Land buying question -- perc test

Madroaster · December 03, 2007, 10:41:44 PM

Hi All,

I'm considering a piece of property that has not been perc tested. None of the adjoining lots have been tested either; the lots have only recently been for sale and never developed before.

Thing is, I don't know much about perc testing, beyond its function and how it happens. Can a perc test be done once the ground is frozen? I'd want a passing test as a condition of sale. If the land were not to perc, are there any reasonable septic system alternatives that aren't super expensive? In my area, a standard system is about 5,000. Something double or triple that isn't an option for us. I don't really want a sawdust and greywater system; while I like both, I've never found convincing information about treating and dealing with greywater.

The soil survey for the area shows a hodgepodge of well-draining and poor-draining soil sprinkled through the area, so it's something I really need to check. Advice?

Thanks,
--Derek

glenn kangiser · December 03, 2007, 10:52:38 PM

I would say make the purchase contingent on getting the perk test approved -- possibly have them provide it. You could be stuck with a piece of land you can't build on. Around here it can vary from lot to lot and anything besides standard will generally make engineer and building.env. health departments eyes light up with dollar signs -- usually
$15,000 to $20,000 or more.

I'd say -- yes - you really need to check before you buy if that is a deal breaker for you.

It was already approved on our property before we bought.

December 03, 2007, 11:15:53 PM

Thanks, Glenn. The 20K figure you mentioned was what I'd envisioned.

Can I do a perc test when the ground is frozen? I'd imagine so since the system will lie beneath the frost line. I don't know much about digging frozen ground, though. Doable without being more expensive? Having to wait for spring could mean losing the lot. That's the way things go, but I'd hate to get caught up on a technicality.

--Derek

glenn kangiser · December 04, 2007, 12:46:14 AM

I don't know about that -- you might ask the health department where you are planning to buy. Some places are near impossible to dig when frozen,

Also -- cold settles into holes so once you dig it -- depending on how cold it is the water - if you have some that is not frozen - may freeze. I'd ask a local septic contractor in the area. It may be they would only do a profile hole and not require the perc test if the soil is good enough.

Madroaster · December 04, 2007, 08:40:28 AM

Thanks for the advice. It's always nice going into something with a little information your pocket. I hate looking like more of a dummy than I have to.

--Derek

December 04, 2007, 09:28:05 AM

You should require the seller to provide the the perc test. If he doesn't want to pay for it have him add it in at closing as a condition of the sale and he can pay for it out of the proceeds. I doubt you could test properly in frozen ground the hole needs to be saturated before the test and would likely be frozen before you finnished. One theng you might do is cover the hole with a piece of plywood or something and some hay while it's soaking.

Scott

FrankInWI · December 04, 2007, 09:47:35 AM

I When I shopped my country land I made the offer contingent on it perking for a conventional septic. It didn't.... I tried to get him to lower the price, and he wouldn't. I bought it anyway........and am glad I did.
I'm near a river and have very high ground water. One small risen area on the lot perked ok for a "at grade mound", a little less tall, complex and expensive than a regular mound system.
The septic guy I had design it and pull the county and state permits was a jerk. When I was ready to build almost four years later I got more referrals and went with another septic guy, saved a lot of money, and am very happy with the work. With permits, design, install, etc. my bill came to about $6, 500

. The jerk was more like $8,500 and he lied to me to pressure me to build sooner, not later

.

Good luck....

Madroaster · December 04, 2007, 10:24:30 AM

I'm really just going to have to talk with some septic guys and the health department. It's a deal breaker for me because it's not going to be the only piece of riverfront around. Impatience is just likely to get me into a mess. If the site won't perc, I don't want it. If it might perc, but I can't find out until spring, then I'll wait for spring (or find a septic guy who can do the test now). If it's still on the market, then great. Otherwise, I'll keep looking.

Once again, thanks for all the advice and comments. It's been a big help.

--Derek

lockman · December 04, 2007, 11:09:13 AM

FWIW, Around here if you have 10 acres or more a perc test is not required for septic.

December 04, 2007, 11:53:56 AM

it's all "relative" I guess. My neighbor was a bet "miffed" when he found out I qualified for ANY type of septic. My neighbors have holding tanks.... now that really sucks!
Sounds like you know what you want and you don't need to buy this piece...more like it out there. My situation was bit unique. A forested area of the township, but surrounded by agriculture. nice forested feel to the immediate area, but not that far from my big city home for now (155 miles)

paul s · December 04, 2007, 06:47:47 PM

it is likely u need a soil test not a perk test most areas examine the soil not many do perks. did mine a few months ago county required four holes 12 inches in dia and 4 feet deep each.

even though many do soil tests often they still call them a perk test but no perk is involved

Madroaster · December 04, 2007, 08:38:25 PM

Checking a health department document, in my area they still do a traditional perc test. They also say that failed soils in a drain field can be replaced with properly draining soil. This seems like a relatively simple and inexpensive potential solution. Have any of you heard of this?

StinkerBell · December 04, 2007, 08:42:52 PM

We did our own septic. We barely passed the perc. There is a few options. We talked to the near by neighbors and asked them how it went for them, got a lot of insight. Ask your neighbors they may be able to offer some tips. Also talk to the inspector for that area, they have a good idea if the area will perc, they also have some good solutions/alternatives.

Redoverfarm · December 04, 2007, 09:42:36 PM

Derek around here They recently require a"certified" contractor to install a septic system. Up until about 10 years ago an owner could do. That is what I did and the next year they changed the regulation. I did mine for about $800. A contractor charges $3,500. Go figure.

Another thing you might check into. They have designate that a 2ac partial is big enough that if the primary system would fail you would have room for another one to be put in. Don't ask me how they came to that conclusion as there is a lot of mountain terrain and sometimes you only have one good site for a septic. In the same regulation they stated that if the lot is less than 2ac then there has to be an area of 10,000 sq ft set aside with no construction to put a back-up field in. To complicate it even more they put a 100ft buffer from the well.

StinkerBell · December 04, 2007, 11:56:58 PM

We have a similar condition for our septic regarding having a back up area for a new field if the primary field fails.. We picked the area next to the primary one. It has trees but we do not need to clear it unless we need to use it. Our property is an acre and we put up a septic that is for a 3 bedroom house. Side Note, if you do not put built in closet in a bedroom it can be called a den, rec room media room, or even a reflection room.