off grid lamps: oil vs. kerosene vs. alcohol vs. candle

[cbc58]

anyone have a preference when it comes to these types of lamps to use in a cabin without power?  seems to be many varieties and options.  fuel odor is a concern, as is safety.  anyone research these?  tks

[Dave Sparks]

We liked our Kerosene lamp on our sailboat. It was too hot to use in the tropics where we spent the most time. Really pretty light inside a light teak interior.

[cbc58]

did you have any odor problems with the kerosene lamp ??   

[MountainDon]

anyone have a preference when it comes to these types of lamps to use in a cabin without power?  seems to be many varieties and options.  fuel odor is a concern, as is safety.  anyone research these?  tks

Does this question pertain to lighting a cabin that has no power grid connection and no solar/wind alternative electrical power, or to what is preferred in case of a temporary electrical power outage? 

Recreational, part time use VS full time use?

I ask because I do not like kerosene, candles or other light sources that involve combustion. For emergency use I prefer my stock of battery powered flashlights and lamps. My flashlights use mostly rechargeable cells (known as secondary cells) although some can also use primary  (disposable) alkaline cells instead.  Various projects in Africa have shown that people are healthier when their kerosene lamps are replaced with electrical lights. A small solar system of just a few lights or portable solar charged individual lights are being used quite effectively there.

LED lights use so little energy I would give some serious thought to how I could transport lights or cells/batteries from the city home to the recreational cabin if I did not have solar at the cabin. Newer lithium cells can pack a  lot of energy into small power packs. Well made packs using quality cells are quite safe to use. I do have a small collection of LED lithium cell powered lights, some that I have made myself. But then I have developed a curious attraction to anything that might be called a flashlight. I have too many but my wife understands it is a relatively harmless addiction and could be handy in power outages.

[cbc58]

Mt. Don - asking as an alternative light source instead of grid power or battery powered devices.   Have seen some lamps for sale and can go a couple of different ways for fuel.  Want to have a least a couple on hand and if they work well might wind up using them regularly.  The combustion part is noted.  I grew up in a 235 year old colonial and we would sometimes lose power and use candle lanterns dating back to the late 1700's that came with the house.  Gave you a real appreciation for the early settlers.

[MushCreek]

For good light, Aladdin lamps are hard to beat. They burn kerosene, but also have a mantle. Claimed to be equal to a 60 watt bulb. With practice, kerosene lamps can burn clean- use the right fuel, keep the wicks trimmed, and adjust the height correctly. There's a show we watch called The Pinkertons, and it drives me nuts that all of the lamp chimneys are covered in soot. Folks back in those days knew how to use a kerosene lamp!

I wish power tool manufacturers would make a table lamp that runs off of cordless batteries. I have a Milwaukee M18 light, and with an LED bulb, it will run forever on a charge. I left it on overnight once, and it only used 25% of the battery. I guess I should hack something together for emergency lighting, as I have five M18 batteries. As long as I had them charged ahead of time, I'd be all set for an ice storm.

[Dave Sparks]

For good light, Aladdin lamps are hard to beat. They burn kerosene, but also have a mantle. Claimed to be equal to a 60 watt bulb. With practice, kerosene lamps can burn clean- use the right fuel, keep the wicks trimmed, and adjust the height correctly. There's a show we watch called The Pinkertons, and it drives me nuts that all of the lamp chimneys are covered in soot. Folks back in those days knew how to use a kerosene lamp!

I wish power tool manufacturers would make a table lamp that runs off of cordless batteries. I have a Milwaukee M18 light, and with an LED bulb, it will run forever on a charge. I left it on overnight once, and it only used 25% of the battery. I guess I should hack something together for emergency lighting, as I have five M18 batteries. As long as I had them charged ahead of time, I'd be all set for an ice storm.

Agree with both. Kerosene never bothered me or my wife. You do have to have your wits about you. The Alladdin was the make we had. Just beautiful light for a dinner table. Our boat could hold 14 in the cockpit, 8 at the dinner table and slept 2

[hpinson]

The kerosene lamps, like the Aladdin, scare the snot out of me.  I envision one being knocked over, kerosene everywhere, and a big fire on a cold night.  Currently we use a Coleman gas lantern, and quite dislike it.  Fuel stink and fragile mantles mainly, but the light is quite adequate.

What I've been considering as a winter project is a very small and portable home-made solar generator and battery storage system powering some fixed LED lights.

[MountainDon]

What I've been considering as a winter project is a very small and portable home-made solar generator and battery storage system powering some fixed LED lights.

Perhaps I can answer questions; perhaps not, but I have dabbled a bit in the field of lithium cell powered lights.

[hpinson]

Any suggestions of where to start looking for lithium batteries Don?

[MountainDon]

By lithium batteries I mean the cylindrical lithium-ion type as used by Tesla and many flashlights, in assorted sizes. I do not have any LiFePo4 which are the type I would be most likely be using in a larger scale cabin off grid system.  LiFePo4 are 3.2 volt nominal. The other lithium types are 3.6 or 3.7, nominal.  Four x 3.2 LiFePo4 cells in series make a good 12 volt battery.  Lithium cell based flashlights pretty much all use the 3.6 volt variety. FYI, the 3.6 volt cells are 4.2 volts when fully charged. When the voltage drops to 3.6 much of their capacity has been used. By the time they drop to 3 volts they are not able to deliver much in the way of amps. They can be damaged by discharging to voltages of 2.5, 2.6. There are ways to prevent that by using protected cells or drivers with a low voltage cut off, or both.

Some cells can deliver up to 10-15, even 20 amp discharges and others are limited much smaller, 3, 4, 6 amp rates. The cells with higher discharge abilities are somewhat reduced in total amp capacity. Different cells for different uses. Some have protection circuits built into each cell.

In the USA,  Mountain Electronics,  Illumn and  imrbatteries  I've bought from all three and have bought drivers, MCPCB's, LED's and assorted goodies from mtnelectronics. Very happy with all three.

On a direct from China basis I have bought Samsung and Panasonic cells from Banggood. As well I have bought chargers, flashlights, power packs and assorted goodies from banggood. Shipping can take two weeks or more. Banggood has a US warehouse for some items and pricing can be very good at times.

This plugin USB light could be a useful light. I have two. I use one on this power pack.

FWIW, Xiaimi is one of the better Chinese manufacturers. There is a lot of junk sold out of China. Xiaomi is one of the better and you can tell by handling their items.

I have used Fasttech for some purchases and Gearbest for a few others. You have to watch the shipping charges from some sellers when it comes to lithium cells in particular.

Chinese sellers can be difficult to deal with at times if problems with an order arise, but on the whole I have been happy with the treatment from the three I mentioned. I do not buy large ticket items from any of them though. I use PayPal for the financials as they have been helpful when I did have a dispute.

Stay away from most ebay sellers of lithium cells as many of them sell fake / counterfeit cells.

I hope all my links work. (Looks like a real spammy post, doesn't it....) 

[MountainDon]

This guy in Denmark has great info on cells, chargers, etc. I trust what he has to say. Some good pages on testing cells as well as tear downs of cylindrical cells.  His tests indicate which cells excel at high discharge rates. Cell tests here

[DaveOrr]

Seen quite a few off grid cabins that use propane lighting up here.
You can run fridge, stove and lighting all off a 100# tank and it lasts a long time.

[MountainDon]

Over many years decades I have observed that too. Propane lighting seems to have been more popular in Canada than the US.  Much of the year I don't like the heat that lighting by combustion gives off.

[flyingvan]

    At the turn of the century (last century) there was a big competition between gas and electricity.  A friend's old Victorian house is plumbed with gas lines throughout for lighting.  This competition is what led to the development of mantle lights---as bright or brighter than electric, and far brighter than open flame, which had lit homes for millennia just prior.  Gas had its following---like GMO's and chemtrails today, people were fearful of new technology and electricity was blamed for everything from cancer to miscarriages.   
    Electric lights eventually won out---they were silent.  The gas lights hissed.  Mantles were a chore, too.
    I still wanted to plumb a gas line for a single mantle lantern central to the house for power failures, but it stayed in the 'good idea' pile in favor of getting finished

[kenhill]

I use propane lights at our remote cabin.  I use 40lb tanks as it is easier to handle and snowmachine in.  In the winter, the additional BTUs are welcome.  In the summer, well in Alaska, we do not need the lights.  My sons enjoyed using the tube cutter and flare tool to plumb in the copper.  With 8 lights going and a radiant heater to help bring the cabin up from 0 degrees to room temp, the CO gets up to around 40.  Lamps were purchased at lehmans.com.

[cbc58]

Thanks for the link to Lehmans.  Great store and message on living.  They sell a book called "The Book of Non-electric Lighting" which looks pretty interesting.  Going to request their catalog...

[akwoodchuck]

At various off grid cabins and at moose camp we've always used propane lighting...it's dead reliable and fairly convenient, if a bit noisy...

[old_guy]

As akwoodchuck mentioned, the propane lights are a little noisy.  They are simple, and bright, and the mantles last a loooooong time if not bumped or shaken.  We have 2 of them plumbed in at the cabin which we put in before the power was run, and still use them when the power goes out or when we need the extra brightness.  The reflectors have proved a bit inadequate for the heat, as some discoloration has happened on the nearby surfaces.

We love the lights.

[Dave Sparks]

The kerosene lamps, like the Aladdin, scare the snot out of me.  I envision one being knocked over, kerosene everywhere, and a big fire on a cold night.  Currently we use a Coleman gas lantern, and quite dislike it.  Fuel stink and fragile mantles mainly, but the light is quite adequate.

What I've been considering as a winter project is a very small and portable home-made solar generator and battery storage system powering some fixed LED lights.

The Kerosene lanterns we used were always hung off the coachroof and there was not any fuel smell only the combustion product smell that was barely discernable.
There was not any noise, they survived a couple years at sea. The part that was unforgettable was the beautiful light they gave off.
I have in our home some really nice LED's. I like them alot. The kerosene lamp on the boat was really beautiful.
I would really dislike a coleman so I get your point. My favorite light is the 15 year old 24V German Stecca CFL that powers our yard light!

What I don't get is why you would want to have a generator and batteries if you already have a Utility. Just have a generator unless you have excess money to spend    Maybe your grid is unreliable?