Money as Debt

[glenn kangiser]

I avoid doctors every chance I get and don't take any prescription drugs, except when it is totally unavoidable.  Last time was when some government mosquitoes escaped from Plum Island - Lab 257 gave me West Nile.  (Or at least every symptom you can associate with it.  County wouldn't test for it as they want to say they haven't had any occurrences here.)

[MountainDon]

... help with depression high blood pressure etc .  you might very well take them up on it you might even think it is in your best interest.  BUT really those drugs both the narcotics and the rest of the stuff they have available these days, allergy meds, high blood pressure etc.  well those are hard on the major organs if you take them you will die sooner or maybe later.

tanya, to that I say, I am one of those who has been unfortunately blessed cursed with genes from parents who both had blood pressure and cholesterol issues. I've also inherited some other problems from them, which luckily I'm mostly able to live with, with only occasional Rx drug use.

Background facts, which shaped some of my life choices....

Dad died when he was 60 after years of lousy health, not because of the drugs but because he was foolish and didn't look after himself. He had headaches for years before he saw a doctor and by then his heart had been so over stressed there was little or nothing that could be done. He ended up with an O2 bottle as his best friend.

Mom died at the age of 85 and until the last 6 months had a full life. I don't know how long she was on medications, but it was many years, 20+. However, at age 84+ she was still fit enough to walk the quarter mile to the grocery store, and back, in the dead of a Canadian winter. She lived in her own apartment after finally selling the house her Dad and us kids grew up in at about age 75. Sounds pretty impressive to me. In summer you couldn't keep her home. And she was not a health nut. Shortly after her 85th she had a hip fracture and a replacement, but never fully regained her mobility. She was saddened over her inability to do personal things for herself. She was waiting for a space in a "retirement" facility when she decided she wanted nothing of it and stopped eating. She died on her own terms, the way I'd prefer to go.

Okay,

I remain active. I don't smoke. I avoid foods that are unkind to blood pressure, cholesterol, intestinal health, etc. I always have to get the salt cellar when I forget to place it on the table for guests. July 4th was a highlight day of the summer... I grilled some wonderful porterhouse steaks, first steak in I don't know how long...

No matter what I do, my blood pressure has steadily increased over the years. My cholesterol remains borderline.  To maintain a 75/110 blood pressure I need assistance from drugs. Without them I easily hit 90-100/150+. So my choice is to take "dope" as you so eloquently put it, or have high blood pressure.  Seriously what choice is there?? Say No to meds and "tough it out?" I didn't think those odds were worth playing. By now I'd probably have had a stroke or if lucky a really big coronary and gone out with a kaboom, albeit some prematurely from my perspective.

Or maybe somebody, spurred on by some actuarial bean-counter somewhere,  will round me up because I'm "old" and having too much fun, living off my hard earned money, money that was invested in large US corporations (yes, even oil & gas   ... starting with Esso a way way back in Canada.) and grew and grew, and haul me off to a rehabilitation camp where I'll disappear. (That's a grammatically very poor sentence, but it gets the idea across, I hope...)

And if they can get some folks before they reach social security age well.... a bird in the grave is better than two in the  bush.

That is a totally callous view of another human being's life.

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it just as you are yours. Have a great day.

[glenn kangiser]

Hey Don, have you tried garlic or garlic pills for blood pressure.  My mom suggested it to a friend who wasn't having luck with medications, and it totally brought it under control in a very short time and he doesn't need the meds. I just saw him last week and he's doing great - no more problem.

I didn't get whether that is tanya's view or it is her take on how the population control promoters feel.  There is a faction who wants to see the population about cut in half if I recall correctly.

[MountainDon]

Thanks, Glenn.

The short story is, Yes. I tried garlic. The longer story is...

Way back when the Doc first noticed my pressure seemed to be higher than it was the year before, we did several checks over a couple weeks and it was pretty much the same each time. We got into dietary changes. That put things on hold for a while.

Then there was a increase again. I took to daily monitoring at home just to see if it was higher at the Doc's office than elsewhere... my Mom had a problem with hers being higher when at the Docs. My machine, the free grocery store machine and the doctors were much in sync. There was no mistake, BP was relentlessly rising. I changed jobs to what I perceived as less stressful. No change. Tried garlic pills among a host of other herbs, etc, breathing exercises and so on. Tried everything for at least 60 days to give it a chance. Nothing noticeable.

After leaving the official work world a year ago and just working part time for ourselves, I had my visions of my BP being lower due the removal of work pressures, shattered when a few months after, my BP had only dropped a few points. Nice, but not enough to reduce the dose or quit altogether. A trial small reduction in dosage over a couple months had negative (higher BP) results. Switching back soon had my BP back down.

Some things have genetics working for them, other work against them. I drew a bad lot.  :-/  So who knows what the future will bring. We'll get there some day.    

[glenn-k]

I know  that one -- mine used to go up when the nurse would put the cuff on.

[benevolance]

Don

well omega 3 reduces plaque in arteries and increases circulation...It would only stand to reason that it would lower blood pressure as well

Garlic is not the be all and end all... Several great natural things to try with the blood pressure

[MountainDon]

Omaga-3, like a lot of things probably has a consumption point, beyond which produces no further benefit.  

Since I've been a large consumer of salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel (At least one dinner and four to six lunches a week), plus use a flax seed oil supplement among the vitamin package I take, I'm more than likely at the point where increasing the intake doesn't produce any noticeable further benefit.  

[benevolance]

well you might be right...

Soemtimes you just get a raw deal genetically

[MountainDon]

That's what I think.

[benevolance]

well you might be right...

Soemtimes you just get a raw deal genetically

but you know..Aspirin therapy wors for a lot of people...And there is the mediterranean trick of a couple glases of wine a day to thin the blood

[MountainDon]

Aspirin and it's derivatives is a general no-no for me for allergic reasons (as well as the family of supha drugs... They almost killed me once.)

I've always been a red wine fan and dinner user   and was ahead of the game there.  

And speaking of Mediterraneans; olive oil is the oil/fat of choice.

[StinkerBell]

I keep reading the title as "Monkey as Debt" then  I think, yes a monkey can be expensive.

I really need a vacation.

[glenn-k]

I'm worried about you Stink.  It sounds as though you are thinking very much like I do.   :-/

John is close to losing it also.  

That may not be a good sign. :-?

Maybe you can catch a few Z's during jury duty.

[tanya]

Oh I know full well about "bad" genes.  I have e genetic kidney disorder the docs said would surely kill me when I was a small child, then when I lived they said for sure I would die without this treatment or that treatment, this medicine or that medicine.  Well I am still alive and I haven't been to a doctor for anyting in about 20 years.  I am pretty sure I would be dead if I had lsitened to them though.  Damn viruses and bacteria all around those offices not to mention experimental drugs and incompetent staff.  And I do eat a healthy diet sometimes but mostly I just go on faith and it has got me this far so I am sticking with it.  

[MountainDon]

I guess if that has worked for we'd have to say, Great!  Doctors are not always correct. But sometimes they are.

I seriously believe that I have dodged 4 bullets so far in my life;
1. hypertension and it's many ways of maiming, killing, blinding, etc.  me. Well I haven't cured it but it's under control and has not got any worse with no increase in medications for about 5 years now.

2. a quickly and correctly diagnosed case of Hantavirus (immediate placement on O2 and immediate xfer to the ICU.)

3. a quickly and correctly diagnosed case of sepsis (full body blood infection; one of the worst things that can hit you next to something coronary) (rapid infusion of intravenous anti-biotics and immediate xfer to the ICU again. Same hospital, but different doctors.)

4. a possible bad one. A recurring Odontogenic tumor benign... non spreading to other places in the body, but a total destroyer of bone) in my right mandible; three times over 30 years time. If not for a maxiofacial surgeon who thought an alternative treatment might save the need for radical resection surgery (removal of the tumor and the surrounding bone... in other words, cut out a whole section of jaw bone and toss it away..., followed by multiple reconstructive surgeries)... well he was right. It took 20 months but the tumor shrunk to where a minor day surgery was all that was needed to clean up the bone and sew shut the gum tissue over the holes drilled in my mandible for an three times daily irrigation process.

So I'm not afraid of doctors or modern medicine. I thank them.

[glenn-k]

Thats great Don - they did good for you.

They still scare me though.

[MountainDon]

You do have to keep your eyes wide open....

While in the hospital one time I did catch a nurse carelessly trying to administer drugs for someone else to me in error. I now forget what they were, but it wouldn't have killed me... but I did raise hell over it and never saw that nurse again. It was fortunate I was awake and aware of everything going on.

[glenn-k]

Most of them are pretty good but -- there are occasional slip ups.  Beds full of dead guys don't go over well.

[tanya]

Oh I think my doctor was wonderful I consider him one of my best friends I ever had even though I am still mad about some of the choises he made, and the industry mandates can't be trusted at all.  Getting back on topic I think that the health care industry and the costs associated with the curtent practices and regulations are one of the biggest problems with our current economy and the bigest sucker fish let loose on Social Security.  

[StinkerBell]

My two pennies

If I have some change coming back, great!

For the last ten years have worked at an ER, as a HUC and a EMT. What I have seen and have been told is Doctors legally treat. That means they will in an ER  give you almost every test possible so they are not later sued. Even if the chance is less then one percent that you show the symptoms and the signs of something, they will run a test. I have heard Doc's state to me they will not be on a witness stand answering a lawyers question of why they didn't offer or provide a 35.00 test for said patient.

There is also no expressed promise made that you will be healed to point you were prior to becoming ill. Some how this seems to be lost. People have some unreasonable expectations and this is one of the reasons I quit my job this past June. Yes there are some bad Doctors. I have seen some crazy stuff, a person coming into to the ER for a sore throat and expect service within an hour. A sore throat is generally not an emergency, but our ER's our so over burden with non emergency issues due to laws. The system is broke.

[glenn-k]

You have to understand that government is a pawn of big business and the elite, to wring every penny from the peasants (us)of the working class.  That will make it easier to comprehend.

Look at it this way.  You like most others are probably only making just enough to barely scrape by.  After paying for your housing there is tax on the land, tax on the real estate, tax on your tools to repair your house.  Drill a well, put in a sewer etc, you pay tax on the act of doing it through permit fees and annually via increased property taxes.  

[highlight]Anything you make above your minimum cost of living is scooped up by one government tax scheme or another.[/highlight]

If you drive you pay road repair taxes on each gallon of fuel.  If you work for a living you are taxed annually on your tools.  You usually paid sales tax on them when you bought them.

Most of your Federal Tax goes to pay for past and to create more death and destruction.  http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

The pharmaceutical and health care industry is invested in heavily by the political elite or promoted by politicians who are purchased by the pharmaceutical industry.  

That figure was not anomalous. In 2004, drug makers upped their reported expenditures on lobbyists to $123 million, a record amount for the industry. Of the 1,291 lobbyists who were listed that year as prepresenting pharmaceutical corporations and their trade groups, some 52 percent were former federal officials.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=723

[MountainDon]

I have heard Doc's state to me they will not be on a witness stand answering a lawyers question of why they didn't offer or provide a 35.00 test for said patient.

And I don't blame Doctors for thinking that way when there are trial lawyers like John Edwards around.