Slab foundation

[redbird]

After living in homes with basements my whole life, in Kansas, I'm thinking twice about building one.  Every single basement I see or have lived in is moist and full of insects and spiders, and is caving in somewhere on one side from earth adjustment  .  Just seems so pointless to build one when problems are likely to arise someday.  I couldn't care less about the value as I just want it to be affordable to me now.  I live in the country now and we have a lot of bugs, but if it's sealed properly I can't imagine the insects/termites would be a huge problem, especially if we have chickens who like to eat them.

I also have this other weird thing about living on the ground, feels better to me for some reason.

Regarding tornado's, I honestly believe that the safest option is an external buried shelter, my dream is to put it in the sun room, so at least I'd have a little shelter when traveling to the tornado shelter.

My Dad seems to think that concrete is so great nowadays that it's not going to crack or have a ton of issues.  And I mean could you not have some kind of drainage system in place just in case of pooled water?

What do you think?  I'd love to hear of someone's experience with a slab foundation in the midwest where temperatures are extreme one way and the other.

[rick91351]

Your question about a basement.  We have one we have no moisture and no insect problems.  Our family room, a spare bed room and my office, and a craft room are down there. 

We have egress windows in the office and bedroom.

My office with the egress window:



We do not have a sump and I think if I we to stay here - (it is up for sale) we would install a sump with a sump pump because no matter what you do you can not train water to run up hill.  So when the inevitable water leak happens some place in the house it is a piece of cake and way way less water damage and very easy to do.  Sort of a low point drain and a pump to the outside or drain.

As far as concrete is concerned properly poured and properly formed the engineers claim the life spam is over 150 years now and with proper footings or as some call them footers with rebar and rebar in the walls chances of failure and cracking is greatly diminished.  As far as me telling you that you need not worry about caving in I can do that all day and it would never satisfy your fear.

Slabs floors I have never been around all that much.  When I was in concrete they were not popular and today around here very little is done that way.  That said I have problems with them in the long term  because plumbing goes bad you have to jack hammer replace the plumbing and then replace the concrete and then replace the floor covering.  True with the new plumbing today and Pex seem to last forever might never happen.  Or you need to want to or want to add an electrical circuit.  You could have just done it from the crawl space but now your either sawing sheet rock or trying to fish it down from the ceiling.       

[Alan Gage]

I built on a slab in NW Iowa last year. No problem. Just make sure you insulate it well, both underneath and along the perimeter.

I'd also recommend a floor drain in the utility room. Haven't had a need for it yet but it would be nice to know it's there.

Alan

[MountainDon]

We've lived on a slab since '85. All in all I'm satisfied. I would build again on a slab, but I would like it to be elevated a few inches more than ours. That would make it easier to keep things like wood siding higher above grade.  Some plumbing can be run through walls. Electrical should be well planned and more than the minimum number of outlets planned and installed.

[hpinson]

Slabs can have insect problems too. Where Don and I live, termites are endemic, and if the slab is too low, the termites have a direct path into the wood above.  I've heard an estimate that something like 50% of the houses in the town where I live in have this problem.

[rick91351]

Slabs can have insect problems too. Where Don and I live, termites are endemic, and if the slab is too low, the termites have a direct path into the wood above.  I've heard an estimate that something like 50% of the houses in the town where I live in have this problem.

Yep  pretty much two types of houses out there.  Them that have termites and them that will some day.............  Yep   

[fishing_guy]

Slabs floors I have never been around all that much.  When I was in concrete they were not popular and today around here very little is done that way.  That said I have problems with them in the long term  because plumbing goes bad you have to jack hammer replace the plumbing and then replace the concrete and then replace the floor covering.  True with the new plumbing today and Pex seem to last forever might never happen.  Or you need to want to or want to add an electrical circuit.  You could have just done it from the crawl space but now your either sawing sheet rock or trying to fish it down from the ceiling.     

If the plumbing goes bad or you want to add electrical in a basement , if it's finished you're going to be taking out walls anyway.  Not THAT big of a deal.  Drywall is cheap.  Basically, all you're out is the time for the repair.
Nice Study...and I have to admit we had a damp basement.  Putting in drain tile on the inside perimeter to a sump did the trick.  Actually, just punching holes in the block did the trick.  We haven't had a drip of water in the sump since we put it in 20 years ago.

[rick91351]

Fishing_guy your points on basements are well taken by me.

I am not as anti slab floor as I might sound.  Like I wrote they have never have been all the popular here in the Boise Area.  A couple of the big developers in the building boom were pushing them.  One of them got sued in a class action type suit for a couple screw ups.  (Water damage)  This only propagated more ill feelings toward them.  Yet when I look other places they are good thing.  I really like Jeff Victoria's Cottage in Maine with the insulated slab.  One of the reasons I do like this forum.  I have a chance to see a more through cross section of styles and ideas and builds.

       

[Squirl]

My Dad seems to think that concrete is so great nowadays that it's not going to crack or have a ton of issues.  And I mean could you not have some kind of drainage system in place just in case of pooled water?

This was the only thing that got me.  I love reading about concrete, but I haven't read a lot that has changed in it in our lifetimes.  Sure there are zirconia fiber reinforced concretes now, but I haven't brushed into a lot of people using them in home construction.

I have an old book from the 1960s on concrete projects.  There seems to be a few techniques that are more common, such as greater rebar reinforcement, higher strength mixes, and more emphasis on control joints.  To me, those seem to fall into the category of better understanding the limits of the material over time, not a change in the material itself.

I may be missing something.  What is "new" about today's concrete?

[redbird]

@squirl, I'll have to ask dad what he meant by that.  I'm sure he means what you mean in that there are just better ways to make it last longer by techniques.  Although, I bet he was thinking about the fiber reinforced concrete.  He used to be a stone mason and has built a lot of structures over the years.  I don't know much about it.  He thinks we HAVE to have a basement. 

@rick91351, thanks for sharing.  In an ideal world we'd prefer to have a walkout basement.  It would be awesome.  I just don't think we can afford a decent sized house and a basement.  I'm talking 1000 sq ft total.

Thanks all for the advice.  I think having a drain is a must in a slab house, which is more sq footage but it would be more affordable in the long run.  Call me stupid but why does the electrical have to go into the slab?  Sorry, I guess I don't know too much about it.   I understand plumbing must that makes sense.  And honestly isn't plumbing still in the basement slab?  So either way if there was a major problem you'd be cutting cement and making a mess.  If we had a basement, we'd be using the sq footage to live in, so it would be a giant mess either way I think.

[Squirl]

Mason.  That might explain it.  He has probably laid a hundred block basements too.  The most common zirconia fiber cements are surface bonding cements.   They allow for no mortar between blocks if desired.  They found a way to make the fibers out of zirconia so that they don't break down by the alkali nature of the cement. They are crack resistant and almost water proof also.  Many people are using them just for those purposes even on poured concrete walls.  It is one of the newest things in an area that hasn't changed much since the invention of portland cement.

If I was going to have a basement, I wouldn't hesitate to SBC the walls.  A few dollars extra at $15 per 50 sq. ft., but if it waterproofs, strengthens, and doesn't break down over time like tar, well worth it in my book.

[MountainDon]

.....why does the electrical have to go into the slab?  Sorry, I guess I don't know too much about it. ....

Electrical does not go in the slab, at least it never goes in the slab here where virtually everything is built on a slab. The electrical service comes underground to the side of the building, runs up to the meter socket and then inside, usually to the garage. Sometimes the home will have an exterior mount service panel at the meter socket.

And the supply side water piping is all PEX; no fittings in the slab at all. Drain/Waste is under the slab but that seldom has issues.

[redbird]

Cool!