hows this for instant house?

[Jens]

Take two 10 by 10 by 20 freight containers, stick weld them together, cut out door and window openings on exterior, then archways interior, add interior walls, etc...they can usually be had for a few grand a piece, delivered.  Then over the darn things with dirt.  POOF!  a house!

[glenn kangiser]

You're a bit like me, Jens.  Always wanting to put things in the ground and cover them with dirt.

I would think the freight containers would make a better underground shop.  Most changes would require welding skills which only a few of us have.  A shop will many times have a welder and torch.

That said though I am not one to discourage anyone who would want to make a house or shelter in this manner.  I would suggest watching engineering for earth cover weight and drainage though.  Something would have to be done to keep water from collecting on the flat roof's.  Possibly a wood shed roof built on top under the dirt.

[John Raabe]

A house site I worked on a few years ago had a condemned shop that was built over two buried shipping containers. The previous owners had brought in the containers, set them side by side in a hole in the ground and then covered it all with dirt.

Then they built a garage/workshop on top of this and cut a hole in the floor slab to get access to the containers below. This access hatch was concealed because the containers were being used to grow "medicinal plants"  . They had big grow lights and a rather elaborate ventilation system.

The first crop was just about ready when they were busted and the property was sold at auction.

By the time I got there the container walls were bowed in about 3' on each side and the roof about the same. The owner is still trying to work with the building inspector to try and find a way they can agree on to stabilize this hole in the ground and allow work to be done on the cracked foundation and crooked shop above.

Bottom line — shipping containers are not designed to support anything but minimal forces on their sides and tops.

[glenn kangiser]

Another thing about that is that the steel doesn't always give much indication that it is about to fail - then it's too late.  That's where the engineers come in - actually before that happens.  

I was a bit amazed at what can be done with wood when I first learned about the engineered sizes of post and beams to support the weight of my soil roof.  Thanks to the engineer who did the designs in the Underground House book for Mike.  Ryan B also posted some information on this board that is helpful regarding column strengths and other beginning engineering info.  He does other cool stuff - designs ski-lifts.  It's great that he pops in once in a while.

Possibly the new owner would have better luck coming to an agreement with the current inspector if they crawled down into the containers and sampled some of the previous owners crop  No - I don't do that-- just thought it might mellow the inspector out a little

[John Raabe]

By the time I got underground to check it out the Sheriff's office had all samples cleaned out.

But can't you just see these three guys sitting around smoking pot one night and they come up with the idea? — "Hey man, we'll just bury those suckers in the ground some night."  :-/

They actually did do it all in one night with a bull dozer and big arc lights - in fact that is when the neighbor who eventually turned them in started to notice the weirdness.

A mind is a terrible thing to lose. Too bad too, because they are probably still in jail - mostly for their stupidity.  :'(

[Amanda_931]

some acquaintances were going to use the shipping container they moved their belongings from California in for a tornado shelter--half-buried in the side of a hill.

If you were to run a search using shipping container house (no quote marks) in the blank, you would find a bunch of links, a fair number of them pretty interesting.

Not too many underground, though.  Probably for the reasons Glen mentioned.

The fab/prefab link has pictures and drawings that people have sent in from around the world.  Lot-ek would be delighted to do the work for you.  Treehugger and the the archpaper give you overviews.

http://www.archpaper.com/feature_articles/shipping_news.html

http://www.containerhouse.com/ch00002.htm

http://www.lot-ek.com/main.htm

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01/shipping_contai.php

http://www.fabprefab.com/fabfiles/containerbayhome.htm

[hobbiest]

I'll take a look at those links in a sec...My idea was more of a Hobbit hole type, where most of the walls are actually exposed, and there is dirt on the roof.  It all evolved from an idea of a friend of mine.  If I were to do a shipping container house, it would prolly be more like, 8 of them, in a square formation, with one on end at each corner.  Kind of a castle type building.  I would do all of the welding, of course Glenn, not that you already knew, but I have been welding for years.  Custom fab, hot rods, bikes, commercial and residential, gas, mig tig, and arc baby.  Honestly, it is one of those things that I think anybody could do, if they just had the drive.

[Amanda_931]

That would be cute--with a nice courtyard in the center.

And maybe stained glass windows in the towers.

[glenn-k]

Honestly, it is one of those things that I think anybody could do, if they just had the drive.

Drive may be the key. Some people seem to put up a mental block for themselves but can overcome it.  Some don't get it - never will, but that may apply to many things they do.  They are not the type you will find on this forum, because the thought hasn't entered their mind that they could be here and maybe learn to do something to help themselves aquire a new skill.  Success may depend on taking a course- getting a friend to help get you started then study, do and improve yourself after that.  When I started welding my boss told me "Do it, weld it- look at it, improve the next one.  You know what it should look like.  Make it look that way.  You are your own best inspector."  I took his advice- study and apply proper techniques and vary procedures as necessary to make the molten puddle stay where I want it to.  (Most of the time).

[kc0bus]

  This post sparked my imagination like no other. You don't have to weld the containers together, one could simply bolt them together and not loose the portable benifit to them like you would if you were to weld them together. Even if you were to weld them together, welding is pretty much childs play. Welding is both easy to learn and easy to teach as well. Let's not give ourselves a mental block over welding.

 As far as covering these containers with earth goes: I've seen pictures of these all-steel containers stacked 9+ units high. Surely a few feet of dirt would weigh less than these all-steel monoliths loaded down with heavy cargo one on top of another would. We're talking thick, heavy guage steel here folks- not wood. A few feet of earth would be like nothing to these things!

  Maybe this forum could host a contest to see who could design a house using two 20' containers and a house using two 40' containers. Now that would be something!

[glenn-k]

John's postings above indicate it was tried and failed in at least one place.

I used to haul containers once in a while, and as I  remember they were always picked up by special giant lifts and fastened by their frames.  

I also have seen them stacked high at the terminals, but possibly the strong part of them is their frame.

A 8'x40' foot container has 320 square feet of floor space.  Most trucks can legal 45000 or so.  This amounts to about 140 lbs per square foot of floor space.  2 feet of compacted dirt and a foot of water weigh 450 lbs per square foot appx.  Frames may handle it.  Will the skin?

Here's a link to someone who's done an above ground one.

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam17/At_The_Edge.html

[hobbiest]

Even if you were to weld them together, welding is pretty much childs play. Welding is both easy to learn and easy to teach as well. Let's not give ourselves a mental block over welding.

Welding is easy.  Welding well takes talent, most of which comes from experience, some of which comes from shear talent.  Try gas welding 22ga sheet metal, or learning TIG on same gauge aluminum, when you have to be upside down to do so.  Then tell me how much it is like childs play.
      The mental block is just what I am trying to say is the most difficult part.  As with any process that someone has never tried before, some people will imediately get it, some will not.  The biggest part to this, in my mind, is not giving yourself limitations.  If you know you can do anything, you can.  
       As for them supporting dirt, I did not realize that dirt was that heavy, though I did not think I had underestimated it.  A rafter system could be devised, but you might as well just build it in the conventional manner then.  A sod roof on the other hand, with only a few inches of soil, and vegitation...
        Thanks for the link Glenn.  Cool stuff.

[glenn-k]

Some can weld -some think they can weld.

I know guys who have been welding for 30 years and still can't weld.

In structural welding you had better be able to weld for real because you are not going to fool many building or special inspectors.  The tests you have to pass generally eliminate most of those who think they can weld.  The ones who get by because someone set up their welder for them for the test usually are failed by the field inspector if they can't continue to produce a certified quality weld.

Granted, most can be taught to produce certified quality structural welds with enough training.  Some still never will make it.

Soil weights can be lower -maybe 100 lbs per cu foot or less but just in case of dense soil, I figure for 150.

Here is a slightly messed up picture of my shop roof garden with about 6 inches of soil and drip irrigation on it.  Not a container but similar idea- lower support strength requires reduced loading.  This is over 2 boat docks ahead and structural composite steel deck on the right-  supposedly it looks like a little mountain-- what an imagination, eh



I don't get upset when people say welding is child's play--I like easy stuff - and it is easy for some.   I just know that only about 1 out of 10 or less who say they can weld can work for me on my jobs.

Anybody can make sparks.
  

[kc0bus]

Probably what I should have said is that welding is easy to learn but difficult to master.  

[kc0bus]

  At the very least, I'm thinking that one of these shipping containers would make a very good tornado/hurricane/terrorists-biological-chemical-dirty-bomb-fall-out-shelter. Here in the midwest, a seperate tornado shelter of some kind is a necessity for someone who doesn't have a concrete basement!
 If the top skin can't hold that much, then one could always just berm it instead, you don't have to completely cover it with earth, and it would still serve the function just fine.
 Other uses I can think of include: a storage shed, work-shop, temporary shelter while you build your main house, garage, get away cabin, studio, etc...

Here's some interesting pictures of a few already converted:

http://www.chuckhouses.com/images/HomeImage.jpg

http://www.chuckhouses.com/images/Chuckhouse_20Foot.jpg

http://www.chuckhouses.com/images/Chuckhouse_40Foot.jpg

http://www.chuckhouses.com/images/HomeImage2.jpg

http://instantcottages.com/chuckhouse/images/CH%20with%20Roof.gif

[hobbiest]

http://fabprefab.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=894032959b2cc728a8bf4ec5fc2b193b

Check this out.  A forum just for shipping container houses!  sorry if this is out of bounds listing this link here, John, but I just can't keep this all to myself!

[glenn-k]

hobbiest, you seem to have found the solution to your own questions.  Here is a link to the information about how to make these things support earth cover safely.  Note:  I read over the information provided and the person providing the information seems to know what he's talking about as far as rail road ties or concrete reinforcing the roof, but I didn't find any qualifications listed, so use at your own risk and check deeper into it.

http://www.undergroundcontainer.com/

Note:  John doesn't mind useful information being posted here-- who knows -maybe someone looking at it will want some of his plans or books--  Books ordered through the Amazon book link from this site help to support all this fine free information.

http://www.countryplans.com/books.html

Use the Amazon link at the bottom of the page to search for other titles.

[jraabe]

I love the quote from Glenn...

"Anybody can make sparks."

I know he was talking about welding (something I'm proud to say I know absolutely nothing about!)

But, somehow the phrase has a universal ring to it.

John

PS - Anyone can feel free to post on any topic related to working on your own building. This site is about getting involved, learning and expressing your life through building — it isn't just about selling my plans. After all, this is a big topic and I am only one lazy person of limited experience and talent.

[glenn-k]

I guess the next question is "Can I handle it if those sparks actually develop into a fire?"  :-/

I actually made quite a few today-real ones- repairing a steel truss joist girder in place about 25 feet -in the air - doing repairs on the new Lowe's in Cotati, CA.

I had to pay extra for a motel with DSL wireless -- is this deductible  - But of course.  Everything I do is business related.

[glenn kangiser]

A combination of things here - speaking of welding - our project for the last few days-

I took this picture with my phone camera and e-mailed it directly from my phone from  the basket I was standing in at the top of my crane about 30 feet in the air to my home computer.  A great way to send pictures of your job or building problems to someone who can solve them.  

Now time to get Daddymem excited -  Wastewater management facility - Fresno Metro Area.  My son -(in the other lift) and I were welding the plates that the beams bolt/weld to on the concrete tilt up walls - about 25' elevation average.

Another point from this photo-- make sure if you put things in concrete - anchors - plates etc. that you double and triple check their locations.  The concrete contractor here didn't and now has several very costly repairs to make.

Unseen is the PITA special welding inspector - know the laws better than him so that when he gives you a bad time you can make a big scene and threaten to walk off the job and get immediate results from the job foreman and city officials who want you there more than they want him.  Contrary to what welding inspectors want you to believe, there are other ways to keep welding certifications current besides the official AWS stamp wielded by the special inspector.  I just love it when I'm right.  I try not to make a big scene if I may be wrong-- I hate to grovel. :-/

[glenn kangiser]

Speaking of instant houses,  try cardboard.  Why should bums be the only innovative home builders

http://www.housesofthefuture.com.au/hof_houses04.html

Even makes its own water.

[DavidLeBlanc]

There was a project in Seattle a few years back to make tiny "cottages" for homeless people. Basically one room with a loft over, they were made from cardboard and, IIRC, were expected to have a 20 year useful life. The idea was that kind people would put these up in their back yards and the resident would use the benefactor's bathroom facilities (Or maybe the idea was that some number of these would surround a utility core cookhouse/bathouse arrangement).

At least one prototype "cottage" was built...

Never did hear what became of the project...

[Robert_Flowers]

How about a instant concrete house
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050815/concrete.html?source=msn_cml_news

[Amanda_931]

I've seen pictures of ferrocement put onto an inflatable dome, but this is different.  

No reinforcement?

Interesting to see if it makes it to market.

[glenn kangiser]

IKEA anyone?  http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/02/ikea_boklok_fla_1.php