roofing contractors the

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 18, 2010, 10:11:02 AM

Well, we knew when we bought this place, it was going to need a new roof soon, so we held our breath and saved money for the past year so that we could afford to put a standing seam metal roof on. In addition, we need some extra guttering, and we wanted to put in some solar tube lighting in the bathroom, hallway, and the laundry room. The chimney chase also needs to be rebuilt and new flashing put in. Well, I've had four quotes so far, and they're just all over the place.... they range from $9K all the way to $22K! One guy still hasn't gotten his written estimate back to me, but he hinted that it would be around $7K. It is comparing apples to apples because I've had each of them give me an estimate for exactly the same thing... the funny thing is the two local small companies have given me MUCH better estimates than bigger guys that go through and reroof whole neighborhoods everytime there is a bad hailstorm.

Also, both of the smaller companies have agreed that they could start the work in about two weeks and finish in about a day and a half. Why would it take one of the big companies two weeks to even start, and then two weeks to complete it once started?? The highest estimate actually came from the most well-known roofing company in the area, and it was JUST FOR THE ROOF AND GUTTERS!! He said they couldn't install the solar lights, lol. The others have all done item by item estimates. Any thoughts, recommendations? We will be getting some references from the smaller companies... the one guy actually did our home inspection when we bought the house, and I have plenty of references on work he's done, but he's the one I'm still waiting on a written estimate from.

glenn kangiser · March 18, 2010, 10:27:12 AM

Check refs as you planned to. Likely you will get better service and price from the smaller guys.

March 18, 2010, 11:15:42 AM

you may find that the smaller companies have very little work to do and are quite eager to get started and finished right away. They may be on the verge of shutting down and need that work. That being said, a delta of 200% between high and low should raise an eyebrow. I find when bidding out jobs that frequently the highest and lowest bidders do not understand the work being requested and the bid is not accurate. 7k sounds great until 2 weeks later they have your house in shambles and tell you they need 15k to finish or they walk because they did not bid it correctly. It does happen so try to ask some questions if the bid seems too light. If the quotes are all itemized, what is the big difference? Seems that their should be some consistency between them in terms of materials or labor...

As for why the bigger company that does entire neighborhoods is more expensive - it's likely because they do alot of insurance work and they have found that insurance companies will pay that rate. If they can stay busy with that, a homeowner job will take less priority (longer to start, longer to finish) and eat up more of their profit (more expensive). Personally, I prefer to deal with smaller local companies.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 18, 2010, 03:34:09 PM

I agree, Muldoon... the vast difference between the quotes is what throws me. The labor cost seems to be one of the biggies. Also, the cost of the roofing material is pretty varied. $:-\$

peternap · March 18, 2010, 04:27:07 PM

Any fool can put an asphalt shingle on.

It takes a special fool to do a good job on standing seam though, I'd take all the quotes and tell them all, you want references that you can look at.

That's a lot of money and if done right will last you the rest of your life. This is something where price is secondary and quality (Which only comes from experience) is first and foremost.

March 18, 2010, 05:13:57 PM

Peter, you're right about that. Wish that we'd had the money when my dad's company was slow on work... his work is always flawless. However, they're lined up with work from now to kingdom come. The guy who gave me the second cheapest quote has done a lot of standing seam roofs and offered me numerous references (plus I know where he lives and how to track him down if he screws up.

) The kid who did the estimate for the biggest company didn't seem to have a clue about the actual costs of the materials (thus the crazy estimate, and the fact that he mismeasured my house....) Still waiting on the last quote, and that guy was waiting on the correct flashing price for the solar tubes that they are installing. The one who came this morning stood me up three times before finally showing on time today... and he is the one who said that it would take them two weeks to install the roof. Doubt that he'll be getting the job.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 19, 2010, 10:34:25 AM

Anyone know what the going price is on standing seam metal roofing per square? One guy claimed it was $526/square, and another claimed it was $750 per square, but I know for a fact I can drive 40 minutes south of here and get it cheaper than either of them.

Don_P · March 19, 2010, 05:57:20 PM

The price of the pans is not the price of the materials, the trims and accessories are a big chunk. I just installed $900 of snow guards and have priced almost $3,000 worth for the next job.
Things that might be affecting the bids;
Guage and finish. Snap lock or mechanical (site formed from coils)? I can buy snap lock standing seam from a local manufacturer and install that or I can call in the pros that bring a coil of flat stock and a trailer mounted forming machine. They roll their seams on the roof, a true standing seam. I've had them on the job for weeks and they are far and away the most expensive. They are also the real deal. I'm getting ready to beat them out of a job on the next house even though I have been trying not to.
Roofing is high insurance work, make sure they are insured. Your house is easy pickings for a hospital lawyer.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 19, 2010, 10:45:07 PM

OK, here's the deal... we asked for quotes for standing seam metal roof. One of the contractors returned to me today with a quote for Tuff-rib metal roof by Gideon Steel Panel Co. out of OKC. Other websites tout it as the "economical" metal roof for residential and agricultural applications. However "economical" it might be, the quote was higher than another builder who is planning to use a standing seam roofing from Central States metal roofs. Any experience out there with tuff-rib vs. standing seam? I'm not sure why he quoted me a price for a roof that is not what I asked for... and he was really trying to sell it like it was better. His argument was that all the fasteners, etc. have the same lifetime warranty as the roof itself, but my thought was, "Well, why not put on the standing seam like I asked and you won't have any fasteners exposed to begin with?" Any thoughts?

March 19, 2010, 11:00:51 PM

He likely wants to make a higher profit. Standing seam should be more expensive from what I have seen. I like the rib sheeting just because it is easier and I have worked with it for years.

Don_P · March 19, 2010, 11:21:41 PM

One is a volkswagon and the other is an oldsmobile. An exposed fastener roof is going to fail much sooner than a standing seam. So the screw fails, they can send you screws all day long, the labor is what will get you on that warranty. They do make an oversize replacement screw... why?

I've done both and am not biased towards one or the other but they are not comparable.

I just had the metal company misquote a house that is supposed to be standing seam and the first quote was for a multirib roof. The materials quote was right about half. I gave a long pause when she told me the number, not sure if I had won the lotto or not. One specialized crimper on the last job cost me 2 days gross wages, everything about them is overpriced.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 19, 2010, 11:58:46 PM

Thanks. If I put a standing seam on this roof, theoretically short of a tornado destroying the whole house, it should pretty much last a lifetime? I should also note that the guy who quoted me on the tuff-rib when I asked for the standing seam, mentioned that he wanted us to be customers again in the future, so is this sort of a planned obsolescence on the materials or what?

He did offer a ten year warranty on the labor, though, probably because he'd be back every few years replacing all the dang screws.

glenn kangiser · March 20, 2010, 12:08:35 AM

I have put around 300 of those ribbed roofs on steel buildings but that is steel and your house is wood. I still would not expect many problems with wood but it would or could be more likely than with steel.

I started with steel buildings in about 1976 and have never had a problem with the buildings I built then - they still look good today- if you consider a steel building to look good that is.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 20, 2010, 12:13:57 AM

One more quick question... the guy who gave me the quote for the tuff-rib also wants to use Palisade synthetic underlayment vs. regular roofing felt. It is paper thin and has the texture of a poplin fabric on top and is slick on the back side. It is so thin, I can't imagine it providing any sound insulation whatsoever, or any insulation of any kind....anyone with any experience on this? Is it really any better than the conventional underlayment?

March 20, 2010, 07:24:52 AM

We used titanium synthetic underlayment on this job. We were on the job one day as the wind began to really rise. We tried to keep working but finally took a break and sat by a lee wall for a bit to decide what to do. Heard something coming apart up the road and then the sirens, the roof to our helper's apartment was landing in the street in large pieces. We decided we had enough fun for one day. I heard we were getting into the 70 mph gust range, not horrible but getting into high wind. I expected the roof to be stripped. we didn't lose any. Then the big snows hit and the roof iced and the valleys filled. It was over a month later when we could get up there. Several sliding snows, us beating on piles...zero loss, no leaks. I like tarpaper and am biased against synthetics, but I'm sold. I've been up on other roofs as many as seven times to repair the paper while waiting on the roofers.

MountainDon · March 20, 2010, 09:21:22 PM

The roofers we used a few years back used the Titanium UDL. They had the job half done when we had a big snowfall... biggest in years. There were no problems at all with the half that did not have the rib metal sheets down.

It doesn't matter how thick or thin something is. That Titanium stuff was next to impossible to tear. The texture makes it safer to walk on.

Around here a big difference in pricing is because of cheap Mexican labor vs other, better paid legal labor. There's also a difference in costs between the well established guys with brick and mortar offices, work buildings, etc. and the "all I have is a cell phone number" guys who may or may not be insured or bonded, or around when you might need the warranty backed up.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 21, 2010, 12:38:17 AM

Interesting. Thanks, fellas. We may go back and have the other roofer give us a quote using the synthetic underlayment.

n74tg · March 21, 2010, 09:35:05 AM

Tomato:

You mentioned one guy who "mismeasured" your roof. That statement caught my eye because back in the 1980's I measured houses and sold roofing jobs for a little while. Back then, and maybe even now, most everyone quoted a fairly comparable per square cost for reroofing. Where many of the roofers made their profit was in mismeasuring your roof on purpose.

Example: Her roof is really 14 squares of material, but we "measure" 16 squares and quote $100 per square to do the job, pretty much the same per square price our competition quotes. Unless she is an astute customer, she won't compare materials needed estimates. If she doesn't, and there were a lot who didn't, the roofer makes an extra $200 on that roof. The roofer told me on one job he hauled nine squares of shingles off the roof (and still had enough to do the job). As this shingle pattern and color was all the rage at the time, he just stored the extra in the back of his building and used them on the next job. Dishonest, of course.

Now, it will probably be harder to snooker you on metal roofing "quantity", as extra material from one job isn't (usually) immediately usable on the next job. However, there are other ways to snooker you. My next door neighbor just had their garage reroofed with metal. He told me they ordered 26 gauge material (thicker, heavier, more expensive) than the 29 gauge. But, clearly marked on the materials as they sat on the roofer's trailer, the wrapper said it was 29 gauge material. Did the owner EVER come out and check ANYTHING before the job, of course not. Did the owner ever actually look at how the roofing was being installed, or how the trim was being finished off at the corners, of course not. But, did the owner pitch a fit after the job was finished, and not to his liking...of course.

This neighbor routinely goes on vacation while his house is remodeled. I've seen him do it three times now. And in every instance, he is unhappy with the work quality when he returns. He's gone so far now as telling me, that in the future he needs to hire better quality workers, and check their references before hiring them, instead of just taking the recommendation of the store who sold him the material. He is still missing the point that he needs to get involved during the job.

Is it totally out of the question for you to do this new roof and solar install yourself?

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 21, 2010, 03:11:07 PM

n74tg, at six months pregnant, I don't see me reroofing the house.

However, we will be involved with anything that goes on the house. And I WILL check to see that we are getting what we are paying for and that all their end of the deal is held up. The one kid mismeasured our house by over 1000 sq. ft. Our house with garage is 24 squares. On average, the other roofers have all measured it at 28 squares "for waste". However, the one kid came up with 38 squares or some ridiculous number. When I told him the house was nowhere near that big, he argued with me that it was figuring on a 10% waste. I told him I don't work with wasteful people because there was no reason to waste 10%, let alone the amount he was quoting for. The guy who uses synthetic underlayment couldn't give me a straight answer on why what he was quoting for me was better than what I had asked him to quote. He also was practically begging me to give them the job. I like him personally, but it bothered me that he didn't give me the quote I asked for, which was standing seam. Guess the only way to make sure you really get what you want is to do it yourself....

$:-\$ But, since it needs done and we're not going to do it ourselves this time, I guess the only option is to be kind of hard-nosed about stuff.

Ndrmyr · March 21, 2010, 04:52:36 PM

I'm close to starting my metal roof (exposed fastener) and I would heartily recommend the synthetic felt (underlayment). Be sure to specify, however, button kap nails. The synthetic felt should not be stapled. It perforates the membrane and may void the warranty. The plastic Kaps seal the nail hole. I truly feel it is worth the extra money. At times technology provides a better solution. At times, it does not. IMHO, this is a time when it does.

March 22, 2010, 06:13:55 AM

Tomato:
Good to see that you're actively involved in the construction process, unlike my complaining naighbor (two posts above).

Not realizing you're 3 months from delivery, I have to agree with you, you don't need to be up on that roof for anything.

However, good luck with the remainder of your pregnancy and may you have a smooth, quick delivery.

Homegrown Tomatoes · March 22, 2010, 09:34:28 AM

Thanks! I will probably be putting in flooring along with my husband between now and the end of June, though, lol. This will be the third time I've had to install flooring while pregnant... I told my husband I'm never moving again! I have a love/hate relationship with remodeling after having done this in all three houses we've owned. Our roof isn't steep, and would be very simple if we were just doing shingles... but we want it to last forever so we don't have to worry about it again as long as we own this place, and we plan on sticking around this time so I don't mind the fact that we are spending more to get what we really want. I think we've picked our contractor, as soon as he emails me back the answers to a couple of questions I asked him over the weekend. If he's good, I plan on sending him to my mom's house to give her an estimate too, as she really needs a new roof.