Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)

[OlJarhead]

Taken a few days ago on my way to work.


In places it's up to 24"


I have since widened out the road a little with my 'new' plow blade (neighbor loaned it to me since I plow the whole road and it probably wasn't new in 1950 but it works great!)

Supposed to get another 2-7" today/tonight and then traces all week following so I'm glad I took the time to get the road cleaned up before leaving but will need to pick up some ice melt on my way back because the first big hill is so bad I couldn't get back up with my tractor and had to take a long detour around to an easier hill to get back!  Several inches of ice on the worst sections of that hill and chains that don't fit the tractor well means some pucker factor situations!

Ordered a new Marey hot water heater to replace the one I broke (water froze inside and split the pipes) and a boot tray for under the wood rack.  I think I'll get some plexiglass for behind the wood rack to protect the walls too.

[Rone Warrior]

Howdy all.

Love the thread.

Just wanted to say "Hi" to all the surrounding neighbors in the OH (Okanogan Highlands). I'm another westsider that picked up some property (5 acres, Mt.Hull) last summer, and have delusions of cabin building. The plan is to get out there sometime in July, and build a 16x28 - 16x30. Still trying to decide how exactly I'm going to throw it together, since budget is certainly an issue.

That said, I did have a question on the pier and block setup you used. It appears you dug down a few feet, placed some level pavers and used pier blocks on top. It's now been a few years, and a few cold winters. I wonder how that is working out for you? Any shifting or heaving that you've noticed? I guess the question is: If you had to do it over again, would you sink the posts into sonotubes?

I'm leaning towards sonotubes, but wanted to see how this setup has been holding up for you.

Sorry for such a OT question.

Cheers,
-RW

[OlJarhead]

No movement that I can tell of.  Perhaps it's the soil which is very dry before winter, or perhaps it's the small size of the cabin but I have no frost heave that I can tell.

However, I plan to change the foundation to a footing/cinderblock/SBC foundation this year (or at least start on it) becuase the build I built is heavier than the foundation was designed to hold for one, and for two I plan to hang a deck out there and finally, because I want it enclosed completely for better winter insualtion

My advice?  Look at surface bonded cement and a footing.

I also didn't go down very deep but that was a function of the insane rock.  Lots of moon dust and BIG rocks under that cabin

[OlJarhead]

Score!  I was in one  my CO's that had a decommissioned battery shelf in it.  No batteries left as they had been replaced with a new gel cell bank of batteries on a different shelf...and there still attached to the 'scrap' shelf was a Specific Gravity tester that was no longer in use with a complete mount with beaker style catch to prevent the acid from dripping onto the floor after use.

It is now re-purposed

Original tester in mount -- notice the 'bottle' or 'beaker' at the base to catch the acid.


Another shot


Pretty simple system which can be removed to dump the acid after use.


My tester is newer and I trust it but I'll run some comparisons on the Telco one to see if it still functions correctly (don't see why it wouldn't).

Now I have a place to keep my tester where it is less likely to get broken.

[MountainDon]

Cool. The rubber parts last longer if rinsed after use. At least that has been my experience.

[OlJarhead]

I was thinking the same thing.  In fact I think a good cleaning on the old one and it will likely be good to go since I didn't see any cracking.

[OlJarhead]

As spring approaches fast one thought comes to mind:  I SURVIVED! 

It has been a tough winter with lots of pitfalls, not the least of which is my still frozen grey water drains.  I'll fix that issue before next winter


Meanwhile I found this 'boot tray' on Amazon and after going through several sizes found one that fit perfectly under my wood rack


It does a great job of catching debris falling off the wood when I set it in the rack -- a problem I've had all winter.

[rick91351]

OJ your Survivability was never an issue in my mind..... nor was ours.  Yet the reality of it we both had a remarkable winter.  We did not receive our usual three foot of snow and -20 to -30 degrees here.  Yet the rains have caught us up on moisture pretty well.   I see where yours was colder than ours.  We had a few days of -0 but not bad.  The fifth wheel did well - we are learning the ropes - but then this is our second year in it. Hopefully the last. 

Days are really getting longer and now I would think you will be able to invest more time on the I should have done it this or or thats.  All and all I would say you and the small cabin did well.  Really well.....   

[OlJarhead]

OJ your Survivability was never an issue in my mind..... nor was ours.  Yet the reality of it we both had a remarkable winter.  We did not receive our usual three foot of snow and -20 to -30 degrees here.  Yet the rains have caught us up on moisture pretty well.   I see where yours was colder than ours.  We had a few days of -0 but not bad.  The fifth wheel did well - we are learning the ropes - but then this is our second year in it. Hopefully the last. 

Days are really getting longer and now I would think you will be able to invest more time on the I should have done it this or or thats.  All and all I would say you and the small cabin did well.  Really well.....   

Thanks Rick!  And ya, the -20F I saw was pretty darn cold!

Lots to do in order to be better prepped for next winter but it's great to have pulled through this one!  I don't expect to do more then 2 or 3 but who knows right?

[OlJarhead]

I thought I would report on the propane:

First, yes when it gets warm the gauge goes up.  I've seen it fluctuate as much as 5% which is a good thing

Last look I was sitting just above 30% in the warm afternoon (40+) and since I'll only be back for two days this week (Wed/Thu) it won't be used much other than to keep the back room warm which is does every day.  This means, with luck, I ought to make April with just a little less than 30% I think.

With luck that means I'll be able to push it until propane drops to at least $2/gallon before filling. 

Next year it ought to be even better because I am improving the place a lot so I'm thinking the 500 gallons will be perfect.  Just have to watch generator use in the dead of winter a little more and keep the place well insulated (skirts around the bottom if I don't get the new foundation done for example).

[rick91351]

Skirting is key OJ - Well insulated skirting and some plastic sheeting or house wrap that was laying around made a world of difference here in the fifth wheel this winter.  When we unskirt it when the house is finished.  I plan on using the skirting which is 4x8 sheets of OSB and some 2X8 OSB sort of 2x4 framed SIPs to do a shed or chicken house. 
   

[OlJarhead]

Weather is improving and I have the sawmill back up here.  I planned to get it set up yesterday but had a bought with a nasty big (gone now I think) so the mill sits waiting for me to clear the landing with the tractor and get working.

I have given this springs work much though and can't wait to get cracking! 

And propane?  Still at 30%!

[OlJarhead]

Propane prices are high still ($2.99/gallon delivered) so not going to fill the tank yet.  Maybe May if I can make it there which I think I can.

Got the landing for the mill cleaned up a bunch yesterday so it's about ready for me to place the mill back in it's spot and start milling again

And since Spring is here I'm dreaming of all the work I hope to get done!  Though, without more propane I have to watch the fuel usage so can't run the big generator that much -- might have to get the old gas Champion repaired to save Propane -- after all, I run that a gallon or three at a time which is easier on the budget than filling a 500 gallon propane tank.

[OlJarhead]

Back at the cabin after another 5 day visit back home.  These 'visits' home have saved me a TON in propane   I'm still at 30% and while LP is $3/gallon still I'm thinking I can make it to June before I really have to fill up and by then it ought to be cheaper.

I think my drains are thawed now too!  I dumped a gallon or two down the drain an didn't see any leakage and checking the grey water tank and it appears 'wet' in the pipe leading into it...so I'm thinking I'm good!

But wait, there's more!

My metal working neighbor took a look at my damaged heater and thought a friend of his who repairs HVAC systems might be able to fix it....$50 later and it was repaired!  He had to do some careful heating of the thin walled pipe and then silver soldiered it back together and it's good as new!  Tested it with City water pressure and no leaks.

Only issue I see now is that I have an almost empty cistern and though I left the pump in the 'on' position while I was gone it didn't appear to get enough sun to pump any water (at least that's what I hope the problem is!)....now that I'm here for a couple weeks I'm hoping to resolve that issue.  If I can, then I can get the hot water installed and with the drains working, heck, it might almost be like living in the big city!  What with water, hot water, showers and all

[OlJarhead]

 

Grey water drain pipe is in fat cracked in a few places.  I had dug some of it up (or down to it more like) and today dumped a gallon and a half down the sink and ran outside to check to see where it was going and much to my dismay it was both coming out of the Y pipe (right where the cabin drains meet the 4" mainline and out of the 4" sewage mainline pipe going to my grey water tank.

So, this means I'll have to dig up about ten feet of pipe (and I'll have to break through some frozen ground tough it's pretty shallow frost now) and cut out several feet of the drain and replace it.  However, once done it will be clear and working again.

Once it's much later in the spring I plan to lower it a bunch.

[OlJarhead]

After some fidding I found out what was wrong with the wiring on the solar pump controller and got it sorted so it will only run when the float is down and the switch in 'on' however the line is frozen and there is no pumping for another week or four

I realized that putting in the one way valve I installed a year or two ago was a bad idea now.  Sure it kept the water from flowing back into the well when the pump shut off but it kept the water in the line so it could freeze too!  So now I have to plan on removing it once things finish thawing out.  With luck I'll be back to pumping my own water in a month or less.  Meanwhile here is my solution:

One tractor, one set of forks, one barrel on a pallet and one neighbor with lots of water equals this old Jarhead has water again!


Drove up to the neighbors (slowly) filled the barrel and drove back to my place and up to the cistern, then siphoned the water into the tank and now I have 50 gallons more   Will do this again today, maybe twice.


As you can see there is still a little ice at the top of the tank.  It's about 2-3 inches thick and goes down about 12 inches on the sides (or did).  At one point the melting made me think I was pumping a little water because I could hear dripping into the tank....then I took the lid off and found this melting block of ice...must be a gallon or two there.


Once I'd dealt with the water situation I set to digging up the frozen drain.  It's 90% ready to cut out and today, once it's warmed up I'll cut it out and replace it with a new pipe and then should be back to using my grey water drain.  Then I'll install the hot water tank and add water to the cistern and I ought to be living large then!

[OlJarhead]

For my grey water drain system I plan to lower it another 18" then place a heat trace down the length of the 4" drain line and insulate the line with silver insulation.  I then plan to place R10 foam about 6 inches above the pipe and about 3 feet wide before fully burying again.

I'll insulate the tank also and add R10 radiating out from it 3 feet and build up the ground above it some and add R30 (3 layers of R10) foam above the lid with a second decorative lid above that.  With luck and a little engineering I might get the tank situated so it doesn't freeze again.  After all, in the dead of winter there was only about 6" off frozen water on top of the tank so if I can keep that from happening then I can keep it from plugging up.

For the cistern I have this solution:  Remove the one way check valve I placed at the well so the water can drain back into the well when not pumping.  This will prevent the line from freezing in the winter.  Next I'll dig down and place R1 foam radiating out away from the tank 36" and add some R10 to the underside of the lid somehow.  This should give me enough insulation to prevent freezing up since the tank is down 24" to the top of the tank and another 12+ inches to the water level but I also think I'll build a 'tank house' on top of the tank with a big south facing window in it.  I find my uninsulated porch stays 10-15 degrees warmer then outside air temps so if I build 4 walls and a roof over the cistern with a big south facing window it ought to provide some solar heating that will help prevent freezing in the winter.  If I build it right I'll have enough room to go inside when working on the tank with places to store things like cleaning brushes, hoses etc.

I would then also have a place to some day install a solar panel and components for a power system to give me lighting at night and perhaps a pump to draw water off the cistern for watering a garden up near the tank -- something I've thought about doing in the past.

[Adam Roby]

I am in no way an expert here... but I am wondering if you could install bypass valve so the water in the line could be emptied when you close up for the winter.  Something like this:  (The red box being the 1 way value, with the orange pipe adding air to the main pipe in order for it to drain).

[rick91351]

In the great white frozen north there is no such thing as I don't need to bury it that deep nor over preping - Funny the only way you find out if it was good enough at the end of winter.  It is did it freeze?  Nope  Then it was done right!  Seems it is just pass and fail.  Here at my digs - Did we bury the water line to deep?  They never have froze.  So they pass but ....  I guess there is no real - but what if we would have went __ deep?    Did we have enough fuel? Yep then we did it right!  Did we have to lay in and loose work?  Nope.  Then it was done right.  I would certainly also would want to know - Did I have enough food and supplies stored to last two to three weeks or more if the huge blast from the north comes sweeping through.  Or land or snow slides take out the road and strands you.   

If you do not want to build a shed over your cistern you might take all your collected sawdust from the mill. Crib a area over it and bed that area with a 16 - 18 or more inches of sawdust.  It is wet I know but it will help.  Or you can mix it with pine straw or needles if you want to gather a bunch up and does reduce fire risk under you trees.  It also will produce some heat as it starts to decompose.  Also works to keep stuff cool in the summer.  sort of a poor man insulation.  I would also put a swallow layer of soil over it to prevent a spark or match or ........ 

Sure sound like you are getting the kinks worked out and finding the weak links.  Next winter if you are still there I know you will be going in to it a lot more confident.  Actually your doins' are a great study or experiment for those who might want to do the homestead thing.  I know you have some a lot better ideas of thou shalt and shalt nots now than when you started this.       

[OlJarhead]

No need to drain if it's deep enough and well insulated   That's the key really and I need it working next year so I'll do it 'right'.  At least right in my mind

My neighbor has a water line from his well that hasn't frozen in 30 years.  It rises to enter the well to about 36" after backfilling on top of it.  He left a lot of pine needles and grass fill on top and let the weeds grow in that...the insulation has proven more than sufficient but he always hopes for 4" of snow to insulate the ground better.  In my case I just didn't plan to use the grey water in winter and had no means on hand to dig it deeper when installed....that will change

A neighbor has a backhoe now and I have a mill....he wants some lumber, I want a deeper pipe...you get the idea!  The deal is struck so I'm good.


Pipe removed finally.  Had to wait for the ground to warm up more.


New pipe installed.  It must be much deeper but for now it's workable.


You can see the frozen tubes from the old pipe.  It was solid for nearly 20 feet despite days in the sun.


Backfilled for animal and light freeze protection:  note, if the system is working then there is no water in this pipe normally.  It drains into the tank and from there into the drywell which allows it to drain to the ground.

[OlJarhead]

Old hot water heater repaired by an HVAC tech works fine   I'm back to hot water!!!! 

That means SHOWER!


Got 5 more logs to mill set up on the landing.


I've got about 12 logs on the landing now and about 4 or 5 trees to buck up (another 15 to 25 logs depending on the trees)....

So I'll be BUSY this spring!

[OlJarhead]

I did it!  I pulled the trigger on the LumberJack Tenon cutter set that's onsale right now (saves about $30 of reg price).  Got the 1", 1.5" and 2" Tenon cutters and bits (already had the bits but extras don't hurt).

Now I plan to go get a door ordered and to buy a drill press etc.

Can't wait to get making railings!

Next up:  fix my water!  I hope the ground is finally thawed enough to get it done.  Was a bit tough last attempt but I got close so I hope that since a weekend has passed it ought to be good to dig and repair now.  Let's hope anyway, as I plan to get milling also.

[OlJarhead]

SOLD!  The 'Road Warrior' that is   My old jeep has a new home.  Just couldn't let it sit any longer and I drive the truck these days since my wife has a new Outback.

Now I think I'll buy that new Auger I want for the tractor

[OlJarhead]

Solving my winter issues has become a great experience thanks to the folks at 'The Natural Home' where I bought my grey water drain system.n  First was o address the problem of the tank freezing over near the surface and causing the lines to back up and freeze.  To prevent this they suggested this little jewel:  http://www.amazon.com/Allied-Precision-7521-Floating-500-Watt/dp/B0006HRQNG/

It does draw 1500 watts so can't be run all the time but I plan to set it up on a 'generator only' power circuit so when the generator is running to charge the battery bank (or when I choose to manually run it) the heater will come on and thaw any ice in the tank.  I'll have to install the de-icer guard so it won't burn the side of the tank but that's cheap also and I can add one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-TC-3-Thermostatically-Controlled/dp/B0006U2HD2/ref=pd_bxgy_lg_text_z/181-4350895-8220355 to turn the power on when the outside air temp drops to a temp that I know will freeze the tank etc.

Then, I'll install a heat tape inside the 4" pipe running from the cabin into the tank but only make use of that when necessary.  I'll do the same for the drain from the tub which runs under the cabin, that way if it freezes I can thaw it out easily enough.

Finally, I'll bed in the pipe and tank better with some gravel from drainage away from both, lower them 24" and add a layer of R10 foam to the ground above the gravel bedding and a triple layer of foam above the tank (I'll make it look like a well above the tank and foam the lid above and below) so it is well insulated.  This way when I do run the heater it ought to hold that heat well and keep from freezing.

I think we these measures I should be able to survive the winter next year and actually have usable drains and running water etc all winter long (which will be rather nice).

[rick91351]

If using a tank heater or heat tape on a GFI outlet I would sure change that out.  Sooner or latter the GFI monster will bite you.  Voice of experience....

Tanks heater guards are usually a wire cage of sorts.  Simple and are held on by a couple sheet metal brackets.   

WOW I don't know if I would heat tape inside the four inch pipe.     And I am a fan of heat tape and tank heaters.....  but the thou shalt and shalt nots heat tape is sort of weird.  What you can get away with and not.  However it would not be a dwelling fire safety issue so I might try it but I would also be concerned of it starting to dam and hold back the scum and 'stuff' that goes with gray water.

Hermiston or Pendleton lost a garden supply business last winter with a heat tape malfunction.  Shortly after Boise lost a house or dwelling of some type due to heat tape so I went redid a bunch on the fifthwheel.  I had it way too insulated.  It never froze ....  So all was well....Wink