Steel "I "beams

[PEG688]

So we bat around ideas here , about this or that ,   vent , beam , siding ,etc some advice is good some bad , some taken,  some "run around" as it seems to hard , to simple , name your distractor.  


Anyway heres the next lil project ,

house from driveway below , steep drive , small turn around at the top for big concrete ,  concrete pump truck etc


 

three steel beams ,



one 18' 9" , the other two 15' plus . 3/8" x 10" .


They go where this existing exterior wall is ,







the joist have to be cut out,  so the beam goes up into the joist space , a flush ceiling when we are done .




Oh BTW all the beams get 4x8 's , both sides , thru bolted into the "I" beam to attach the floor joist to once the beam is up in place.

Another lil thing is they get gusseted together at the joints and all three have to be lifted at once ,  with the 4x8 attached  

 one 51 foot long heavy asre beam . Sounds like fun eh

Oh ya and this interior bearing wall comes out as well and  a 3 1/2" x 11" x 16 ' + LVL goes up again as a flush beam .



 Simple eh.  

[glenn kangiser]

I wonder if we can let a carpenter do an ironworkers job. :-?

Great project, PEG.  Just the kind I dread.  A retrofit remodel.  One thing about it -- it will probably take twice as long as the estimator figured it would.  Easy as pie - just set those little beams up there and attach the wood.  Simple, eh?

Got a plan yet? :-?

[MountainDon]

All I have to say right now is I'll be watching with great interest. That's a whole lot of weight to be put into place. Hope there'll be photos.

[PEG688]

Due to some compliction in a few joist where the beam connect we have decided the whole works goes up at once like I said .

The ever developing plan is to hand truck on each end the beams down along the wall , then to temp beam and post the exterior deck / second floor load. We'll build level / flat cribs about saw horse height to bolt the beams together and attach the 4x8's , then attach 2 x6's vertically on either side of the beam , which BTW will be assemble directly below it "landing spot" so it can be jacked straight up into place with a series / group of bottle jacks . The vertical 2 x6's will help "balance "/ guide the beam up and temp "cribs" will be put in place as it goes up in the advent of  a jack slipping , tipping , etc.

They'll be way more brain power than man power as with this much weight man power is to little to late if it's needed.

We'll see how it goes and there MTL will be photo's . Unless of course I get to involved in the process of doing and forget.  

Cost plus job , one of those if you bid it , it would cost to much . These type jobs seem to work there way out , but seeing all that for bid purposes is pretty "gray"

Home owner is a long time friend of the boss , they where A-6 flying buddies as LTJG's , back in the good ole rice paddy bombing days  ;  

[glenn kangiser]

Short pipes on concrete work as rollers if it's clean.  I think I might put some chain hoists up in the floor joists overhead to get it most of the way up then switch to jacks.  

Or - poke a hole in the floor overhead if possible and use the hoists to get it clear up from on top the floor above.

[PEG688]

Only part of the area is concrete we will have a couple of pipes for rollling then, solid Red Oak hardwood floors above , no holes will be made thru the floors , if they where carpet that might have been a player.  

[glenn kangiser]

How about the chain hoist under the floor to get it most the way up?  It would get it up to where jacking would not be too bad - Harbor Freight has great little chain hoists very cheap - I have used them several times.

[PEG688]

What would we attach it to? I wouldn'y trust bolts only to hold it.

We'll either rent a few more jacks or just buy them , the boss is checking the $$ on which way he wants to go.

We'll use 4 wall jacks as well I've put a bunch of wood beams up using them.

So it will be a combo effort . All done safely.

We had , before the discovery of the whole 51 feet needing to go all at once , thought about a posi track , sort of  a bobcatie front end loaded on rubber tracks , we will be using it to demo the old exterior slab when the time comes .




It has a varity of attachments for different jobs , joy stick operator  no floor peddled suppose to be  avery smooth machine , unlike a bobcat. It just fits under the GLB holding up the 2nd floor wall and deck load  

[glenn kangiser]

Just kicking out ideas as I don't know all you're up against, but floor joists would be out as you are removing them.  That would leave a beam across your temporary shoring or extra support set up for the lift.

I usually figure the weight to be supported divided by the number of hoists/pic points - and wood at about 1000 psi fiber stress - steel bolts at around 50000 psi tensile and kind of rule of thumb calc it with a safety factor to keep from having problems.  /After that I satrt carefully and watch -- but you are familiar with all of that.  

Sounds like you have some pretty good ideas already.  Do you have a weight or pounds per foot for the beam?

Machines are always nice if you can figure out a way to do them.

[glenn kangiser]

ASV's are cool --- until the undercarriage wears out -- then get out the Vaseline.  

That actually applies to them all -- what do you mean - Bobcats are not smooth --- I could scratch my dogs back with mine -- if I had a dog.

You may be able to rig a pole on the front of that for lifting with -- some sort of boom with a hook.  I did a pipe with a chain brace back to the bucket one time.

I know you will figure a good way out.

[PEG688]

 Do you have a weight or pounds per foot for the beam?

800lbs on the 18 footer, naked , the 4x8's will add 200 lbs or so roughly, to each I beam. Fun , fun , fun , eh! Like I said man power is to punny to be much of a player on this one, to heavy!

[glenn kangiser]

Yup -- once they get so big it's all brain power, rigging  and machines of one sort or another.

[peg_688]

Cut out joist for LVL ,



Note the little "dap" for the hanger to seat in. No bump / lump / hump in the cieling that way.

LVL in place , hangers on.





 Temp beams in place  ,




You can see the steel beams in the bottom of the photo along side the wall.  Now if the bolts come in tomorrow   we may get some steel in the air.  My bet is on Wed. on the bolts

[MountainDon]

How special are the bolts, Paul?

[glenn-k]

Maybe A325 structural?

Good progress on a rough project.  Seems there are always a ton of extra things or problems to deal with on a retrofit.

[PEG688]

A307's IIRC not "odd" at all the lenghts where the issue , some real short  1 1/2" ones and some longish ones . Ordered them last Monday "thinking" they'd just be coming out of the Seattle area, apperantaly they are coming out of the  Philly area

[glenn kangiser]

A307's are just the structural grade of a soft bolt.  Home Depot has even had some down here.  Probably your suppliers source is out of town and the local other suppliers were not dealt with.  Also Fastenal who is in nearly all major towns stocks them, although length problems could make an out of town order necessary.

[PEG688]

Well Yanno theres always a storey   When I called Butch (my local supplier) I said 'I don't need Galv. bolts." Come to find out , today when I picked up the bolts THEY HAD all  the bolts I needed in stock , just in galv bolts . Nuttins ever simple is it   Or some time just a little TMI can goof up the whole mess  

 

 

 

Tomorrow we should be ready to jack that bad boy up  

 

[glenn kangiser]

Wouldn't you know it.

Looks good, PEG.  Now for the fun.

[PEG688]

  Another interesting "Murphy" thing , the thru bolts that hold the two wood beams to the I beam , are layed out 32 " OC , figger the odds of where the steel guy started to pull his 32" OC pattern <   YUP  > every bolt falls right on the existing floor joist   so we routed out a "pocket hole " so the bolt head and the nut will be recessed into the 4x8's .  We'll cut off any excess bolt once the nuts are on as well.

  Good thing we checked or we'd have had that big beam up in the  air and in the way when we would have  had to re-cut the floor joists to clear the bolts (head and nut).  

[glenn kangiser]

Could you flip it end for end. :-?

Just yanking your chain.  I've been there on this stuff.  Wouldn't be done even if it could now.

[PEG688]

Actually they can not be end for ended, the outer/ shorter two beams are slightly different in length,  so swapping ends would put the bearing points outside the new / extended interior walls .  Wasn't that big a deal to plunge rout a pocket for the washer and bolt head & nut into the beam , I had it there( plunge router)  to rout out the back of the beam where the two , well 4 steel gussets are , (one each side ) to splice the beams together.

[glenn kangiser]

As always -- you have it under control.

[PEG688]

As always -- you have it under control.

Or so it appears   Some days I wonder

[PEG688]

Cutting out that old rim type joist , althought it really wasn't a true rim joist , they did it sort of like it was . So instead of just pressure blocking that knocks out pretty easy with a sledge we had to cut that "rim" joist into pieces , well lets just say it was PITA getting the needed material out of the way  

 

We used the beam as a sort of staging to cut the joist out , a good 2 fer  

 

  The 2x4's on either side guided and helped stablize the beam as we jacked it up, we made sure the tops of the 2x4's where inside the joist cut end so we wouldn't hang up on the joist ends , that worked very well 8-)

 

The walls jack where "back up " and held the beam up when we changed to longer post off the bottle jacks , 4 ea. 20 ton did the lifting. 5 1/2" per jack stroke / full extention, so it was a slow go, and we used lots of 4x4's as we had to add length  each time.

New posts where swapped out one at a time .


There she is all snuggled in her  new home  




Tomorrow we'll check it out / tune it up , check for any low joist that we'll taper the bottoms on to "fair in " the new ceiling, no big bumps , yanno

 Took about 4 hours with 4 guys plus the boss who ran down a some  more 4x4's and kept the wall jacks snug up against the beam , etc,  etc . Once we got it in place , [highlight]didn't leave you a joke line there Glenn [/highlight], we cut 4 ea. 4x6's,  banged those in and left the jacks and wall jacks in place for the night.

So now where pretty much into a "normal " remodel mode .

The steel work is pretty much behind us .

We had one 4x4 tip off a jack and hit the new guy right in the forehead , [highlight]no blood , no foul[/highlight] , I'm not sure what they where doing , messing with the wall jack , I think, and the one bottle jack post floated free and fell. Garth's a ex USN AME,  worked on Prowlers like I did , in fact he came to my 1st squardon right after I had left so we know a few common people from back in 1980   Small navy when you get into the avaition side and common aircraft even narrows that down some what.

So another riveting thread comes to a close  

Good luck on your next project, PEG