Will your doctor be fined or jailed?

[Sassy]

Obamacare Endgame - Will your doctor be fined or jailed for putting your health first?  So what is happening w/Obamacare?  I thought it had been voted down...

Obamacare Endgame: Doctors Will be Fined or Jailed if they Put Patients First
by Dr. Elaina George

"If Obamacare is completely implemented, doctors will no longer be practicing medicine. They will instead become the drones tasked with deciding who gets the meager healthcare crumbs doled out by the bureaucrats who have the ultimate power over patient life and death. Those who are deemed to have illnesses that require treatments which are not cost effective can expect a one way ticket to a hospice."

"Like so many bills passed by Congress, there was a hidden provision in the Stimulus bill passed in 2009. It spends 1.1 billion dollars to create an important piece of the framework for the healthcare bill called the Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. It is based on the false premise that doctors in consultation with their patients don't have the ability to make the right healthcare choices (see executive summary). The council consists of 15 people appointed by the President."

http://biggovernment.com/egeorge/2010/10/30/obamacare-endgame-doctors-will-be-fined-or-jailed-if-they-put-patients

[peternap]

It hasn't been voted own Sassy, it's being fought in a number of states.
In Va. we passed a law last year that said in essence, we were exempt and just last week won against the Feds in Federal court.

There's no doubt it will be appealed in every state including Va. (Some states like Fla., have lost the first round).

Even then, part of the bill will be upheld and that probably will be another nail in an already secure coffin.

[Pox Eclipse]

Doctors have been drones for decades.  They can only do what the insurance company death panels allow them to do.  I would rather be the victim of government incompetence and indifference, than be deliberately sacrificed on the altar of insurance company greed. 

[bayview]

Doctors have been drones for decades.  They can only do what the insurance company death panels allow them to do.  I would rather be the victim of government incompetence and indifference, than be deliberately sacrificed on the altar of insurance company greed. 

   I agree with you.   I have seen this happen many times.   The patient is elderly and not worth the expense.   "They are old . . .    Just let them die."

   My mother volunteers at a nursing home.   She feels if it wasn't for the family and the volunteers, the staff would basically allow them all to die.   The excuse is that they don't have the money and are understaffed.   I wonder where all the money goes when the patients pay $3-6000 per month for care.

/.

[archimedes]

As a licensed insuarance agent I can tell you from my experience that you have a lot more to fear from the insurance monopolies than you do from any gov't bureaucrat.

The fear mongering about this law seems to have no limits.  The bulk of it (if not all) based on completely false information (i.e. death panels).

[Sassy]

Have any of you read the whole bill?  From what I've read, there's lots of hidden stuff in the 2000+ page bill - that's what scares me.  

I work in a socialized system - the Veterans Administration - I've worked in it for 20+ years...  there is good & there is bad about it.  

There's never enough money.  The bureaucrats keep making more & more levels of administration w/self-important people walking around in lab coats, carrying clipboards, making big money, while those who are actually providing the hands on care of the patients are working w/skeleton crews, barely able to perform the basic care that is necessary.

I've worked up to 22hrs straight in ER due to staffing shortages.  It's not unusual to work 16hr shifts & often w/out a lunch break!  We are told that it is our fault that we didn't take any breaks.  What do we do?  Do we leave the patients uncared for so we can take our breaks?  The nurses care too much to do that - both about the patients & also won't leave their co-workers hanging.  

We are not supposed to eat at the nurse's station - heck, what are we supposed to do?  If the boss isn't around, we eat at the nurse's station - otherwise we don't eat!  There was a time where we couldn't even keep a bottle of water there - unprofessional!  Thank God that got changed.

I've also worked in a nursing home.  Nurses aids are some of the hardest working, underpaid people there are.  I worked myself to death everyday - ran as fast as I could.  There's only so much, emotionally & physically a person can take - I felt myself getting an indifferent attitude due to the extreme demands & got out of nursing home care.  There again - lots of levels of queen bees, not enough worker bees.

I had it out w/the assistant chief of nursing the day after Thanksgiving - we were swamped, I was charge nurse & there was no way we could keep up.  I paged him several times for help - he said we had enough help - 3 nurses to take care of 70+ patients in 8 hrs - how do you do that?  Oh, we did get a couple more nurses at noon...  but he'd come down, look at the screen w/all the names of the patients & rub his chin & then walk out.  

When I told him the problem w/our hospital is too many administrative layers in nursing that won't & don't do any patient care, he was quite offended.  I've been in administration - used to be the nursing supervisor on off-tours (weekends, evenings).  I worked in the ER & also took care of all the problems in the whole hospital!  It used to be, the nursing supervisor was expected to help out in ER & also wherever needed in the hospital.  We now have supervisors that won't even push a gurney!  

So, looks like its just the human condition, whether gov't-socialized or insurance run (also basically socialized) - that people will try to get by w/whatever they can get by with.  Seems that the Golden Rule isn't real important anymore - at least w/political/gov't & corporate greed.  

Unless a person has standards/morals within himself/herself, any outside laws, rules, organization, gov't will degenerate over time to the lowest common denominator - at least if you've read any history, that's what has always happened.  

Sooooo, I don't see anything different w/Obamacare than we already have, but I do fear the unknowns that politicians always throw into the pot - and the Obamacare bill is quite a large pot of unknowns!  

Okay, I'm finished w/my rant  

I guess not totally    The hospital tries to save money by cutting back on auxiliary help like clerks, health & lab techs etc.  (they're a lot less expensive than nurses)  So the RN's have to do everything from answering phones to transporting patients.  I work w/nurses who also work at for-profit & community hospitals - they tell me that their total focus is on patient care - there is lots of auxiliary help to take the load off.

Now, I guess I got off-topic   a bit because this was supposed to be about doctors...  

Our docs are expected to totally follow certain clinical guidelines - in some ways that has improved care but in other ways it has taken away their assessment decisions - whether they think a patient needs something or not, whether they don't agree w/certain treatments - that isn't up to them - if a patient is diagnosed w/diabetes or heart disease, there are clinical guidelines for medications & care - & by-golly, they better follow them or be reprimanded.  The hospital is graded by the % of patients have been placed on the protocol for whatever quideline that has been put in place.  (and also funded, I might add)

And how are these guidelines made?  From what I'm seeing, a lot of medicine is dictated by the pharmaceutical companies.

Anyway...  better stop now, my coffee is wearing off...  

[Ajax]

The link in the OP is nonsense, like 95% of what's been written about the health care bill.

Death panels
Guns for the IRS

It's like a contest to see who can come up with the most crazy stuff.

It's a good bill

[peternap]

Hmmmm. The Census figures came out today and that means all the census workers are unemployed.

Every board I'm on seems to have a sudden influx of Government cheerleaders.

Could it be that the Census Workers were just transferred to the Troll under the bridge project!

[Ajax]

Hmmmm. The Census figures came out today and that means all the census workers are unemployed.

Every board I'm on seems to have a sudden influx of Government cheerleaders.

Could it be that the Census Workers were just transferred to the Troll under the bridge project!

so people with facts are trolls?

[peternap]

Hmmmm. The Census figures came out today and that means all the census workers are unemployed.

Every board I'm on seems to have a sudden influx of Government cheerleaders.

Could it be that the Census Workers were just transferred to the Troll under the bridge project!

so people with facts are trolls?

I didn't see any facts, just the wind blowing!

[Windpower]

"I didn't see any facts, just the wind blowing!"



Hey I resemble that remark      nuk nuk nuk


good one, Peter

[glenn kangiser]

Interesting read from a German inventor.  His father sold his friends out to the Nazis, so he grew to hate him.  He states in translation from German,

"The Communists had learned from history and did not want to leave so many dead bodies lying around at the end like the Nazis so they invented a new subtle killing mechanism, which even the Nazis could not get up and running, free health care.

Thus my mother was fetched not by soldiers or the police, but secretly from an ambulance to her execution. The communists - not  troubled with large intelligence - counted simply that: Each murder is one less class enemy."

Something to look forward to.  Who decides when we have had enough free health care, or if we are economically treatable...... or.... who gets to see if their name is on the secret list....

Glad I don't go to doctors any more than ABSOLUTELY necessary.  

http://wolfhartus.ipage.com/band1/a3.htm

[StinkerBell]

I am currently out of the Health Care Profession. I just no longer want to deal with the mess. It is just too much and not worth my health.

[glenn kangiser]

It's better that way, Stink.... at least I don't have to fear you now...

[StinkerBell]

My skills are still very up to date. muhahahahahahaha

[glenn kangiser]

[Sassy]

I'll be retiring soon - almost retired last July...  I'm being told I need a new body!     Trying an alternative procedure first but have to pay for it out-of-pocket.

Hopefully, after 3 sessions of torture treatment I'll be good as new, if not, I'm being told I need bilat hip & knee replacements. 

But, hey, I told the doc, if I can make it through the treatments, if I'm ever arrested & tortured, I'll be able to handle a pretty high level of pain 

[StinkerBell]

<hug>

[Phssthpok]

Obamacare Endgame - Will your doctor be fined or jailed for putting your health first?  So what is happening w/Obamacare?  I thought it had been voted down...

Obamacare Endgame: Doctors Will be Fined or Jailed if they Put Patients First
by Dr. Elaina George

"If Obamacare is completely implemented, doctors will no longer be practicing medicine. They will instead become the drones tasked with deciding who gets the meager healthcare crumbs doled out by the bureaucrats who have the ultimate power over patient life and death. Those who are deemed to have illnesses that require treatments which are not cost effective can expect a one way ticket to a hospice."

"Like so many bills passed by Congress, there was a hidden provision in the Stimulus bill passed in 2009. It spends 1.1 billion dollars to create an important piece of the framework for the healthcare bill called the Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. It is based on the false premise that doctors in consultation with their patients don't have the ability to make the right healthcare choices (see executive summary). The council consists of 15 people appointed by the President."

http://biggovernment.com/egeorge/2010/10/30/obamacare-endgame-doctors-will-be-fined-or-jailed-if-they-put-patients

Been trying to find this video ever since this thread was started...sorry it took me so long.

[Sassy]

Thanks Phssthpok, that's the stuff I've read & been hearing.  There's lots of medical doctors I know who are talking about getting out or retiring - it's not worth it to them.

That's another reason why they keep giving nurse practitioners more & more leeway in their practices - they're doing a lot of things that was only legal for the physician to perform.

Nurse practitioners (NP) & physicians assistants (PA) don't need as much education - a NP has a masters while a PA doesn't even need a masters or even a bachelors - at least that was true 3-4 years ago. 

The docs I've talked with say it isn't worth it - they don't get paid enough for the responsibility, liability insurance & cost of education, plus the brutal internship/residency they have to go through. 

[texasgun]

I hear alot about doctors "getting out" but I dont see them hanging it up and going to work for Mcdonalds "would you like frys with that order?' People always complain about how mutch they make no mater how big thier salary is. At least with goverment having a say in your healthcare we have some say by our vote, trying voting the president of your insurance company out! Healthcare ran by insurance companies is so overpriced it is outof reach for lots of people and its time to try something differnt. I am not saying the government will be any better but at least it is possible. Insurance companies are a for profit business so do you really think they have your best intrest in mind? 

[Ndrmyr]

The challenge is, that there needs to be an incentive for people to become Doctors at enormous time and cost.  I saw an girl with a BA in english literature with $160,000 of student loans working at a deli counter in a small grocery store.  At this rate, she will never overcome that debt, it will be with her, most likely the remainder of her adult life.  If someone is going to crank up $200 -$400K in educational costs, they need to have some reasonable expectation of adequate compensation to surmount those loans.  If not, in 20 years we will have a serious lack of medical providers at a time when many of us will need it the most.

[peternap]

Thanks Phssthpok, that's the stuff I've read & been hearing.  There's lots of medical doctors I know who are talking about getting out or retiring - it's not worth it to them.

That's another reason why they keep giving nurse practitioners more & more leeway in their practices - they're doing a lot of things that was only legal for the physician to perform.

Nurse practitioners (NP) & physicians assistants (PA) don't need as much education - a NP has a masters while a PA doesn't even need a masters or even a bachelors - at least that was true 3-4 years ago. 

The docs I've talked with say it isn't worth it - they don't get paid enough for the responsibility, liability insurance & cost of education, plus the brutal internship/residency they have to go through. 

At this point Sassy, Virginia has won the court case and we are not subject to Obamacare.
That will certainly be appealed I think. It really depends on what the Republicans do now.

[Windpower]

the health care act is not about providing health care it is an omnibus bill that takes over everything

this is from an  insider that told Lindsay Williams exactly that

A couple of anecdotal stories

My step son lives in Taiwan (teaches English)

he was in the hospital for 4 days from food poisoning

His bill was $35 T dollars (about a half tank of gasoline for a small car)

He has a son -- the hospital bill was IIRC under $100 for 3 weeks of care --which is normal -- he was perfectly healthy -- no complications

Taiwan is not a rich country -- how can they provide care for so cheap

Clearly there is something very messed up with the US health care system

but Obama care will only make it worse IMO

I have other stories from Greece and France

There is only one first world country on earth that does not have some form of government health care

[Windpower]

So am I saying that we need a health care program that works (like maybe Medicare)

yeah I guess so

We can afford it (if we cut off the Pentagon and end the Federal Reserve ) and it will improve the society we live in