Tyvek vs Typar

[rwalter]

I realize that both of these products are very similar but I am just curious if any one has used both and they have any pros or cons. I am leaning on purchasing Typar becuase its about 1/2 the price. So which one would you use.

[peg_688]

We tend to use Typar, it seems tougher to me,, less tear resistant.  It's also sort of gray and not as blinding as the very white Tyvek, sort of gives you snow blindness when your siding a place .   I believe Typar says it can be exposed to the sun longer than Tyvek although covering either up quickly is ussually our goal.    I'd stay away from the cheaper wraps that have lumber yard logos on them , on a remodel we are wrapping up right now , they used that type of wrap , pretty much useless, water had gotten past the siding and gone right thru the wrap , OSB was soaked and moldie , the wrap was counter productive IMHO in that it held water , and stopped any drying that might have other wise taken place in dry weather.   Still not convinced that 30 lbs builders felt isn't better, ya it doesn't breath  :-/but it sure keeps the water out    But then again I still have a wool fishing / hunting coat , not Goretex. HTBH ;)PEG

[glenn-k]

Actually in other discussions Peg, we have found that you are right -the 30 lb felt is usually better- surfactants or dirt can destroy the chemicals on Tyvec and other similar wraps making them stop working as you described on the one..

The felt will get damp and warp allowing drainage.

[rwalter]

Here is an interesting article I found while researching the matter of house wraps.

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/housewraps_feltpaper_weather_penetration_barriers.html

[Okie_Bob]

Excellent article but, very long and detailed. One point, the author never mentioned 30# felt, only 15#. Yet, he still recommends felt and has it on his own home and says if the were to build again he'd still use felt. But, he does do an excellent job of explaining all the ramifications of house wrap, regardless of material used.
Thanks for the link.
Okie Bob

[peg_688]

Jee it's nice when a guy is right    Even if your just a old country carpenter , when Umass agrees with ya .    On a related subject I stumbed on a booklet by Grace Vycor on thier different protective tapes today .  www.graceconstruction.com    and www.graceathome.com .  Nice little how to guide on their products .  Someone who knows how to link it can / should . HTBH   PEG    Edited to add I have been using them for 2 or three years but did learn some stuff that I will put into use on the next job    Even this old carpenter is still TRYING to learn    Thanks Amanda  

[Amanda_931]

Internet Explorer at least will add the :// to something that reads like www.graceconstruction.com  Generally when that's in it shows up as a clickable link.  Even if it does add some stuff when the page is opened.

http://www.graceconstruction.com/portal.html

http://www.graceathome.com/

I'm bad enough at typing that I generally copy and paste URL's when possible.

When you have a page that you want to post a link to open in one window, the forum in another...

select (with left click--the URL turns a different color)  control>c (for copy) then control>v (view, maybe) to put it where you're typing.

At least two other ways to do that in Internet Explorer, but if you can remember c and v and where the control key is, this is the simplest.

(I did preview, just decided to make things clearer)

[PEG688]

  Hi all . I bringing this tread back up as I just spent the past two working days doing a siding repair on a 8 year old custom home .  Build by one of the sort of  (suppost to be ) premier builders in my area .
   Over view is the house has no eave overhangs as per design , siding is 1x6 clear ( very few knots )cedar applied vertically.   No blocking was installed so the blind nails only grip the 1/2 cdx sheeting .  I would assume as per arch plan , no blocking shown  Still should have been blocked  , IMHO .  

   This house has leaked on the south east exposure from day one , the general caulked , re caulked , recaulked until the owner decided they would never fix it   .   Over the past two years I have removed most of that wall exposure , repapered with Typar , the newer stuff  , applied the Grace Vycor buider tape around the window and other problem areas .
   What I have found under the siding has been poor workman ship  >:(in details ranging from , the groove side of the siding heading / leading into the wind direction . (Now vertical siding are limited in water repelency anyway just by the design) , but the tongue leading into the wind should help some what .   The  old Typar design , (not the builder fault as it was what Typar made it ), BUT some of it was thread bare / wornout / thru , in place to long before it was covered , wind blown to pieces  .  Some joints where reversed lapped leading water from above under the paper below  , all windows where set over the paper , even the head of the window , so again water was lead in not out  .

    So I've seen this sort of stuff over and over again .   Our last remodel had the odd / cheap / lumber yard wrap and poor details to boot  .   Grace Vycor has a dandy guide and the a for mentioned tapes that will guide a person who wants to do it right  .   And the "pros   on the two resent jobs have done it so poorly   I though I'd pass on this info .      You can do it if you can read or really, that Vycor book you can just look at the pics  , better than a thousand words really   .

   Older houses either had building felt or nothing at all , without insualtion they did / could dry out . With all our stuff / paper , insulation no drying can take place so keeping outside water out is important . As is proper venting for fans , attic spaces  .  
   Hope this saves someone else the money for some thing better than a siding repair . HTBH  ;)PEG  

[John Raabe]

Good review of problems PEG.

Thinking of the wall as being designed as you would a roof with a drainage plane from the top to the bottom can help. Then consider the siding only as a weather shield for that drainage plane. Water that gets behind the siding needs to be able to flow and get out the bottom. If the siding is wood, an airflow space behind the siding will let it dry out.

Old 30# felt was/is better than thin stuff because it goes up wrinkly enough to form that drainable air/water plane behind the siding.

As PEG points out, thinking about wind direction and weather while you are doing this can make a great deal of difference.

More info here:
http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/walls/drainage_planes.htm

[PEG688]

 Oh BTW The best part, ???I forgot to put in . They had not papered , vip , zero nada , no paper at all for the top 5 to 6 feet . Water got past to siding under the paper and in the window .  

   Of course this spot was 27 feet off the ground , exposed to the worst weather etc .   Have a great day , go build something  :)HTBH, ;)PEG

[fritz]

Interesting thread.    When I read the link to Building science  this caught my eye:

With wood siding, the drainage space is typically intermittent and depends largely on the profile of the siding. Ideally, wood siding should be installed over furring creating a drained (and vented) air space between the drainage plane and wood siding.

So lets say you were planning on using T111 or similar as the siding -- and then a OSB or similar sheathing.  Would it make sense to run 1/4" furring first?  I'm not sure I've ever seen that done (but I confess, I don't get out much   )

PS: I'm a long time lurker and have posted before as a guest, finally decided I ought to "join".  Have the land in Southern Iowa and the plans from John.  

[glenn kangiser]

Glad you saw fit to join the living, Fritz.

From what I have read and seen, I think about a half inch or so would be better with furring strips running vertically over the roofing felt on each stud.  As I remember it was called a screen wall -at the bottom there is some kind of commercial screen strip you can put in to keep out bugs etc.

Here is a PDF - about 26 pages that gets into rather complicated rain screen walls but has some info on simpler ones and the last pages have considerations that can be applied to simple rain screen walls as to whether they are worth it.

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/imquaf/himu/upload/The-Rain-Screen-Wall-System.pdf

[PEG688]

Welcome Fritz.    If I where doing  T-111 , I'd probably not be putting OSB ,or sheeting under it .  I'd be doing it as a single wall const , I'd frame my wall  
 (then if the wall was small enough to handle ) on the deck , run my Typar over the studs , slice out the window opening carefully , set my Vinyl window so the head of the window was under the paper , the sides and bottom on top of the paper , set the sill down on the sill plate nail the bottom , sqr the window frame corner to corner , nail the sides .  Then put the Grace Vycor window tape as per instruction around the window bottom first sides second, head last,  extending the tape so your over lapping , shedding the water out .     Yes the head tape in this case would be on top of the paper , Then I'd apply the T-111 , keeping in mind wind direction / rain . So the lap of the T-111 was over the top , you could if wind driven rain is common in your area run a strip of tape vertically under each T-111 seam .  Then stand up the wall , got friends ??  You could do it all paper , windows , T-111 once you stood up the wall , be more work / harder to keep every thing sqr . etc .   This assumes you can cover top plate to sill plate with one sheet is 9' T-111  avaible in your area . If not use "Z" metal at the joint .  

   If you have gable ends , what I do with T-111 is bump the gable truss , or rafter / framing out flush with the T-111 below and lap the upper T-111 over it by 1- 1/2', do the paper on the gable so it over laps the lower T-111 as well . Or pad out with ripped pieces of T-111 on you gable framing
  
    If you still want to sheet the walls , I do the same thing.   I'd just frame , sheet , stand . Then do the window etc  once it was stood .  

   I think you'd have to be in a very / super exposed area , bluff on a island , beach home on the windy side , to need to do the air space between the sheeting and siding .    

   Hope this helps , long message   But it's all about details  
  HTBH  ;)PEG