1.5 Story In Kentucky

[glenn kangiser]

I would work it out somehow to keep the 12:12 if it was me.  In my opinion anything less on this type of house compromises its looks and puts it in the modern conventional house group - but that's just me, and I don't have brains to stay off of a steep roof.

The only roof I have fallen off of was a 1/2:12 pitch patio roof.

[ScottA]

Stay with 12/12. Build scafolding, staging etc to make your work safer and easier. Use roof jacks to work on the steep roof. heres what I did.

[apaknad]

very nice, good for you. do you mind if i ask you what price you paid for 6 acres? i am still looking.

[prohomesteader]

@apaknad - I paid $24900 for 6.29 acres.  there are lots still for sale around me:  http://www.brunerland.com/Kentucky/DarrellPleasantValleyFarm.htm

@scotta - thanks for the pictures, the roof looks even steeper than I imagined.  I think we can handle the rafters but I'm second guessing the outside roof work now.

@john @glenn @mountain @soomb thanks for the great advice.  Overwhelmingly I think I'll be keeping the 12/12 pitch now

the following hit home considering i can't remember ever being on a roof before and I've made at least one mistake in almost every new thing I've tried so far

It's not the best place to learn brand new roofing skills

the roof jacks were $7 per piece at lowes however the harness/safety/fall arrest kit was $149.

I'm now thinking of keeping 12/12 and I think we can do the rafters ourselves, will try and do the rafters this next weekend/week but I'm looking around to hire out putting on the sheathing and felt (and the metal roof later).  If it's not too expensive (what's reasonable to pay someone to do the sheathing and felt?) this will be the route we go.

Just bought 32 H10 simpson hurricane ties at $1.58 each for just over $50.

[apaknad]

good price on the land prohome, when i did my roof i just tied one end of a rope to the opposite side of the roof i was working on and the other end around my belt then waist. saved money but this is up to you to decide.

[glenn kangiser]

Well - if you tie your rope to the trailer hitch on the pickup, take the keys away from the wife.

[phalynx]

Prohome,,  I completely disagree with everyone on the 12/12 vs. 10/12.  ( I feel alone when I disagree with John, the actual architect)  We decided to go with a 10/12 over a 12/12 because at 20' wide, it's 2 feet higher in the middle.  Granted, it's only 2 feet, but we played with the ridge beam on ladders and that 2' made a huge difference in comfort.  As far as losing head room on the 2nd floor, I think it moved the 6' headroom line about 6" inward.  Over all, I think it was the right decision.  It was definately safer for us.

[OldDog]

I still "vote" for a shed dormer on the back side roof!

Glad I added one.  It gave me space for a 4 x 5ft half bath in the loft and more useable headroom.

Just my 2 cents.

Bruce

[prohomesteader]

we went ahead with the 12/12, and no dormers.

we got most of the rafters done where the loft is this past weekend.  here's a picture of the first rafters.  note the 1 piece of sheathing already on the rafters.  it was quite windy and adding 1 sheet to the rafters really firmed things up so it wasn't "swaying" anymore with the stronger winds



Today the wife and I finished the "bridge" thingy so we can reach to do the rest of the rafters.  We used some leftover sheathing, 3 pieces, and then it was a little flimsy so we took scrap sheething that was on the ground and added a second layer where needed to make it more firm



Here's a pic from the bottom.  Because the sheathing was weaker we needed quite a bunch of mini joists.  The main beams are 3 2x12's on each side.  They span about 20ft right now but seem to hold just me well enough.  here's under the bridge



One more picture of the first rafters from a distance, you can also see how we get in and out of the house at the current moment, we didn't do the sheathing for a small part in the back.  after we do some door shopping and build some temp stairs we'll finish up the sheathing there.:



The roof work so far has been pretty difficult, and we haven't started the outside roof work yet.  If you are afraid of heights at all this is not something you want to do yourself, but we are getting more comfortable with doing the rafters.  Still unsure about doing the sheathing or outsourcing it but we'll see.  We are taking more time doing things at this point, or slowed down a bit.

Hopefully we'll put a few more rafters up tomorrow.

Questions:

Still unsure about how to do the eve at the gable end of the house.  The framing book shows 3 boards that hang out and but most of the photos here show over a half dozen boards running perpendicular to the last rafter. 

The rafters where they meet the ridge beam are a couple inches taller than the ridge beam.  We lined them up with the bottom but now they hang over the top of the ridge beam a couple inches each side (forgot to take a picture).  Do you add a filler board between the top of the rafters or leave them?

[Redoverfarm]

prohomesteader good looking "gang plank". I am sure before it is all over your wife will make you walk it to an open end .  You will get more confortable as you go.  It is something that you are not accustomed to.  If the lord really wanted us to be that high he would have given us wings.

The sheeting starts at the bottom.  Once you get that on you are set.  You can nail 2X4 as cleats to stand on or buy about 4 roof jacks and 2X6 as a heel against them.  Real comfortable once you get used to them. I just used 2X4 nailed then pryed them up and moved them up the roof as needed.  Don't forget an occassional nail to work like a stop for the sheeting to rest while you get ready to put it in place.  After the first sheet it will act as that anchor for the bottom of the next sheet.

As far as the rafters. I usually set mine to the top but I guess either way would work.  If you are going with metal roof that will work out for the ridge vent area.  Either leave the sheeting 1 to 1-1/2" lower than the peak on each side.

The block outs for the false rafter is not written in stone. You can install as many as you like but usually every 48" or so.  I put mine on 24" They will be covered if you are using soffit. 

[Sassy]

Wow, going through the owner builder section & seeing all these cabins being built...  you're doing a great job, nice area...  don't remember if you mentioned it, what altitude are you at? 

[prohomesteader]

@sassy - we are at 740ft according to google earth

@redover - thanks for the great answer and insights.  to do the blockouts for the extra eve then you just cut some 12" pieces (assuming a 12 inch eve), space them 24" and just nail to the side of the last rafter?

also, a couple more questions if someone gets time:

1.  we bought the h10 ties for the rafters, is it ok to just put them on the outside and toenail the top of the rafter in place to the top plate or should we put a simpson tie on the inside of the rafter also?

2.  we used something like this (http://www.simplexnails.com/Catalog_PlexCap.jpg) to put the wrap on the house.  they were a real pain to put on cause I was hammering my finger all day and they were slow going.  the construction people said to use them for the roofing felt also.  is there an easier way to attach the roofing felt?  We've got tons of them but I don't want to be up on the roof forever banging in little tacks.  do staples work better/faster or is there a quick way to drive the tacks?

[Redoverfarm]

prohomesteader


It would depend on what overhang you have. If you are planning on a 12" overhang then I would cut them 9".  That takes into account the 2X4 nailed to the house(could used 2"x2") and the outside rafter.  The 9" would be the distance on the inside of those two 2X's.  Another thing you might consider is that if you are going to install a rake facia board onto the outside of the rafter then allow your sheeting to overhang that as well(not just the false rafter)

I think that those should be on the outside.  It would stand to reason that any up lift would be from the outside rather than inside. They also make one that goes on both sides of the rafter and then nails to the plate. I thinnk that is a H10

Oh yes the famous button nails.  They are far superior to roofing nails or stables.  Especially if they are going to be exposed the felt is less likely to pull up. I used plenty on my roof as it stood all winter without roofing.  Almost 7-8 months.  One thing you might consider and it is a little on the pricey side compared to 30# felt and that is "Titaninum Felt"  It is guarenteed for like 18 months exposed.  Especially if it will be sometime until you get the roofing material on or the weather shuts you down first.  Don't recall what you are going with. Metal or Shingles? Here is the site on the roofing underlayment

http://www.interwrap.com/Titanium/udl_30_FB.html

[considerations]

I hired out the work on my 12/12 roof.

Now I know, after having to do a few tricky moves and reaches on the end of the loft staring over the edge of an open gable, that for my health and peace of mind, I made a good decision. 

The only injury was a bruise on my DIY pride.  I think I got off cheap. 

[prohomesteader]

@Redoverfarm - cool, we already bought the felt so we'll be using that and I reckon the button nails all over the roof.

we aren't sure if we will be going the winter with just felt or if we will get the metal on, we'll see.  It really depends on when we sell our current house cause that's where they money is coming from for the metal (and septic and few other things)

@considerations - yeah, we put a few ads on craiglist and asked around, no takers so we will probably do the roof ourselves, and probably save a bunch of money also.

I find standing on a ladder on a gang plank in the wind while attaching rafters to the ridgebeam to be quite nerve racking.  for some reason I don't think the sheathing will be as nerve racking, maybe cause I'll have a rope around me then.

we will put more rafters on this weekend, hopefully come close to finishing them.

[glenn kangiser]

You can easily build safe staging around the house with 2x4s and some temp 2x4's lagged to the side of the house to attach to.

Like a variation of what we did at Mike's.



or my RV Garage.  Put on handrails, of course.

Best to extend them clear down to the ground like in Mike's pix.

[prohomesteader]

glenn - I don't understand what your pictures and staging description is about?  Do you mean to build a platform around the house so it would catch my fall if I fell?  the front eve of the house is around 18' (guesstimate), that would be quite a stretch for a 2x4   i reckon I don't understand, plus I got a harness now mentioned below.

we put up the second ridge beam this week and the remaining rafters except the 2 on the ends for each side.  we will get to that this weekend hopefully.  we also started putting up some sheathing.

I bought a harness and some rope ($29 for the harness, $12 for the rope with 375lb capacity), so far we've been inside the house doing the roof, this weekend I'll need to take the first journey onto the outside.  We found the harness at walmart in the hunting section.

to get the 4x8 panels to the roof I tie one to a rope, throw the rope over the house, then tie it to my truck and take off.  I place a latter between the house and the board and resting on an eave so it doesn't catch going up.

one of the rafters is off center, just the top, by about 6 inches (we were getting tired that day apparently) but we are thinking of leaving it alone as it would be a pain to move now.  don't think it would hurt much eh?



the h10 clips were a bit confusing to install, they have holes and grooves all over them. not intuitive at all.  we ended up attaching one side to the plate with 2 nails and one side to the rafter with 2 nails.

finally the gap left in the sheathing is to climb on to the roof eventually

[glenn kangiser]

Yes - the staging -- I could have 2 simple scaffolds around that in a couple hours or less.  The old looking garage above we lag bolted brackets onto and put the 45 braces on then boards over it.  The other we put horizontals off the forms then long enough legs to be handrail supports also.

The harness would work even better with the staging - scaffold -

That is a steep roof but try it and see how you feel - be careful.

[Sassy]

I couldn't tell what he was trying to show at 1st, but you did see the brackets on the side with 3 dark brown 3x6 boards across to stand on?  He also hung a folding extension ladder over the top of the roof  - so a ladder is secured & hanging down each side...  did I make it totally confusing?  Maybe that wasn't even what you were asking...   

BTW, it's about 26ft to the peak of the cupola...  I was up on the 2nd story walk way out front (by the window-not built in that pic) with my sister & a friend - there's a big planter - I tripped on a 2x4 that was supporting the planter & headed over backwards - my sister & friend grabbed me & pulled me back - Glenn forbid me to go up there until he put some hand rails up there...   

[Redoverfarm]

prohomesteader making good progress.  A 2X4 laid flat on the sheeting or the rafters and temp nailed with 16d will do wonders for your confidence and your footing. Just leave 1/4-1/2" to pull them out.

As far as the OC rafter I personally would not leave it that way. Use a sawzall and cut the nails, reposition it as it will haunt you maybe not now but later in the ceiling stage or when trying to meet the sheets of OSB.

[prohomesteader]

thanks for the explanation glenn, you must work much quicker than me though because it would take a couple days to install the scaffolding like that or longer.  plus we don't need much staging right now because we are hauling the panels into place with teh truck   but thanks much for the suggestions

sassy - yeah I see it now, I will need to do something like that.  i see ladder hooks might be used to hang a latter like that http://www.amazon.com/Qual-Craft-2481-Ladder-Hook-Wheel/dp/B0000224MR/

I also need to pick up some roof jacks at lowes, they are about $7 each.  @redover mentioned using a 2x4 but I think I'll invest in the roof jacks

@Redoverfarm - yeah, but a few off our boards don't line up exactly with 24" on center, just off by an inch or so in places. 

We are terrible with a measuring tape, the wood isn't cut perfect or gets warped a bit, all the 1/8 inch you are supposed to leave between sheathing adds up to throw everything off, etc.  we will reinforce them from the inside later and pay close attention when putting the drywall on.

that's why we did the subfloor and joists at the same time, we didn't have the option with the roof, too difficult, so we will do our best to make it work



Keep in mind that I type/program for a living.  I didn't even own a circular saw before I started this project.  And even at that I'm on my second circular saw because I accidentally cut the cord on the first one 

[ScottA]

I cut the cord on my saw too. I just taped it back together. It's not that hard to line the rafters up. Just mark the plate and the ridge board and bend the rafter in the middle as needed when you put the sheathing on.

[OldDog]

I have 1 saw that i haven't managed to cut the cord yet.

use it enough it will happen

[MountainDon]

I love my cordless Ryobi 18V tools!!! 

all the 1/8 inch you are supposed to leave between sheathing adds up to throw everything off, etc. 

Usually the sheathing panels I've used are sized accordingly to allow for that 1/8" gap. The sheets would be stamped with a notation to that effect.

[r8ingbull]

you can replace that cord with a 25' cord for about $10 and 10 minutes time.