U.S. Military Industrial Complex Alive and Well

[Shawn B]

U.S. arms sales to Yemen to fight Al-Qaida 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/8007239/Pentagon-to-funnel-US-arms-to-Yemen-to-fight-al-Qaeda.html


Massive arms deal to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129861216&ft=1&f=1003


The one thing that Patriotic Americans can do to help stop this NWO agenda is to stop enlisting and encouraging the youth to join the military.

When the States and Federal Gov't use the military per the Constitution then I will once again support it.

*note this is not a anti-military post, rather a pro-Constitutional use of it.

[MountainDon]

"U.S. Military Industrial Complex Alive and Well"


... and that is generally a good thing; being alive, well and viable.

[Shawn B]

So you think it is "well and viable" for the Fed Gov't to be selling arms to third world countries, oil dictatorships, military junta's, and nations that practice sharia law? How about the irony of arming Muslim nations as well as the military dictatorship/segregated/Zionist nation of Israeli. Apparently you have not heard or do not remember Eisenhower and Kennedy's warnings of the military industrial complex?

[MountainDon]

All I said was that I thought it was good to have a strong viable weapons development system.  

As far as selling arms, I believe "you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't".

Ike warned to be on guard against too much power being acquired by a military industrial complex. He went on to say "Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." He didn't say we should not have a military industrial complex, just that it required watching. It is agreed that the watching has failed in some ways. However, I'd rather have a strong capability of designing and manufacturing our own arms, than to not have the ability.


I'm stopping at that. Individuals who single out Israel in any arguments as you have, in my experiences of the past too often have agendas I have trouble reconciling with. I'd just rather not be part of a discussion that may go in that direction.

[muldoon]

Our president won the Nobel peace prize this year.  kinda odd that he is simultaneously the worlds largest arms dealer at the same time...
..

[Windpower]

Eisenhower's farewell speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9_fyDV7Mnk&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbUAwCE7JVY&feature=related

[Windpower]

John F Kennedy on conspiracies and secret societies



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuvGEdR0THc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHtOquNXJng&feature=related

[Shawn B]

However, I'd rather have a strong capability of designing and manufacturing our own arms, than to not have the ability.

I agree that the gov't should procure weapons, BUT for it's own use, and only within strict compliance with the Constitution in actual defense of the U.S.  Not to sell them to countries that do not have the best of intentions for the U.S.

" He didn't say we should not have a military industrial complex, just that it required watching

Of course Ike wanted a strong manufacturing base for weapons, I can't argue with that. What he was warning about was the military, and those who supply the military...which is largely private business's from coming into, or affecting political power. Sadly we as a nation have drastically failed in this regard. I suggest you watch the movie, "Lord of War", which is loosely based on actual happenings.

I'm stopping at that. Individuals who single out Israel in any arguments as you have, in my experiences of the past too often have agendas I have trouble reconciling with. I'd just rather not be part of a discussion that may go in that direction.

I did not single out the nation of Israel, simply included it in a list of other nations that receive massive and continuing military aid from the U.S. gov't. What part of my statement is wrong? Israel is a segregated nation. Ever hear of the Gaza or the West Bank? Their gov't is largely made up of existing and former military people and the military wields vast influence over the civil gov't. That makes them a defacto military dictatorship. Is Israel so special that one can not criticize their actions, policies and U.S. involvement and influence? But more importantly can no one criticize them for their actions and influence on U.S. policy?
Judging by your last statement I think you have trouble separating the current nation of Israel, the gov't of Israel, the people of Israel, and Israel of the Bible. I was speaking about the gov't of Israel and the people who control and influence it, not of the Israeli people or the nation that God established. But more importantly this thread is about the vast power that arms manufactures and the military have over this nation,  and others. Maybe you cannot criticize Israel because of religious, social, or other reasons? I simply follow the money, power, and destruction that is the result of this complex.

[glenn kangiser]

I'm with you on this, Shawn B.

We are selling weapons to Saudi Arabia - the country the 9/11 hijackers came from.  I am sure ones who do not consider 9/11 a conspiracy cannot argue with that.

Why would we even consider such a thing ...but then I still haven't figured out why we attacked Afghanistan when we were allegedly attacked by Saudi's - but then the Saudi Prince was considered one of GWB's family members - see "Bandar Bush".... hmm wonder if he asked for help with.... never mind

[Squirl]

Their gov't is largely made up of existing and former military people and the military wields vast influence over the civil gov't. That makes them a defacto military dictatorship. Is Israel so special that one can not criticize their actions, policies and U.S. involvement and influence? But more importantly can no one criticize them for their actions and influence on U.S. policy?

I don't normally weigh in on these, but there is a slight flaw in your logic.  Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens.  Therefore everyone in government has been in the military.  It doesn't make it a military dictatorship.  Switzerland and a dozen others have the same policy.  Also when the U.S. had drafts and mandatory military service, most of the individuals in government after WWII had been in the military.  Yes, Israel has been an ally with the U.S. for 50 years.  The United States basically helped to create the country through the U.N..   The United States controlled the middle east, after they took it from the Germans.

My view on the Saudi's.  They and the Chinese are the largest exporters to the United States.  They have held a lot of our government's debt for the past 30 years.  They financed much of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.  When the banking collapse happened they came in and bought up large portions of our banks.  When they say jump, our government says how high.  When they say they want weapons we give it to them.

[Shawn B]

U.S. spent 58 billion on assassination weapons:

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-08/anyone-anywhere-anytime

Members of U.S. army Srtyker Brigade kill Afghani's for fun (allegedly):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/18/AR2010091803935_pf.html

[Windpower]

Eisenhower puts military costs in human terms


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQ-wgPGTp8

[Shawn B]

Zbigniew Brzezinski founding Osam bin Laden's Mujarhardeen, which later was repackaged as Al-Qaida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg&feature=related

Osama is C.I.A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGXVic15ho&feature=related

[Woodsrule]

Don,

I am with you; a strong viable military is essential to the long-term survival of our country. Also, it is permissible to question any country's policies, but the truth about Israel is simple. It is the only democracy in the middle east and as such, we have an interest there. Simple. Further, I served in the Marine Corps and both of my children are currently serving and none of us (and none of my friends, who are senior enlisted and officers) have found any of these wacky conspiracy theories to have merit. I guess the conspirators are so adept that they can even fool those who serve right beside them. At any rate, I do manage to get some good chuckles when reading the posts of those who see an alien behind every bush.

[Windpower]

Israel is an apartheid state

Not a Democracy

and any country that brutally attacks a US ship killing and injuring over 200 US Navy sailors is NOT a friend

google US LIberty

Here a Marine calls war a Racket

Written by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient


Major General Smedley D. Butler

USMC, Retired

(excerpt)

CHAPTER ONE

WAR IS A RACKET

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[MountainDon]

Israel is an apartheid state

Not a Democracy

Only an opinion and not a universal one.

If I was forced to make a choice between,
(A) being an Arab and living in Israel,
or,
(B) being a Jew and living in an Arab country,
I'd pick (A)

That's my opinion.

[Shawn B]

Israel may try to sell itself as a "Democracy", but in fact it is a Oligarchy, run by it's military industrial complex. Look at the last few presidents and prime ministers all were high up in the IDF. The comparisons between Israel and Switzerland do not have much merit, as Switzerland's military is used for defensive purposes inside it's own border. The Swiss also have a small full time military and a rather large militia, very similar to the U.S. in it's early day's and pre-revolution. Also when one compares the armament and posture of both countries it is easy to see that the Swiss are set up for defense, while Israel is set up to project force and to go on the offensive.

Windpower, War is a Racket should be read by all school children.

Don, Do you mean Arab as in Muslim? The term is not universal. Don, I hope you enjoy your figurative stay in the West Bank, Gaza, or living segregated within other areas. From what I've read you might not want to be Christian and live in Israel.

[Windpower]

Only an opinion and not a universal one.

If I was forced to make a choice between,
(A) being an Arab and living in Israel,
or,
(B) being a Jew and living in an Arab country,
I'd pick (A)

That's my opinion.

Based on what, Don


Palestinians are do not have citizenship in 'Israel' they cannot vote or move freely

They  are treated worse than the blacks in Artheid South Africa


Then there are the Jews that live in Iran that refuse to move to Israel

Some educational reading

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[Squirl]

Well, there is a slight misunderstanding.  From the first war Israel gave the choice of Palestinians to become citizens or not.  Many chose to become citizens.  15-20% of the citizens of Israel are Muslim of Palestinian decent.  The current birth rate for the Muslim population in Israel is over 4 children per family, while the average Jewish birthrate over 2.  It is expected within 20-30 years, it will be a majority Muslim country.  There have always been Muslim members of the parliament. Muslims are members of the IDF and have required military service too.  I'm not saying that life isn't hard for the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.  I'm just saying the facts aren't so black and white. 

The "educational" site is filled blatantly false information and misleading propaganda.  I could easily point to a Zionist website as "educational" which would give no better view other than to paint the Palestinians as all terrorists.

As far as other conflicts of Israel, it has been in many wars.  The U.S. openly used it as a test ground for U.S. vs. Russian weapons through the cold war.  Same as we did with dozens of other countries.