Garden thread.

[tanya]

Well I have lived inthis house for three years with plenty of space, light etc.  I just always planned to move so I didn't get into it and also this house is freezing cold in winter so I thought they would all freeze out anyway.  This year though I have the hay stacked along the walls that don't have insulation so that is helping keep things warm.  Sort of a primitive straw bale thought put to good use.  I also decided not to move anytime soon.  As much as I would like to move to a warmer weather place, the kids are stuck here and I have all these animals and the grandbaby on the way so my perspective has changed and now that I snowboard too I absolutely love the snow.  I am planning a trip to some warmer weather at my earliest opportunity though.  Since the kids still live nearby they can take over feeding the animals and keeping the house warm while I sneak off for awhile.  In th emeantime I got the seed cataolgs from Johnny's and Territorial seed Co yesterday and I can't believe the price of seeds I think I could get rich just growning seed.  I am for sure saving as much of my own seed as possible this year luckily I did save some over the past several years but I should have been saving a lot more.  Here I have been thinking the trays and flats and soil would be my biggest expense, not so it will definately be the seed.  I am still waiting for my seeds of change catalog and the gurneys too.  There are lots of great ideas in these catalogs and good instructions on how to grow everything too but I am having trouble finding Jasmine and Gardinia plants or seeds neither of the ones I got yesterday have them but I think I remember seeing those in the gurneys. 

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Got a Henry Field's catalog today.  Not one I usually order from, but enjoyable none the less.  I think they had jasmine.  I went to India a few summers ago and the girls all wear these jasmine braids in their hair and it smells just heavenly.  Everywhere we visited, people put jasmine and little pink roses in my hair... it's too bad American girls don't wear flowers in their hair.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

[glenn kangiser]

That brightened things up a bit. 

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

It's too bad a picture can't  capture the way they smelled... it was intoxicating.  The little roses don't look like much, but they had such a sweet smell, and the jasmine was out of this world.  If you turned your head the least little bit, a wave of their perfume would wash all over you.  It was probably a good thing because that day was particularly hot and humid and we were all sweating like race horses!   The huge flower necklaces probably weighed about 5-10 lbs, and they were just tons of blooms sewed together... mostly jasmine, roses, marigolds, and something that looked a little like eucalyptus (might have been a variety of eucalyptus).  There was another type of jasmine that was smaller and orange, and it didn't smell as sweet, but it was really a beautiful flower.  I think when I went to India, I expected the smells of livestock running the city streets and open sewers and tons of curry, but the smell of jasmine everywhere was such a pleasant surprise.  When young girls would walk past us on the street, you could smell the jasmine for a good ten yards after you passed them.  The little bushes the roses grew on were spindly and the leaves were small and few, but the rose smell was really concentrated.  Perhaps it had to do with the dryness of the climate, but they seemed to thrive.  The mangoes were also surreal they were so good.  I've always liked mango, but after trying it in India, the ones that are shipped here just don't even compare to the ones pulled off a tree and sliced on the spot.

[tanya]

Those are lovely pictures.  And thank you for the info on Henry Feilds catalog having hte jasmine.  Gurneys does have the gardinai I got that catalog today.  I love both and my friend had a whole wall of jasmine in her backyard when I visted her last spring it was in full bloom and the scent was really over powering we had to keep the door shut because it literally was to much. We got a bunch more snow last night but today there are rain clouds onthe horizon, now rain mixed with about two feet of snow is no good.  If it holds off until night fall it might be snow again but those dark clouds are scary looking. 

[tanya]

Today I am bringing inthe tables and setting up for planting the spring flats.  I hope to get around to planting the cilantro and some lettuce too.  I am so happy the weather is warm and sunny today. 

[tanya]

OK I got the parsley seedlings transplanted and they have their second set of leaves now so I know they are going to live!!!  Today I am picking up my friend who is going to help me withthis nursery/greenhouse endeavor and I am really excited to start buying seeds and the other supplies.  The sun is shining more and more here too so that is great.  Nice and warm too. 

[Sassy]

Sounds great, Tanya! 

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

I am just trying to keep my indoor plants alive for the moment.  They're starving for sunlight, and I haven't gotten motivated enough to bring my grow light setup up out of the basement yet.  Maybe this weekend.  It  is going to be bitterly cold this Saturday, and I'm dreading it in the worst way... now the forecast is calling for a high of 4 degrees tomorrow!  Haven't made any garden plans for spring, but really can't until I know for sure where we'll be and that we'll have a place to plant, even.

[Sassy]

We're supposed to get snow Sunday...  right now it is sunny, beautiful & 50 degrees outside so I'd better get out there to enjoy it while I can    Gotta trim my roses & plum tree, look for my blueberry bushes - actually they weren't quite bushes yet.  They were under the plastic to keep everything else from freezing but the plastic filled with water & ooks like they might be squashed - I hope not - this would be their second growing season since I planted them - got lots o blossoms last year - only left a few on & got a handful of large, sweet blueberries - this year should be better - if they made it through   

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Oh, I hope they made it. Nothing is quite as good as fresh blueberries.

[Sassy]

I found one - has large leaf or bloom buds on it - pretty sickly looking though    Can't find the other one - the tomatoes totally engulfed it this past summer - I cleaned out the area so hopefully it will show itself...  I love blueberries, too!  And they are so nutritious...

[tanya]

Well my houseguest arrived and we have been getting her settled in over the past couple of days.  My van ran so great on the trip to go get her and she had a LOAD of boxes!!!  Today we start chives and cilantro I am hoping to make small herbs and greens gardens out of the hyper tufa troughs and then sell them to the folks who can't wait to get gardening but can't get anything going outside yet.  Hopefully all will go well the weather is pretty cold here right now but the sun is coming out during hte days and that warms things up nicely.  We ordered a bunch of flats and cell packs to get things going like tomatoes and peppers later in the month.  It is all pretty overwhelming because it is hard to decide how much of everything to order and plant but I think more is better.  And of course we need more of the lights for the seedlings or they will just stretch and fall over and waste the seed.  I have learned this from experience but it isn't easy to convinve people that the plant DO need more light than that which comes through the windows.  And once we start the peppers and warmth loving starts they are not only going to need more light but more heat as well.  I hope spring hurries so fast!!!

[glenn kangiser]

Tanya, did you make the hypertufa troughs from Charmaine Taylor's information?  Can you tell us more about them?  Thanks

[tanya]

I haven't made the hyper tufa troughs yet but I probably will use the info at Charmain Taylor's site when I looked it up that seemed to be the best and clearest instructions my problem is that it is tooooo COLD to work in my basement right now.  I am also thinking I might have to substitute some of the peat moss and perilite to ingredients that are more readily available here I am considering an experiment with wood shavings and pine needles.  And since I think it will work after reading the papercrete sites too, I am brave enough to make the experiment but still to cold.  I am not going in that basement to work at all until it is warmer I do have some light bulbs on my pipes though, trying to thaw out my washing machine!!! 

[glenn kangiser]

Hope it warms up there, Tanya.

Our winter garden has a bit of stuff that isn't froze yet but it may get real cold this week so hard to tell how it will do.



Broccoli is doing decent.



Still have beets and other stuff in various places.  The puppies really trashed a lot of stuff earlier that would have been growing pretty good by now.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Glenn, my hope is that even if we're in a rent house all summer I can get land before winter and get a winter garden in... Not only is it possible to grow veggies all winter in OK, but it is possible to grow all your veggies for winter in the winter in OK.    So ready to move... freezing to death here.  I don't think it ever even hit 10 degrees today.  The dog went out and hiked his leg on the fence and by the time I walked back past, it had frozen into little dog pee icicles.  Gross.   

[glenn kangiser]

Isn't it colder there than here though?  You still get cabbage- broccoli etc to grow in winter there.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

In OK?  Yes, it gets cold, but it doesn't usually stay so cold so long like it does here in WI.  If I build a raised bed and then protect the plants with a sheet of visqueen on the really cold nights, I can grow just about anything but the really tender stuff.  January is the only month that there's much real risk at all... and even then I grew spinach, parsnips, carrots, cabbage, kale, lettuce, endives, garlic, onions, burdock, potatoes, radishes, and so forth.  I planted my tomatoes outdoors by the middle of March.  New potatoes, carrots, onions, cabbages, etc. were usually out by Groundhog Day, if not before.  I'm so wound up about heading home that I'm even enjoying watching the snow fall today!!!  I think it is actually harder to keep stuff from burning up during the month of August than it is to keep stuff from freezing all winter.  My Grandpa used to be meticulous about weeding the tomatoes until they started setting a lot of fruit, and then in July and August, he let the weeds grow up with the tomatoes because he said that they kept the tomato from burning up.  He was right.  Then, at the end of August when it started to get cooler again, he'd get the weeds out before most of them went to seed. 

[cecilia]

I'd like to know what sort of compost systems you folk prefer.

I seem to have heaps of grass and leaves in various spots in the garden, which I cover with black plastic to heat them up. I never seem to get time to turn them over and they just seem to multiply!

I also have two plastic compost bins where we put all our vegie scraps, tea leaves and coffee grinds etc. The problem with these is that when the bin is full the stuff at the top is not composted although the layer at the bottom probably is.

A friend of mine has a huge tumbling compost bin (with a chain gear). He puts the stuff from his full compost bins into the tumbler, adds heaves, small sticks, weeds etc. He gives it about five turns every day and after a fortnight he has fully composted stuff.

I worry about worms.
Worm worry No. 1 is that there are maybe no worms in the tumbler - does that matter?
Worm worry No. 2 is that if there ARE worms in the tumbler, they are maybe going to get cooked as they can't dig themselves down deep in the earth. Our summers here are pretty hot (often around 40C)

Any thoughts on this?
cecilia
www.duckpond-design.com.au/theduckpond

[MountainDon]

When we had garden stuff to compost we used 2 side by side bins I made. I turned the material one bin to the other to keep things mixed. Maybe not as easy as turning a crank but it worked.

As for worms I never gave them a thought, The material did rest pon the ground so they could come and go. An active compost bin/pile produces so much heat from the decaying matter I'd think that would kill off any worms present. An iron stake left inserted in the bin after the fall clearing, chopping and composting was underway got very hot. Steam would ride on a cold day.

[glenn kangiser]

I studied a bit on composting a few years ago when I got 7 truckloads of horse manure from the park.

While not the same as you are doing, you can draw conclusions from it.

Horse manure is the perfect mix of carbon to nitrogen for fast composting.  If you have straw or bedding in your horse manure it will have too much carbon, so nitrogen must be added.  Chicken manure is too high in nitrogen so it will be good added to the excess carbon to bring the reaction back up to ideal.  The bacteria need air, carbon, nitrogen  and water in the proper ratios to quickly convert the material,  so at least weekly turning is recommended, along with enough water to keep the mix slightly damp --- no water dripping out when a handful is squeezed.  It can get too hot making ash or even burning.  Turning and cooling is necessary - maybe add water to cool it down and slow the reaction.  The bacteria die if too hot, as well as worms.  Worms tend to stay to the outside until it cools.

Duck or bird manure could add the needed nitrogen - maybe even commercial fertilizer.  Without turning, alternating layers of greens, manure  and brush could provide air, and the pile could be kept damp.  Compost will decompose on its own eventually although without the air or proper mix of carbon to nitrogen, it can go from aerobic to anaerobic decomposition which is rather nasty, slimy and smelly like sewage.

I put a sprinkler on the fence spraying onto our general compost pile collection, so it gets wet daily in the summer when the drip system is on.  A lazy mans way to do it and while not ideal, it works -seeds sprout and grow around the pile and worms hang out around it.  We throw everything into it - bad vegetables - stalks - some manure and a little commercial nitrogen fertilizer but need more- the pile keeps decomposing and I turn it occasionally with a pitchfork.  We were also bad about piles here and there until I put the sprinkler there and we started throwing it all under it.  Note that the sprinkler is just one small 180 degree drip irrigation sprinkler running off of an 1/8" drip line.  It covers about a 5'x5' area -- or in your case - maybe 2 or 3 square meters I think.

Note that chips - excess carbon etc. spread on your garden without the addition of nitrogen such as commercial fertilizer or bird manure, will rob your plants of nitrogen slowing growth.  I guess that may be why it works well as a mulch between rows.

Horse manure done properly will turn to soil in about 4 to 6 weeks.  Left in a pile will take a year or more.

I hope this is of some use to you.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Here's our compost method; it is truly the lazy man's way to do things.  We put all our compost and scraps and stuff in a chicken wire bin.  If we think about it, we turn it.  If it starts stinking, we turn it and pile some leaves or straw or grass clippings on it.  Otherwise, we leave it alone.  We empty it twice a year in the fall and the spring.  If there is stuff that isn't composted well, we just scrape it off to the side and start the new pile with it once we've gotten all the good stuff out.  In Oklahoma, it was better to keep two piles, like Don mentioned... because then we had chicken manure to deal with, too, and composted straw, etc. and more weeds, etc. from the garden.  In addition, we built our raised beds with straw bales which gradually compost.  When they start falling apart, we just go ahead and bust the bales and stir the decomposed straw into the soil.  The worms seem happy and healthy...