Log versus Stick built - NE1 know?

[rayn]

When I first started looking into cabins/little houses,  I dismissed logs since I read in more than one source that logs wind up more expensive.

Then I realized that "finished" logs, like the 8x6 D logs, are easier to work with.  Along with the benefit of having your outside wall, inside wall, and insulation via thermal mall;  it would seem to be less labor intensive.

The last price quote I got for finished logs is $2.40 a linear foot.  Since where talking small squarish structures in this forum,  has anyone further investigated logs versus dimensional lumber for a little house?

[Amanda_931]

Got wood on your property? Up to peeling a bunch of logs?

Got a inexpensive source of (new, untreated) railroad ties?

Landscape screws are good.

I've got a small VERTICAL log building.  Ahem, still unfinished.  Dan Beard mentions them in the shacks and shanties book--picture there looks like a bank.

Logs are VERY heavy, might have to beef up your structure.  Especially if you put them up when they're still green.  And then they shrink.  But they sure do look good.

[JeffnTN]

In order to answer your question I will need more info.

Please answer at least some of the following:

What are you asking, by the way?

Which is cheaper?  

Which is easier to build?  

Which is easier to insulate?

Which may have lower labor/out of pocket maintenance costs  down the road?

I gave a few suggestions as to what you should clarify and consider before you commit to a building design, but I decided to go with John`s  20x30  1 1/2 (added two ft to the length) with the 12x18 (added two feet to that also) addition from  the enchilada plan set..  Framed it with 2x6x10' spruce (best option here in TN) with a stick built 12/12 rafter system framed with 2x10 SYP (16OC) .  Put a metal roof on with hand hewn white pine 2x12  log siding.  For ME, this was the best option.  

I cannot really help you answer your question until you can be more specific about what you want to know.

Jeff

[glenn-k]

Here is one log home builder/instructor who seems to make a lot of sense to me.http://www.loghomebuilders.org/

[RayN]

Jeff,

I am mainly interested in expense and ease of build for a DIY.  Since in my case I'm talking about a small building as a retreat,  so the finish can be more rustic than the typical new everday home.

It just appears to me than in going with standard  framing a single wall has: dimensional stud wall, insulation, interior finish (sheetrock, wood, or other), exterior sheathing, then siding.  Finished logs give you all of the above.

So my question is:  Given I'm building a small footprint rectangular structure and trying to do as much myself as possible, and keep the price down, is finished logs advantagous over standard framing?

[borgdog]

Another option that looks incredibly do-it-yourself friendly is the Sing Log Home.
http://www.singloghomes.com/

[JeffnTN]

well, unless you are rolling in money (and have some left to burn)  I suggest you do some serious research on the annual to semi-annual cost of maintenance of a log home.

[jraabe]

If you're up to it there is a ton of information/difference of opinion on log structures in the old forum: http://www.countryplans.com/bbs/search.html Use the search button. I came up with over 8 pages.

Log makes sense if you have lots of energy and time and are building at a remote sites where you can cut your own timber. At such a site (interior of Alaska?) standard building materials would probably be quite expensive and difficult to bring in.

Contracted log homes and log home kits built by paid builders are very much high-end. They also come with lots of special problems that require additional money each year.

I worked on one 5,000 sf lodge and the owners kept a builder on retainer for several years to jack up the stairs, redo flashings and fix the leaking windows until the shrinkage finally stabilized. I'm sure they spent an additional $15,000 to $20,000 on these repairs. The house was a precut kit from Norway and came with its own crew of builders. It was very well built and looks great.

Just a note—vertical log (stockade style) helps reduce some of these log home problems as does building small and rustic.

[jdew]

I've looked into building a log cabin pretty thoroughly and everytime I dig into it I come to the same conclusion - too expensive to build.  Or if you happen to have the materials available (tall straight trees), too much work for me.  In the amount of effort and time put into cutting and peeling the logs you could have your foundation in and have the shell up.

But then again, I've never actually built one.

[glenn-k]

RayN,
How about a log post and beam structure with cob, strawbale or other infill if you want to keep cost down and do it yourself.  It would be similar to the underground house, and give you your log cabin rustic look.  Are you in a building permit required area?  If so you may need engineering.  

John or anyone else know if a post and beam structure has a approved acceptable standard in the code or do they always require engineering?

Glenn

[John Raabe]

Such a non-standard building would require engineering in my area, I know.

That isn't such a big deal however. My engineer has never charged me more than $300 even on large two story houses.

If you can figure a way to brace the beams to the posts (such as 45º 4x6 brackets) an engineer can probably make it fly. Pretty simple problem if you generally know what you want to do.

[JeffnTN]

RayN

John and glenn both made some good points here.....

Although I have no codes to follow here in the boonies,  i exceeded all codes just for my PEACE Of Mind.  

Where are you building?  Will there be a code issue?

[glenn kangiser]

Logs that have been left sitting for about a year peel much easier than logs that are freshly cut.  The bugs generally work in the cambium layer right under the bark, loosening it and decorating the surface of the wood.  The log also shrinks and separates from the bark.  Shrinkage can continue for more than one year.

Decay of the wood can start especially if it is in contact with earth in which case various fungi will send tendrils out to draw water into the log and decompose it.  Fresh logs usually require lots of work with a draw knife and pressure washer to remove the bark - 8" dia x 16 feet = about 2 hours hard labor compared to 1 year old log at about 10 minutes or less.  Previous information from my experience with pine and cedar.

[Amanda_931]

Here in the South you might have some trouble with logs that have set with the bark on for a year.  Even if they are stacked on logs on the ground.   Fungus starts to grow very quickly.

We sided a treehouse with first cuts off of hickory logs from the sawmill.  By the next summer there was sawdust from beetles under the bark EVERYWHERE.

It still looks awfully nice, though.

I love my treehouse (even if it's only a couple of steps off the ground!).

[JimMartin]

Instead of putting up with all of the problems involved in using round logs, why isn´t sawmill  squaring of logs to something like 6X8 more popular?  You would shorten drying time, they would fit  flat together, the weight would be less, you would get rid of a lot of the  spring wood, etc.
Is it just a matter of looks?

[Shelley]

Ray,

Your first post said "D" logs.  That would indicate a kit.

You don't say where you live.  When I lived in Durango, CO had a log house.  Standing dead spruce, built the traditional way.  No maintenance of any kind.

Check these guys.  We were thinking that a log wing on an adobe house might be cool.  NAFTA allows serious reduction in import fees, but one must purchase the entire kit to get the savings...so we discounted them.

But, we were very impressed with the system they use to join/build the walls.

http://www.truenorthloghomes.com/NewFiles/home.html

[Amanda_931]

Some people up the road are doing something on the order of railroad tie logs for an addition--they might be the 6x8's.  It's going pretty slowly, but those things are heavy, and he works over in the next county.  

But they don't look like the current crop of store-boughten log cabins.  And logs are too uniform, and too small, to be the old time ones.

In the first of the (other) vertical log cabins I heard of in the county, the owner had a sawmill slice his logs so there were two opposite flat surfaces.  He was a logging truck driver, so transportation wasn't much of an issue.  In that style of building it doesn't matter much if the logs are all the same size.  

And landscape screws to put them together feel really solid.   Hard to saw those screws out.  A hacksaw works best.  Long unpleasant story.

But sliced that way would have been very nice.  Much less chinking.  (I'm having to replace a lot of mine, durn it)

[hunter63]

Just curious, what does everyone consider a cost per Sq. ft for small stick built vs log?
Finished shell on footings?

[Shelley]

Foundation regardless.  Roof regardless.

I guess that the trouble with some of the log kit builders is the  fact that they include some regardless things.

Price of lumber depends upon where you live.  It's also a commodity and the price fluctuates.  OSB has gone way high since everyone's buying it up, factories underestimated demand.  So, unless you do it all the time, for a living...You gotta check.
Price of the kit influenced by your distance from the mfg...freight.

Road trip to HD with a notebook where you jot down the prices for things.  Guess I'd start with the price of the kit and what's included.  Then price out the eqivilant in frame.  Then decide whether one or the other will save you time or $$ that's not apparent in just the cost of materials.

Then you have to decide what trades and materials can be eliminated by log...ie no drywall and no drywallers...no painters...no insulation...etc.

Probably one or all of the kit companies would give you a comparison.  They have to be pretty up on that stuff for their marketing hype.  "Our cost is only 10% higher than frame and you can eliminate X"

Anway, that's how I'd do it.  Probably someone else has an easier way.

[Shelley]

Forgot.  HD has an application that you can get at the contractors desk.  Load it up and you have their catalog with prices.

[Amanda_931]

One of my neighbors  had an Amish or Mennonite built shell house for 10k about two years ago.  Roof, exterior (stud) walls, windows, subfloor upstairs and down, siding. exterior doors.  Just a big open space.  On, strangely enough, piers.  Nice big porch.  Maybe 20x30 inside.

No plumbing, electrical wiring, insulation, interior walls, or partitions, etc.

500 pound gorilla (AKA HD) in some locations offers a small story-and-a-half storage-like building with windows--I think you may get to provide the piers--for only a bit over $5k.  Assembled, maybe trucked in.

If you just love peeling logs, and have them to cut and peel, a vertical log cabin might be your cheapest option.  You'd pay for whatever you did in the way of foundation windows door and roof--some--probably not all--of the roof framing could be round wood.  don't know if you'd care to scrounge roofing, but windows are exceptionally scroungeable.

[hunter63]

I am in process of finishing the inside of of one of the "Amish" cabins.
They are on piers for a couple of reasons,
1) They build them in a barn, then hook you up w/trucker to deliver them. Back in and jack up and off.
2) At least around here they are considered "portable "so alot of codes don't apply.
This because they saw their own lumber from the outside of the logs, before it's milled to the final (D) shape.
State was supposed to change at the begining of this year(don't know for sure)

16'X30' w/8' porch, full length 15K, smaller ones for less.
After 15 years of ploting and planning, asking questions, and yes ,buying lots of plans, we decided that this was what we were looking for at a reasonable price (could afford with out morgage).

We added 10 ft to the length(includes porch) and dormers and couldn't be happier w/ the results.
!0 ft = bathroom.
With lofts, 14 ft and 12 ft = about 975 usable sg ft

Building my own cabinets now

[eddiescabin]

Hello Im rebuilding a milled redwood log home that was built in 1924.  It is made of D type logs, milled with tongue and groove on top/bottom of logs, goes together like lincoln logs almost.  NO interior frame as instead of a 2x4 every 16" it is solid wood every inch.  The front wall has windows all the way down witha 4x6 cap beam.  Regular (mine are handmade0 trusses.  See my recent posts under eddiescabin. Good luck,

[rwanders]

Hello Im rebuilding a milled redwood log home that was built in 1924.  It is made of D type logs, milled with tongue and groove on top/bottom of logs, goes together like lincoln logs almost.  NO interior frame as instead of a 2x4 every 16" it is solid wood every inch.  The front wall has windows all the way down witha 4x6 cap beam.  Regular (mine are handmade0 trusses.  See my recent posts under eddiescabin. Good luck,

Sounds very similar to a Lindal Cedar Home

[poppy]

Wow, Eddie, not quite sure why you resurrected a 5 year old thread. 

I was preparing a response in my head until I looked at the dates.