Name That Gun!

Pox Eclipse · December 27, 2009, 11:27:58 PM

The following pictures are of a revolver that belongs to a friend of mine. I am pretty sure I know what it is, but let's see what you all say, then I'll tell you what I think it is:

RainDog · December 28, 2009, 01:17:10 AM

1860 Army

December 28, 2009, 02:51:18 AM

More specifically, an 1860 Army with the 1st Model Richards cartridge conversion, which was first designed in 1871. The serial number places its year of manufacture as 1871 (190000-198000 is the range for that year). As such, it may have been delivered from the factory with the cartridge "conversion" already done.

For comparison, see the first gun on this page: http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsAZ_conversions.htm

I'm not quite sure what to make of the finish. If that's factory original nickel, then it's worth a bit of money. If it's steel in the white and any original finish/patina/rust has been removed, then there goes half or more of the gun's value right there.

Here are some pictures of a factory nickel one: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=30269

harry51 · December 29, 2009, 11:54:19 PM

Ditto flatdarkmars' analysis. The rounded ejector rod tip and the screw at the bottom of the loading gate would argue that it isn't a super early conversion, but the cut-off serial number visible on the cylinder and the fact that the ejector rod extends past the barrel wedge slot argue that it is a percussion conversion, not originally delivered from the factory as a cartridge revolver.

The conversion device's serial number should be stamped on the ejector housing where it fits into the rammer channel on the underside of the barrel lug, and again next to it on the barrel lug itself.

Another fly in the identification ointment is that many conversions were done on the frontier by gunsmiths, copying the Richards design.

Is that a bit of copper plating showing through on the barrel lug, likely indicating that the gun is nickel plated and most is still there?

What is the provenance of this piece? There are a lot of fakes floating around out there, some very convincing.

RainDog · December 30, 2009, 09:13:25 AM

Old timey cowboy gun!

What do I win?

December 30, 2009, 03:54:58 PM

Quote from: harry51 on December 29, 2009, 11:54:19 PM

What is the provenance of this piece? There are a lot of fakes floating around out there, some very convincing.

It is a family heirloom, going back at least two generations to my friend's grandfather. Beyond that, I don't know.

RainDog · December 30, 2009, 04:18:22 PM

That was the answer?

Ripoff! I call foul!

gandalfthegrey · December 30, 2009, 06:02:45 PM

Colt Model 1860

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Army_Model_1860

harry51 · December 31, 2009, 12:05:33 AM

With a couple generations of provenance, an appraisal would be interesting. That might be a valuable item. Regardless of dollar value, it's seriously cool

!

December 31, 2009, 09:05:56 AM

I agree with everyone who correctly identified it as a Colt-Richards conversion of the 1860 Army. It features an engraving of a naval battle engraved on the cylinder, which is barely visible in the pictures. My friend thinks it is worth as much as $4,000 dollars, but hasn't had it appraised.

gandalfthegrey · December 31, 2009, 06:44:11 PM

If it will help you.... it has a serial number 196494 out of 200,000 made. I belive I can see a stamp on one side COLT 8 patent. Left side just in front of trigger guard.

MountainDon · December 31, 2009, 07:50:18 PM

For comparisons sake...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=152164139

harry51 · January 01, 2010, 01:26:41 AM

Interesting that the gun for sale on Gunbroker is only 40 serial numbers away from Pox' friend's gun, yet it has the type 2 Richards conversion on it instead of the type 1. It also has the flat ended ejector rod, which has been thought to be of early manufacture, with the rounded end design coming along a bit later. Also interesting that the loading gate of the conversion bears the last 4 of the pistol's serial number, which might argue that it was factory installed. If these old guns could only talk, what stories they could tell and what mysteries they could explain!

harry51 · January 01, 2010, 11:47:22 AM

Quote from: harry51 on January 01, 2010, 01:26:41 AM
Interesting that the gun for sale on Gunbroker is only 40 serial numbers away from Pox' friend's gun, yet it has the type 2 Richards conversion on it instead of the type 1. It also has the flat ended ejector rod, which has been thought to be of early manufacture, with the rounded end design coming along a bit later. Also interesting that the loading gate of the conversion bears the last 4 of the pistol's serial number, which might argue that it was factory installed. Too bad they don't show us the bottom of the barrel lug and the numbers stamped there. If these old guns could only talk, what stories they could tell and what mysteries they could explain!

If a person had $100-$300 worth of curiosity, a factory letter from Colt might confirm the original finish, if the conversion cylinder was factory installed, and what dealer it was sent to originally and his location, all of which could have a bearing on value.

G/L!