't deep enough. Is that a number provided by your local building authority?

Here is another solution for piers from Fine Homebuilding. They add insulation and gravel backfill to a decent pier geometry.

For the sake of completeness, I should mention that you can use a plain cylindrical shaft as a foundation but you have to go deep. Driven timber piles or steel pipe piles are an example. If the pile is exposed to cold temperatures, part of the reason you need to go deep is so that the pile can resist frost heave. Frost will grab on to the upper portion of the pile and try to lift it out of the ground. The portion of the pile below the frost line will resist. You need to be deep enough that the force holding the pile in place is greater than the upward frost force.

March 26, 2014, 05:19:06 PM

the big day!

this is the quiet before the storm.. notice the neat, orderly, appearance of our theater shop

kind of looks like my basement at home.. but I am not entirely responsible for the shop at school.. my boss Floyd is.. and he will probably read this at some point.

I was feeling a little philosophical today... thinking that so many people might walk by a pile of lumber like this and see nothing more than a pile of lumber... but then there are those like us on this site who see a pile of lumber like this but who, in their minds, see this!

For most of the students, this was a first time experience.. we tacked the joists in place from the outside with 16d nails.. and then we slid 2x blocks underneath the deck and installed joist hangers.. that was a bit of overkill, but it gave the kids a chance to practice swinging the hammers.. and it made a lot of noise! At any rate, they were attentive for an hour and a half, and we made good progress.. looks like I have to remind one of them that the glasses are to be worn and not dangled from his neck!

it sure is nice to see this project begin to take shape.. in no time, the walls will be in place, and it will begin to look like home.. maybe!

Redoverfarm · March 26, 2014, 05:29:32 PM

Looking good. I love it when kids get involved and hopefully I can teach them something. I know with my son when I started the cabin he was by my side for 6 years ( less school) and to this day he has demonstrated skills that other persons couldn't believe he knew anything about. They would say " where did you learn that at" and his reply was " my Dad showed me how". Always puts a smile on your face.

Was going to ask you when you talked at the kids at school helping to frame it out and I forgot. Is there a Vocational program at your school?

pocono_couple · March 26, 2014, 06:05:11 PM

no vocational program, john... a long time ago, they had a woodshop.. we tend to be college prep oriented.. but i try to inject what I can! so far, I built two boats with individual students.. built the shed with the stage crew.. and have taken kids to Maine 5 years in a row for community service trips which have included lots of neat construction projects.. and now this project.. I wish we had a space that we could dedicate to small boat building.. i would jump at that opportunity... but space is a premium, and manual arts does not happen to be on the list of priorities..

March 26, 2014, 06:43:28 PM

oops.. also meant to respond to your comment about working with one's son.. I guess that relationship can be trying at times, but rarely encountered that issue.. When my son finished his freshman year in high school, he went to live with his mother in NH.. a long way from PA. Since that time we have worked on projects together when the opportunity arises, and I have found few things to be as satisfying.. it really is a joy.. but.. I also have a daughter, and I taught her how to cross-stitch when she was a little girl.. ( i am a Renaissance kind of guy) and someone asked her "did your mother teach you how to do that?", and she answered " no , my father did" that put a smile on my face

Don_P · March 26, 2014, 08:01:10 PM

Good deal teaching the kids, I hope we learn to do more of that. We are doing the next generation a disservice when we ignore teaching the trades. Everyone will live in a house... I hope.

Backing up a little bit;

Quoteput some vertical rebar which went to the bottom of the hole..

Since this was poured monlithically I doubt what I'm going to say is what happened but it is something I've seen happen a couple of times. A "wet stabbed" rebar or anchor bolt pushes the rock away from it and is encased either in air or with just cream over it. When a footing is poured and a couple of straight rebars are wet stabbed into it, then the tube is set over it and poured, you can push over or pick up the poured tube and the rebar will easily pull out of the footing. If you set a grid of horizontal bars in a cross pattern # in the bottom of the footing hole tied to chairs to keep them up ~3" off the bottom, then an L is bent on the bottom of the vertical rods and they are tied under the grid, then either pour in two batches or slip the tube over the verticals and pour monolithically, the footing and pier are securely tied together. An L of rebar cannot be withdrawn from inside a pour. I learned that... twice

.

If you do set on a gravel pad it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some mobile home anchors attached to brackets on the skids for wind.

pocono_couple · March 27, 2014, 05:16:22 AM

thanks Don, I agree with your thoughts about teaching the trades... my sense is that an apprentice type approach is the most effective manner to do that... the sooner kids actually get a hammer in their hands the better!

thanks for the tips on pouring the piers... that will come in handy in the future.. and i may have to open this particular one up and totally re-do it this summer.

as for the anchors.. i was trying to find out just what they do for mobile homes and, more particularly, for park model trailers that are becoming popular in campgrounds... and, i was also curious about what the folks who are building tiny houses on trailers are doing about freeze/thaw cycles.. so far, none of the blogs that I have read about tiny houses seem to mention the issue.

pocono_couple · March 29, 2014, 06:20:35 AM

The usual routine on Fridays after school is to rush home, put on my jeans, and relax with a cup of tea! But, yesterday I stopped by the shop and noticed that there was no rehearsal for the spring production - that meant that I could work in the shop and make as much noise as I could

So, I quickly changed, tuned the radio to Froggy 101, and started cutting! After a few hours, I had cut the cripples and jack studs and built the window and door headers...

I also finished the deck, and took time to do a quality check on all the work we did on Wednesday..

After breakfast, I will head in and spend the morning working on the next phase... picking up additional materials, squaring up the deck, putting down the subfloor, and building some walls! I sure am fortunate to be able to use the shop space.. we are supposed to get 3 inches of rain this weekend..

March 29, 2014, 02:01:22 PM

It was dry this morning so I took advantage of the opportunity to take a longer trip to a small lumber yard that had the 5/4 by 12 by 10' clear pine boards that I need for the scroll boards.. i am anxious to lay them out - and to measure 3 times.. each board cost $44! then i stopped at Lowe's to pick up the rest of my 2x4's and the half inch plywood that i need for sheathing. That chewed up some time, but I now have materials that should keep me going for a few days..

After squaring up the frame, I laid the first sheet of sub floor down and saw that the edge was not landing on the middle of a joist.. in fact it was not landing on a joist at all!! Who measured this thing ? ( and let's not even ask the question who is the math teacher

) ok.. so in education these days problem solving is one of the big buzz phrases.. but very few of the problems that we get to tackle in school are real life problems! I have found that construction has presented me with a whole array of problem solving opportunities, and it really can be challenging and fun as long as I don't dwell on the fact that I usually, I am the one who created the problems!

so, what to do.. do i add another joist? that would work, but i would have to add two.. because i would encounter the same issue with the second course of plywood.. and how did this happen in the first place?? that was the first question that needed to be answered.. originally, i was going to run the 2x8's the full 16' and fill in with joists that were 8' less three inches.. that was the plan that was set in my mind.. but then i switched to having double joists at the ends.. the first spanning the entire 8 ' and the second inside at 3 inches less.. i like that because it kind of helps to lock in the ends... ahhh.. there was the problem. when i laid out the joist spacing, i forgot that I had switched my plan. so of course, the 8' sheet of plywood extended beyond the intended position.. so, the spacing was still 16 in on center.. and the solution? don't start at the end! I moved the plywood up - it fell very nicely mid-way on two joists.. then cut the second sheet to fill in the voids at both ends.. offset the second course... filled in the voids at either end, and once again, life is good

I sent this pic to my wife and told her that we would be ready to move in by the end of the weekend.. of course, I have been accused of being overly optimistic at times! actually, it would be kind of cool if i could get the walls built.. I can't work this afternoon as I have a school duty to attend to, but maybe I will stick around after that.. and tomorrow is wide open at this point.. we will have to see how motivated I am in the morning

Redoverfarm · March 29, 2014, 02:44:20 PM

Thats what always happens to me when I draw up the plans on a brown paperbag and deviate for what I thought was a better idea. Glad you found a solution. Gingerbread. So easy just use your imagination just make sure the right and left side of your brain are working on the same idea to meet in the middle.

pocono_couple · March 29, 2014, 07:26:40 PM

sounds like a good plan, John... keep both sides of the brain working together!

well.. got done with duty this afternoon and still had some energy left, so i ducked into the cafeteria for some dinner and conversation and then back to the shop... the plan is to build the house in components.. screw it together.. see how it all looks and then take it all apart and take it down to the orchard.. so the back wall is split into three sections, two of them 4 feet and the middle one with the window in it 8 feet. that should make it all manageable with two people. It does use a few extra studs, but that is the trade off. So, I got two sections of the back wall finished before heading home this evening. It is somewhat realistic to think that I can finish the other walls tomorrow because all of the pieces are cut and ready to go... but we will see how I feel in the morning

pocono_couple · March 30, 2014, 01:48:15 PM

Well, it was a productive weekend.. did not get quite as far as I had planned, but that is ok.. The cat woke me up around 4 am this morning, and there was no getting back to sleep.. that is the second day in a row.. so I got up and ended up baking choc. chip cookies to share with the crew at the "job site".. but, of course, there was no crew

just me and the security guy who happened to stop in to check on my progress.. he appreciated the cookies

I got all three sections of the back wall framed and sheathed and one end wall framed.. I looked at the pile of remaining 2x4's.. and then decided to call it a day.. too tired to concentrate.. why push it and risk goofing up or smashing a thumb!

I am pretty pleased with the overall progress. If the kids show up on Wednesday and we are prepared to raise a couple of walls, that will go over pretty well.. good photo opportunity and a wonderful sense of accomplishment - even if they did not build the walls! Time for a nap

pocono_couple · April 02, 2014, 05:16:14 PM

We had a productive day today!

I was looking forward to today since the weekend. There was plenty of student help on hand, and many hands make light work of the walls.. in fact, I did not end up lifting anything! We laid down chalk lines to mark the inside of the walls around the perimeter, and then we got started with the back wall. It is in 3 sections 4 foot - 8 foot - 4 foot. This made it easy to place the window in the middle of that wall. The front wall with be two 8 foot sections, each containing one window.. And, as you can see, the end wall has a window in it, and the near wall will have the door in it.

So, two walls up and two to go. Once all four walls are in place, it will be fun to walk around inside and get a feel for the space. In fact, I already gave two tours today

it just takes a bit of imagination to understand what we have planned at the moment. of course, much of that is subject to change!

April 05, 2014, 05:13:07 PM

Looking in through the front door!

it was another productive morning - aided by the fact that I took in my nailing gun

I was a bit pressed for time because I had bought tickets for my wife's birthday for La Boheme, and the performance was at 12:55 pm. My first opera - it was a bit of a change after listening to Froggy 101 all morning

Things went pretty smoothly - no complications.. my wife was pretty pleased with the outcome.. that is a good thing!

update about the site for the tiny home... my brother in law proposed that we put it in his back yard where there is a pad poured.. i guess that would make things easy .. and would save on the materials for putting in a stone pad.. so we will probably go that route.. run a sub panel from his house to ours.. and share his internet signal

this plan would enable us to get a jump on the construction down there.. perhaps moving everything down as early as next weekend.. and that is a pretty nice idea! maybe we can get down there this week to check it out and make a final decision.

pocono_couple · April 06, 2014, 04:29:16 PM

I measured 3 times before cutting these!

these are the scroll boards for the tiny house. I laid them out during the week and checked them over again this morning before starting .. I am pretty pleased with how they turned out.. now to see how they fit

The back of the house will not get this kind of treatment.. just a plain rake board back there..

we took a trip to the orchard this morning to check out the new proposed site for the house.. it is a concrete pad that is 15 x 16 feet.. just about right! there will be a little pad left over for a picnic table! so it is decided.. I guess I won't need to order stone, and I can take a bunch of 6x6 timbers off of the shopping list. If all goes well, we might get the house moved next weekend.. then we can really get moving! I can't wait..

Redoverfarm · April 06, 2014, 06:17:21 PM

That will look sharp. Seems you have avoided the dreaded foundation issue. Hope things work out with the location being so close to your BIL.

Don_P · April 06, 2014, 07:10:47 PM

Most times that would all depend on which BIL, some neighbors need to be loved from a greater distance than others

Very nice scrollwork. A few angle iron tabs with lag shields into the slab and lags into the floor frame would tie it down well.

Rafters make good geometry or trig problems that have "real" results. You can figure rafter lengths, bonus for deducting 1/2 ridge thickness, then give seat width and ask for drop, then height to support the ridge above the floor... I've wished math had been taught in shop class, I might have paid attention

pocono_couple · April 06, 2014, 08:12:37 PM

Very good points, John and Don... here are the pros.. the pad is at the very back of his yard.. next to a whole bunch of apple trees

he is rarely at home

the apple blossoms will be heavenly for a week or so in May as we crawl into the loft in the evening.. cons... gotta close the windows during spraying! ( not an organic orchard)

so, all in all, it sounds like a good plan. Access to getting to the pad should be very easy so that is a benefit too.

pocono_couple · April 20, 2014, 06:34:48 PM

Last weekend was supposed to be the time for moving the house to its new location, but life got in the way, and we did not do any moving at all. So we set our sights on this weekend, and we were blessed to have wonderful weather and now we are well on our way!

On Thursday after school, I took the 6x6 beams down to the orchard and scoped out the location one last time with a promise to return on Friday morning to get started. I hooked up my trailer on Friday to, once again, find that the lights were not working.. but figured we would be traveling in daylight so I took off anyway.. picked up the first load of plywood and two smaller wall sections at school and then turned towards the orchard.. after unloading, I headed back to school to pick up a second load. I wanted to get as much down there before my brother-in-law showed up with his big trailer to pick up the deck and heavier wall pieces.

We determined that saturday would be the best day for that trip, so my wife and I spliced the 6x6's together and discussed the best placement for the house on the pad.. we stayed over at the orchard with a plan to help deliver some apples the next morning while combining the trip to pick up the deck.. but when we were about to head out out the next morning, we found that the truck needed to pull the trailer would not start! So we all lent a hand with the delivery and then my brother-in-law and I went to school with a recharged battery.. and successfully loaded the deck and walls.. delivered them to the site.. and called it a day.

This morning, my wife and I got an early start, and things went very smoothly.. we squared the deck on the beams and then tied them together with rafter ties.. then I nailed furring strips along the joists so that we could set the foam insulation down between them.

that is my wife with a new can of foam .. we cut the pieces short so that any rain that makes its way below the deck will drain. after the house is dried in, I will fill the voids at each end with spray foam..

another shot of the insulation job in progress...

all of the insulation in place and the first piece of subfloor ready to nail down..

well, we really needed my step daughter to do some dancing, but we could not wait!

and, in no time, we got the walls up and in place.. It has been quite a while since we worked 6 hours on a construction project.. think we will be a bit sore tomorrow, but if I have any energy left over at the end of the school day, my plan is to go down and finish the plywood sheathing..

we have a plum orchard directly behind the house ( like 8 feet away) and we will be looking out at the apples on the hill.. it is a pretty nice spot! ok.. other highlights of the weekend.. we helped sort a few apples, got to drive the fork lift and the case-looks- just-like-a-bobcat

also squeezed in a nice easter dinner with the in-laws.. so, it was a very productive weekend.. now for the grade reports that I have been neglecting.. no big deal.. they are not due till 9 am tomorrow

April 20, 2014, 07:50:19 PM

Nice spot! An orchard makes a great neighbor.

pocono_couple · April 20, 2014, 08:01:54 PM

thanks john! hope i can say the same for the in-laws

sorry - could not resist that one! actually, I should have taken a pic.. around 2 this afternoon, my wife's folks showed up in the mule.. out for a sunday drive and pretty curious to see just what a tiny house looks like!

Redoverfarm · April 20, 2014, 08:19:11 PM

Making great progress Jason. Have you figured out a way to anchor the shed yet? Just a thought if the edges are close to surrounding ground you could use a mobil home anchor. Or in a pinch get four of the twist dog chain anchors and then bolt pallet banding straps to the house & anchor. Better get busy as the winds are blowing on the coast.

pocono_couple · April 25, 2014, 05:06:15 AM

thanks, John. I have yet to figure out an anchoring system. I guess it will be at the ends where I can get down into the ground...

Yesterday was a beautiful day so I set a goal of trying to finish the sheathing - or at least the full sheet parts. Rain is forecast for today and parts of tomorrow ( saturday) so I wanted to get this done so that I could move on to the rafters on sunday.

As is typical, the first sheet took the longest! I forgot how challenging it can be when working alone

But, eventually, I got it in place and nailed.. One of the issues was that the top plate on the door end where I started, seemed to be bowed upward.. It took me a while to figure out that the issue was that the sub floor was not totally flat..

the glue that I put down did not totally compress.. I have read that one of the problems with nail guns, compared with the old fashioned hammer and nail approach, is that the guns won't draw things together effectively like a hammer will.. guess I need to pay closer attention next time!

Once I got into the rhythm, things began to go pretty smoothly..

what a great night for working.. comfortable temps, no bugs, beautiful surroundings..

I need to add some blocking where the plywood lands at the top and then fill in with a small strip.. then on to the rafters.. I can't wait till the roof is on and it is dried in...

Our thinking at this point is that we will instal a small wood stove and just keep in heated when we are there.. and we like the idea of adding a sky light in the loft area.. with a pitch of 12 over 9, i am thinking that the likelihood of having leaking issues will be small. But, those words could come back to haunt me! any thoughts on small woodtoves or skylights are welcome! jt

rich2Vermont · April 25, 2014, 06:10:26 AM

It's looking great, so far. I had a lot of help at that stage; I don't think I could have sheathed entirely by myself. I'm very impressed. Such a great site too!

Just curious, but have you looked into small wood stoves? My original plan included one, but the choices are limited. Other disadvantages are that you'd likely have to get up and feed it at night, and they still take up a lot of living space in a little house. For me, when I added in the cost of insulated stove pipe and fittings, there was just no way my budget would allow it.

Best wishes,
-R