Porch decking material

[dug]

I am trying to decide what material to use for my porch decking and would appreciate any advice you all could offer.

Redwood is commonly available here. My brother used it on his porch in Tucson (built about 10 years ago) and it is not holding up so great. The sun in the Southwest quadrant of the US is hell on wood and he (my bro) has spent considerable time refinishing and sanding it.

A friend who has worked as a contractor in the eastern US says that cedar is a better choice. I talked to the manager at our local lumber yard today and he said he could order it but couldn't understand why I would want to use it. He said it is very soft and that some types of firs or pines sealed and stained would be just as good or better.

Another option would be composites. Expensive I realize but the no maintenance part of it appeals to me. I know little about it though and I am not sure if I would really want a "plastic" deck.

My porch has direct southern exposure so it does avoid the worst of the summer sun if that makes any difference.

Thoughts? Any better alternatives I am not considering?

[NM_Shooter]

Why not the 1x6x5/8 PT decking wood at HD or Lowe's?  It takes a stain pretty well.

[John Raabe]

Shooter has probably the most practical and cost effective material.

Over perhaps 25 years composite decking could be the lowest cost choice as it will have almost zero maintenance - but it is more up front. Also, like other plastic products such as siding and trim, the composite deck will age as the material it is made out of and not the material it is simulating.

[dug]

Thanks. I didn't think of using PT lumber.

My joists set on 24 in. centers. Would 5/8 in. lumber be adequate?
I'm not a huge fan of working with PT though, working on my foundation bracing now and getting sick on the dust! 

[rocking23nf]

2 feet is gonna be really bouncy with that size wood.

[rwanders]

The biggest enemy of all decking materials, including the composites, is snow, rain and sun. After trying almost all of them, I have found the only real solution is to include a roof over a deck or porch. If you do that, almost any decking material and finish will perform very well and maintenance costs will be much lower. Ability to use your deck during rain, snow and hot sun provides a great bonus also. Once you have a covered one you will not want an open one again.

[Pine Cone]

I'm in agreement with rwanders.  Given my covered deck next to my cabin, it's obvious I like covered decks.  You could always make a ramada-style shade roof with sapling sticks which would be traditional in the Southwest.  That would give your deck more protection from sun damage and make it more comfortable in the summer months.

I plan on using locally sawn western red-cedar on my deck in the eventual when, but for now it has 1/2"plywood roof sheathing on it and it would not be my material of choice, it has held up OK.  It will turn into roof or wall sheathing on a storage shed one of these days, but for now I am waiting on finishing the basic cabin construction to be done.  Of course not having any money in this year's cabin budget for cedar decking slows the deck-replacement process as well.

Most redwood decking is made from young redwood trees which have minor amounts of heartwood.  The heartwood from old-growth redwoods holds up very well, but besides being politically incorrect, there just isn't much being made into boards anymore.  Redwood is often dyed to mask the sapwood. 

My experience with composite plastic/sawdust is fairly negative.  It feels flexible when you walk on it and it gets very hot in the summer sun.  I'm glad I did some experiments with it, but I would never want a deck or a walkway built with it.

[dug]

Insert Quote
2 feet is gonna be really bouncy with that size wood

That's kind of what I thought. I was planning to use 1 and 1/2 in.

The biggest enemy of all decking materials, including the composites, is snow, rain and sun. After trying almost all of them, I have found the only real solution is to include a roof over a deck or porch. If you do that, almost any decking material and finish will perform very well and maintenance costs will be much lower. Ability to use your deck during rain, snow and hot sun provides a great bonus also. Once you have a covered one you will not want an open one again.
Posted on: Today at 10:51:21 AM Pos

I'm sorry, I should have specified. It is covered. So is my brother's though and it still gets beat to death. As I said mine, facing south, takes better advantage of the shade provided but I was still concerned about sun damage- also rain as it blows sideways this time of year during a storm.

I plan on using locally sawn western red-cedar on my deck

That is what I was thinking of using but the local lumber dude was discouraging me from this choice. Said it was very soft.
What experience have you had with this type of wood?

[NM_Shooter]

How wide are you going?  Mount the joists 16 O.C. and it will be nice and stiff.  I used 20" OC for my little landing, and it is plenty firm (but I only weigh 180#). 
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4782.msg117660#msg117660

[rwanders]

I used 5/4x6 clear cedar and then applied a heavy coat of redwood stain for both my covered porches. The boards were meant for decking and had multiple kerf cuts (grooves) on the back side to prevent cupping. Joists are 24" oc and provide a good solid feel. Bought at local lumber supply---have never seen them at HD or Lowes.

[Don_P]

You did specify  . A porch is a covered structure, a deck is an uncovered one. My experience with WRCedar decking is that it is also mostly sapwood and too soft for the way I live. I've thrown a chunk of plastic decking in the bonfire to see how it did. I'd hate to have that inferno in my way if I needed to get out or get help into the house in the event of. I also saw the aftermath of what happened when a guy put a grill on a plastic deck and some coals escaped. Our most common decking is 5/4.. 1" dressed PT. stamped RED (radius edge decking). I can get the junk at Lowes and have it shrink lengthwise up to an inch, shear screws and lose slip off the joists, or buy the stuff from a local lumberyard that is better quality and have much less trouble. If you see a pack that contains all hearts, walk on by.

This is a shot of MSP, mixed southern pine, containing a form of reaction wood known as compression wood. If you see much of this at all run before it jumps out of the pile and hits you  


The wider "peanut butter" looking grain is the culprit I'm pointing out here. It is also present near the heart, and you can see some here, less pronounced. It is actually come and go all through this quadrant of the chip. In reaction wood the tree is trying to support itself in a lean or is trying to build strength to support itself during rapid growth spurts. The microfibrils that make up the cell walls are oriented on the bias rather than lengthwise within the cell wall so that as it shrinks there is not only width and thickness shrinkage, there is length shrinkage as well. depending on where in the board this reaction wood is located the board can be pulled into a bow, or a crook, can tie itself in a knot or can uniformly lose length. The peanut butter you are seeing is a heavy deposit of lignin, the "concrete" component of wood if you think of cellulose as rebar. You know pure cellulose in the form of cotton, strong but not stiff, lignin provides the stiff but is brittle. Softwoods support a lean by putting compression wood full of lignin under the lean to support it. Hardwoods throw cables over the topside of a lean and try to pull it back upright. Anyway, bringing this around the back stretch, RED is where they dump alot od reaction wood that would be unsafe if used as a spanning member like a joist or beam. We are paying the price for forestry practices that were all about rapid fiber production irrespective of quality.

[davidj]

One downside of the composite decking is it gets seriously hot in the Sun - not good if you want to walk on it with bare feet in Summer.  It also stains easily if you spill oil or grease on it - probably not an issue in the long term but it can look a mess if you mix beer, BBQing and a brand new shiny trex deck.

If you care about fire, take Don's advice and skip the composite unless it's specifically designed to be fire resistant.  Cedar and Redwood are allowed under Californias "Wildland Urban Interface" building code, but most composite decking materials aren't.

NM_shooter - did you mean 1x6x5/4 PT?

For the folks where Sun is a big issue, I'd guess a more solid stain would make a signficant difference with a wood deck.

We haven't finalized on our decking yet, but it's likely to be 2x6 con-heart or deck-heart redwood with a semi-solid or semi-transparent stain. I'm guessing it'll look pretty chewed up in a decade or so, but so will my plywood siding and cedar trim (both stained), and so everything will have the genuine "rustic" look!

[MaineRhino]

I used composite on my 20'x6' covered porch, 16" o/c. It does tend to show scuff marks from boots, and is darkening. However, we were looking for NO maintenance decking. It may be plastic, but it has a fake wood grain stamped into it, which works for me! 

[dug]

How wide are you going?  Mount the joists 16 O.C. and it will be nice and stiff.  I used 20" OC for my little landing, and it is plenty firm (but I only weigh 180#). 

I already have joists installed. They are 24 in. OC. NO going back. 

Thanks everyone for the info on the composites. Fire and heat are two things I am very concerned about and did not think of.  I am ruling that option out.

Don- Thanks for the excellent tutorial on wood and grain patterns. I always learn a lot from your posts!

I used composite on my 20'x6' covered porch, 16" o/c. It does tend to show scuff marks from boots, and is darkening. However, we were looking for NO maintenance decking. It may be plastic, but it has a fake wood grain stamped into it, which works for me! 

It does look good. Love your rails- I am trying to come up with something unique for that part as well.

[John_M]

If your joists are 24" OC...you could go to 12" OC if you had too....I would think that 24" OC would be touch to put decking on unless it was tongue and groove??

[JRR]

We used painted PT.  Behr paint.  Holding up pretty well.

If the 24" makes things too bouncy for you ... you could always go back and add a stringer/rib underneath ... a flat piece of deck stock centered between the joists.   If well screwed "up" ... will stiffen things nicely.

[i wish we were up north]

I thought this was interesting, using concrete pavers for decking.  Especially in the SW where a lot of moisture isn't a concern.  They cover the 4x4 joists on top with a water barrier between the pt wood and concrete pavers.

http://www.stepstoneinc.com/deck.htm  if you click on the brochure, it shows how the installation works.

I saw it done on the diy channel and thought it was interesting. 

[NM_Shooter]

Is it 5/4?  Maybe so... whatever the PT deck material is that they sell at Lowe's... I think you may be right.  For some reason I thought it was less than 1" thickness, but now that I reconsider I think I was wrong on that dimension.

JRR brings up a very good suggestion.  That will stiffen things up a bunch without the cost of additional joists. 

You could put down 2x PT material as the deck, but that is serious overkill!  It would be way cheaper to add in 2X the joists and stick with the 5/4 PT.

[dug]

If your joists are 24" OC...you could go to 12" OC if you had too....I would think that 24" OC would be touch to put decking on unless it was tongue and groove??

All this talk about 24 in. OC being inadequate got me to second guessing my decision , which isn't hard- it only happens about a dozed times a day.

I didn't think much about it when I was building it as my floor joist are 24 OC with 3/4 ply and they seem plenty stout to me. I'll just have to wait to find out how it handles a room full of people at the completion party, scheduled sometime in the indefinate future.

Also, My loft will be 1 & 1/2 decking on beams centered @ 32 inches. I was told that would be O.K.

As a test I laid a 2 by 6 across a couple of joist this morning and jumped on it for all my 170 #s were worth, I could detect no noticeable deflection. It felt as stiff as.... well- a board!
Not a very scientific test (I doubt it is DonP approved  ) but I think it will at least be safe.

Anyway, I assume all responsibilty for my actions.

[Don_P]

 If you look at things like trusses or some nice lumber you'll see a stamp with "MSR", machine stress rated.
I had an inspector balk at some perfectly clear poplar lumber I wanted to use. I went outside, threw a 2x12 flatways across a pair of blocks, the same way an MSR machine checks it, and drove my truck up on it... mopar stress rated  . He didn't buy it. I've got no problem with rational tests... that was one. How many people do you intend to get on one 2' section of 2x6? It works... Actually 5/4 @ 24" o.c. in SYP passes if perpendicular to the joists, cedar does not. I do frame on 16's but it isn't necessary.

[MountainDon]

FWIW, I built our gazebo floor with PT 2X6 SYP on approx 30-32" centers. Very solid feel.

The porch on the cabin was built using 5/4 PT SYP stock. The joists on this were spaced on 12" centers. I believe that is an good spacing for the 5/4 deck boards. It is very solid to walk on. The 5/4 is a much nicer floor appearance wise as well. Somehow the thinner boards are more pleasing visually than the 2x material. None of those 5/4 boards have tried to twist or cup, whereas a couple of the 2x in the gazebo have.


My wife was all for using the man made decking, but after illustrating how well it burns (scrap in campfire) she understood one of my reasons for not liking it. Didn't make much sense to attach that stuff to a cabin we were trying to make as fire safe as we could.

As for maintenance of the PT wood, I have not done anything to the gazebo wood and things are still fine at this point. I personally do not like using pigmented products on wood decks and porches as they require reapplications. I used a clear, non pigmented sealer from Thompson (?) on the cabin porch early this year. We'll see how it fares over the next year or two or...