Healthcare bill about to pass

[SardonicSmile]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/18734871;_ylt=AsGskCDeoRdCwGYhUYVSKsH3SpZ4

I'm not a political person, don't have the time. What exactly will this bill do?

[Bob S.]

This bill gives the united states goverment the right to choose which of their citizens have the right to live and which of them should die.
They will stop giving anyone over the age of 70 health care. As Hairy Reed stated they have to accept that they had their turn. And Obama said. Give them a pain pill and send them home.
It will save a lot on Social Security.
Bottom line.

[Pox Eclipse]

This bill will reduce the deficit by $130 billion in ten years.  This bill will make affordable health insurance available to 25 million people who could not get it before.  This bill will prevent your insurance company from dropping you when you get an expensive illness, even though you have paid premiums on time for years.  This bill will prevent insurance companies from excluding people from coverage because of preexisting conditions.  This bill will make insurance cheaper for everyone by creating insurance exchanges where individuals can get group rates.

Bottom line.

[OkieJohn2]

Well said Pox Eclipse.  There is lots of misinformation out there. The insurance companies and the "For Profit" health care segment have spent lots of money buying Republicans and Tv ads.  The cuts in medicare spending have to do with cutting medicare FRAUD. By the way, its ironic that one of the people producing a lot of the anti healthcare reform ads is the same guy who does the "High fructose corn sugar is just as good as real sugar ads" and the "Tanning beds are healty ads"

[SardonicSmile]

This bill gives the united states goverment the right to choose which of their citizens have the right to live and which of them should die.
They will stop giving anyone over the age of 70 health care. As Hairy Reed stated they have to accept that they had their turn. And Obama said. Give them a pain pill and send them home.
It will save a lot on Social Security.
Bottom line.

If you want to word it that way: Keeping yourself alive is YOUR job, not the governments. Noone is required to help you.

From what I've read just about everywhere else, they will only take away free healthcare from financially stable seniors.. and I support that 100%, even if it includes veterans. If a person has the money, make them pay.

[Fred_47460]

As is obvious by the various points of view on this subject, it is as yet un-known exactly how the healthcare bill will effect the state of healthcare in this country. What is fairly certain however, is that the cost of this bill will balloon to epic proportions and add to the pressure leading towards total economic collapse. Remember.....while these fools have been telling us for years that the costs to support the Social Security program will lead to sky high taxes (for those who are still paying them) they have ADDED yet even more "entitlement" programs....the prescription drug program...and now the healthcare program. Our countries debt has risen and IS rising to the point that countries will think themselves fools to continue buying our debt. Out govmnt will need to refinance 2 trillion dollars in debt this fall....and it is quite likely they will find no takers. They are then quite likely to just print 2 trillion dollars to cover the gap. Does anyone have a clue what comes next?

Get your head out of the sand people...the people in Washington (of either party) are NOT your friend! At least you won't be able to say no-one warned you....

[peternap]

As always, Ken says it better:


Liberty Is Finite
By Ken Cuccinelli from the March 2010 issue

"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom
of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those
in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations..."
– James Madison, June 6, 1788
Speech to the Virginia Convention on Ratifying the Constitution

Although spoken more than two centuries ago, Mr. Madison's words to the Virginia Convention have special resonance today in light of the continuing movement by some to nationalize the nation's health care system. While those championing this radical change in our everyday lives may have the best of intentions, the costs of their proposals are not just financial. Rather, much of what has been proposed would eat away at the very liberty that this nation was founded to protect.

Under the guise of improving health care, supporters of health care centralization are proposing to redefine the relationship of citizens to the state. Historically, in the American social compact, government has served as the agent of the people, deriving its sovereignty from the consent of the governed.

With "reformed" health care, the federal government will insert itself into every aspect of a person's life. With the government involved from cradle to grave and at every step along the way, proponents of health care reform would turn the citizen into a mere ward of the state. With the citizen-child now reliant on the government-parent for all aspects of his well-being, the citizen has forever ceded his liberty to the wishes and whims of the federal government.

Regardless of how well intentioned the governmental effort, this enormous loss of liberty is antithetical to America's founding principles.

The limits on federal power in the Constitution and its first ten amendments were put there by our Founding Fathers not just to protect citizens from those who would take our liberties at the point of a gun, but also to prevent the gradual encroachments effected by those in power who claim to be serving the greater good.

The various versions of health care reform that Democrats in Congress have championed over the last year have all contained provisions that are inconsistent with the original understanding and plain text of the Constitution. From an individual mandate requiring citizens to buy "approved" insurance from a private company or face a tax, fine, or jail (literally a tax on simply being alive), to co-opting state governments to mandate the formation of insurance exchanges, to the corrupt Cornhusker Compromise by which we learned what the vote of one senator costs, the proposed legislation explodes the limits of federal power, guts the powers of the states as sovereign entities, and diminishes the fundamental role of citizens.

The entire endeavor is inconsistent with the notion of a limited federal government. Furthermore, the coercion of individual citizens and the co-opting of state legislatures violate the plain text of both the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

Proponents of liberty must use all of the tools the Constitution provides to defend against this onslaught on our liberty. While the champions of health care centralization will tout their benevolent motives and complain about the inefficiencies and technicalities imposed by various constitutional provisions, citizens should remember that those inefficiencies and technicalities were placed there for a reason — they are truly the bulwarks of individual liberty. If we ignore them to allow for the perceived crisis of the moment, they and the freedoms they protect are lost forever.

In seeking to protect the liberties guaranteed by the Constitution, we are vigorously pursuing freedom for our citizens in the face of a government that, no matter how well intentioned, seeks to expand its power at citizens' expense.

While the nation's "economic pie" can be grown through good economic policies, the "liberty pie" is a zero-sum game — it doesn't grow or shrink — and there are only two slices: government power and citizens' liberty. If the current notions of centralized health care are enacted, government's raw power over citizens' lives will increase, and their liberty will be reduced by the same amount.

The bottom line is that fighting the further centralization of health care isn't just about money, it's a fight to preserve liberty, and it's a fight worth having.

For me, I will stand for liberty.

[Woodsrule]

What this gargantuan (over 2000 pages) bill will do is steal 500 billion from Medicare (from the mouth of the President) and "spread the wealth around" (from the mouth of the President) to forty million folks who didn't have health INSURANCE the day before. Never mind that many millions of those folks are illegal aliens who come to America to work, and then send much of their earnings back to their native country. What is will also do is severely affect the efficacy of our health care system. It is not a mystery why Premiers from CANADA come to America to pay for their surgery. Simply put, we have the best doctors, the best teaching hospitals, and the best research facilities in the world. If this ridiculous power grab stands, then my prediction is that many fine doctors and researchers will find more lucrative ways to spend their time.

[NM_Shooter]

Anyone who believes that this bill will reduce our deficit is an absolute (expletive deleted) moron.  

I believe that healthcare needed reform.  This was not the bill to make it happen.  It was pushed through using bought votes, catered to special interests, and stuffed full of pork and promises.

This bill will crush existing insurance companies.  Your employer will probably find it cheaper to pay the fine than to include healthcare in your benefit package.  

Our government will have control over how much a physician or practice may charge for any procedure.  New England Journal of medicine predicts up to 40% of physicians will be leaving practice due to this bill.  On top of that, everyone who wants access to healthcare now has it.  Don't plan on needing access to a doctor or procedure any time soon once this gets rolling.  The line will be long, unless you can afford the premium "boutique" healthcare that folks like Pelosi will have.

The best thing about this bill is that it has pissed off enough of the independents that it will be a long, long time before the liberals have the control that they now have.

Up next... immigration.  If you are going to piss off all the independents, you had better plan on legalizing / importing millions of new voters who can be bought.  

[Pox Eclipse]

The best thing about this bill is that it has pissed off enough of the independents that it will be a long, long time before the liberals have the control that they now have.

You think liberals are in control now?



If the liberal wing of the Democratic party had their way (Kucinich, et al.), there would be single payer universal health care.  They couldn't even get a public option in this bill, fercryinoutloud!

That speaks volumes about what has happened to the Republican Party.  Their standard of conservative purity is now so strict, John McCain is labelled as a RINO.  As they draw the circle tighter and tighter around the most right wing principles, the party will fracture into a circular firing squad, each aiming at the other as "not true conservatives". 

The Democrats will reap the benefits of conservative disarray.

[StinkerBell]

It means we are no longer free people.

[texasgun]

I am glad to see a few supporters of this bill on this fourum. I myself am self employed as is my wife. We are some of the thousands without insurance. It isnt because we dont want it like alot of people would lead you to think, but for the cost we just can not afford it. This bill is not going to be perfect but atleast it is an attempt. The other night there was a senator on tv that said we were rushing into this (maybe so) his answer do another study and then discuss it some more. Talk talk talk mean time nothing gets done. How many insurance companies go broke? I would expect very few. If in my business I offered a product I could charge anything I wanted, raise the price anytime I wanted, and stop giving you the service anytime I was not making a huge profit, I would be rich. Insurance companies do this all of us everyday with no regulations. Will insurance companies be hurt by this I dought it but maybe it will atleast add a little competition. By the way I am a Repubilican and always have been.

[texasgun]

No more about to pass it just did, hopefully it will benefit all of us.

[Pox Eclipse]

I know it will benefit me.  I have COBRA insurance that will run out in July.  I am self employed, and have a history of cancer and bleeding ulcers.  I cannot get individual health insurance at any price because of preexisting conditions.  I don't want free health care; I just want a chance to buy it at a reasonable rate.  This bill will make that possible.

Conservatives tried to make health care reform Obama's "Waterloo".  Instead, it will be their own undoing. They put all their chips on red, and it came up black.  Corporate donors who spent $100 million lobbying against this bill are going to start asking what they got for their money.  This is not Obama's Waterloo, it is the GOP's.  The conservative tsunami that crashed headlong against the bedrock of American values has broken into a million droplets, and is going to retreat back into the sea for a decade or more.

The people have spoken.  The system works.

[NM_Shooter]

Want to bet?

If this was such a great bill, why did the democrats have to buy votes within their own party?

[Pox Eclipse]

Because the Democratic party isn't comprised of Borg-like hive thinkers who all regurgitate the same talking points, and all vote NO! in cadence to the party boss's goose-step.  There is legitimate difference of opinion, and politics still requires give and take.  This is not a weakness. 

We know how to make sausage.  To their detriment, the Republicans have forgotten that recipe.

[peternap]

edited

[eddiescabin]

For all you health care bill supporters, look, anything the Govt gets into/regulates, it F's up... Face it, you workers will gain NOTHING, you will just pay for bums, illegals and others in line for Govt cheese. This WILL cost you $$$

[pagan]

Sardonic,

Do you think they'll take away the free health care for all the members of congress who are also multi-millionaires? I don't...even though they should.


Whatever they say this is going to cost, double it and you'll be looking at a more accurate number. From what I've read, a small minority of patients consume a majority of the care and associated costs. I think it's something around 90% of the costs for Medicare and Medicaid go to 10% of the people covered. We're paying billions of dollars per year keeping extremely unhealthy people alive and these people take no responsibility for their conditions...obesity, heavy drinking and smoking, etc. When I worked at a hospital we'd see them come into the ER for a stubbed toe or a hangnail and demand a surgeon look at them. Some of the Medicaid people would be in the hospital three of four times a week for very minor issues. What most people remedy with some ointment and Band-Aid requires surgical staff at a hospital for them, and why not, it's not like they're paying for any of their care, nor do they have to answer for their decisions.

[archimedes]

There is a lot wrong with this healthcare bill, and I can name you a few dozen things, but virtually every criticism leveld in this thread is factually wrong.  There are way too many factually inaccuracies here to address them all but just a few;

1) Illegal immigrants are explicitly excluded from receiving coverage in this bill.
2) There are no cuts to medicare recipients
3) The overwhelming majority of new coverage will be through private insurance companies not gov't run insurance.
4) The AMA supports this healthcare bill.  How could it possibly cause 40% of doctors to leave the profession?
5) 30+ million new customers for the health insurance industry, how could this possibly be bad for them - evidenced by the 40% increase 
  insurance company stocks just this year alone.

That's just a few.  Not enough time to point them all out. 

But this one is a real gem;

On top of that, everyone who wants access to healthcare now has it. 

What country do you live in?

[pagan]

Illegal immigrants don't need health insurance because they can just waltz into the local hospital, get the care they require, and then walk away without any intention of ever paying their bills.

This looks like just another method of shifting public money into private corporations, which is why the insurance companies spent millions lobbying against a single payer system. Their stocks are rising because they're steps away from getting an influx of billions in U.S. taxpayer money. Wait until the CEOs of insurance companies start getting their bonuses, bet they're going to do really well.

[Txcowrancher]

Here is the bottom line....

The commie/dems actually believe that they have a "right" to a service/product to be PAID FOR by someone else.

what about food, food stamps already exist. I guess as long as someone is hungry then they have a "right" to my garden produce??

I may have an extra bedroom, do they have a "right" to move in?? if not, why not??

the mandate will be declared unconstitutional
the only constitutional way to do it is to raise taxes then give socialized medicine like europe/canada. this way is unconstitutional, but they could not pass that.

do you have a "right" to something free because you need it? thats the question.

Tom

[peternap]

But this one is a real gem;

On top of that, everyone who wants access to healthcare now has it.  

What country do you live in?

I kind of doubt you read the entire bill. But it passed so it really doesn't matter what you think it says.
What Country? Day before yesterday, USA....I'm not sure what Obama is calling the new one.

[NM_Shooter]

BM:

1)  Illegal immigrants brought into the "legal" voting base is next on the agenda.  
2)  I have not checked into medicare...how are those social security cost of living adjustments doing?
3)  Ask the auto execs who took the bailout (especially the ones who got canned) how well the gov't is keeping out of managing their business.  
4)  The AMA sells insurance, and is only a small portion of physicians.  http://www.themedicusfirm.com/pages/medicus-media-survey-reveals-impact-health-reform  did the survey.  Not NEJM as I had previously stated.  The source of the survey does not diminish the significance.
5)  Let's see... the gov't will force insurance companies to take on high risk / high requirement patients.  Their profit margin will plummet, and in order for them to stay in business they will need to take a gov't bailout which puts them under gov't control.  The 30 million people who will be coming into those companies mostly have no means to pay for their coverage.  

I should have said "comprehensive" health care.  Everyone in the US already has access to free care in the ERs for their sniffles.  

Every person I've heard in favor of the health care bill expects that it will personally help them.  I've yet to meet a perfectly healthy, employed and insured person who likes it.  Proponents are "in it for themselves" with no regard to the damage that it will do to America.  

[peternap]

BM:


Every person I've heard in favor of the health care bill expects that it will personally help them.  I've yet to meet a perfectly healthy, employed and insured person who likes it.  Proponents are "in it for themselves" with no regard to the damage that it will do to America.  

That's what got Obama elected in the first place...."Obama's gonna give us something"...well, he did and it didn't include Valsoline.