pitchforks?

[muldoon]

Whats this?  Constituents waking up? 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090731/pl_politico/25646_1

Alex Isenstadt Alex Isenstadt   – Fri Jul 31, 5:30 am ET

Screaming constituents, protesters dragged out by the cops, congressmen fearful for their safety — welcome to the new town-hall-style meeting, the once-staid forum that is rapidly turning into a house of horrors for members of Congress.

On the eve of the August recess, members are reporting meetings that have gone terribly awry, marked by angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior. In at least one case, a congressman has stopped holding town hall events because the situation has spiraled so far out of control.

"I had felt they would be pointless," Rep. Tim Bishop (D-N.Y.) told POLITICO, referring to his recent decision to temporarily suspend the events in his Long Island district. "There is no point in meeting with my constituents and [to] listen to them and have them listen to you if what is basically an unruly mob prevents you from having an intelligent conversation."

In Bishop's case, his decision came on the heels of a June 22 event he held in Setauket, N.Y., in which protesters dominated the meeting by shouting criticisms at the congressman for his positions on energy policy, health care and the bailout of the auto industry.

Within an hour of the disruption, police were called in to escort the 59-year-old Democrat — who has held more than 100 town hall meetings since he was elected in 2002 — to his car safely.

"I have no problem with someone disagreeing with positions I hold," Bishop said, noting that, for the time being, he was using other platforms to communicate with his constituents. "But I also believe no one is served if you can't talk through differences."

Bishop isn't the only one confronted by boiling anger and rising incivility. At a health care town hall event in Syracuse, N.Y., earlier this month, police were called in to restore order, and at least one heckler was taken away by local police. Close to 100 sign-carrying protesters greeted Rep. Allen Boyd (D-Fla.) at a late June community college small-business development forum in Panama City, Fla. Last week, Danville, Va., anti-tax tea party activists claimed they were "refused an opportunity" to ask Rep. Thomas Perriello (D-Va.) a question at a town hall event and instructed by a plainclothes police officer to leave the property after they attempted to hold up protest signs.

The targets in most cases are House Democrats, who over the past few months have tackled controversial legislation including a $787 billion economic stimulus package, a landmark energy proposal and an overhaul of the nation's health care system.

Democrats, acknowledging the increasing unruliness of the town-hall-style events, say the hot-button issues they are taking on have a lot to do with it.

"I think it's just the fact that we are dealing with some of the most important public policy issues in a generation," said Rep. Bruce Braley (D-Iowa), who was confronted by a protester angry about his position on health care reform at a town hall event several weeks ago.

"I think in general what is going on is we are tackling issues that have been ignored for a long time, and I think that is disruptive to a lot of people," said Bishop, a four-term congressman. "We are trying, one by one, to deal with a set of issues that can't be ignored, and I think that's unsettling to a lot of people."

Freshman Rep. Dan Maffei (D-N.Y.), whose event at a Syracuse middle school was disrupted, said that he still planned to hold additional town halls but that he was also thinking about other options.

"I think you've got to communicate through a variety of different ways. You should do the telephone town hall meetings. You should do the town hall meetings. You should do the smaller group meetings," said Maffei. "It's important to do things in a variety of ways, so you don't have one mode of communication."

"You're going to have people of varying views, and in this case, you've got the two extremes who were the most vocal," Maffei said of the flare-up at his July 12 event.

On Tuesday, Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), who handles incumbent retention duties for House Democrats in addition to chairing the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, met with freshman members to discuss their plans for the month long August recess. While the specific issue of town hall protesters never came up, according to sources familiar with the meeting, he urged them not to back away from opponents.

"He said, 'Go on offense. Stay on the offense. It's really important that your constituents hear directly from you. You shouldn't let a day go by [that] your constituents don't hear from you,'" said one House Democratic leadership aide familiar with the meeting.

Some members profess to enjoy the give-and-take of the town halls, even if lately it's become more take than give.

"Town halls are a favorite part of my job," said Rep. Russ Carnahan (D-Mo.), a third-term congressman from St. Louis who noted that a "handful" of disruptions had taken place at his meetings. "It's what I do. It's what I will continue to do."

"People have gotten fired up and all that, but I think that's what makes town halls fun," said Perriello, a freshman who is among the most vulnerable Democrats in 2010. "I think that most of the time when we get out there, it's a good chance for people to vent and offer their thoughts. It's been good."

"I enjoy it, and people have a chance to speak their mind," he said.

Both Carnahan and Perriello said they were plunging forward with plans to hold more town hall meetings.

Republicans, with an eye toward 2010, are keeping close track of the climate at Democratic events.

"We've seen Russ Carnahan, we've seen Tim Bishop, we've seen some other people face some very different crowds back home," said National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Pete Sessions (R-Texas). "The days of you having a town hall meeting where maybe 15 or 20 of your friends show up — they're over. You've now got real people who are showing up — and that's going to be a factor."

Asked later how or whether the GOP would use the confrontations against Democrats, Sessions responded: "Wait till next year."

But Democrats are quick to point out they're not the only ones facing hostile audiences. They single out Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del.), who found himself in a confrontation earlier this month with a "birther" protester, and insist that Republicans face a backlash of their own if it appears the party is too closely aligned with tea party activists or other conservative-oriented protesters.

"It's a risk that they align themselves with such a small minority in the party," said Brian Smoot, who served as political director at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in the past election cycle. "They risk alienating moderates."

here is a post I made last October with some thoughts on this coming about. 

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5492.0

as we inch closer to this situation as a real possibility, I'm starting to get a gnawing feeling my my stomach thinking about it.    gonna be a bumpy ride. 

Were basicaly down to a lesser of two evils right now.  I am voting Obama.  Let me be clear, I believe him to be the worse choice.  I believe his concepts of wealth re-distribution are disastrous, and what I see looming on the horizon is even worse.  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122477680834462659.html  for one. 

I am voting Obama because I am SICK and TIRED of this slow decline, the sleeping populace who do not care that they are being robbed, that their rights are being eroded, and that the government have simply taken by force large parts of commerce and everything else now.  McCaine to me signifies all of that slow crash, creeping to collapse, lying all the way, good talk and no action, bull that we have come to see for years.

I DO NOT believe Obama will fix it, in fact I believe he will make things much worse in a way.  And in doing so he will anger the people enough that they will WAKE UP and demand answers.  In fact, some may wake up and pick up the torches and pitchforks, and that has its place as well to some extent. 

The fact is that a recession, (only it now looks more like global depression due to these ridiculous policies) is the cure for many things.  I say bring it on, let's try our hand at full on socialism, lets run that deficit some more.  We have already added some 3 trillion in the last 2 months on top of the 10 trillion it was.  Let's go to the moon; and when our foreign creditors say no mas - well, lets do what they are planning.  Seize the 401ks, Seize the banks, tax the people to pay our way out of this.  Garnish wages, sieze personal assets and auction them, whatever it takes to keep Amerika alive.  Let them do it. 

Then we will see some people waking up, and after that do we get on the course to correcting this nightmare. 

[rwanders]

To some extent, I agree with you----" It's easier to cure pneumonia then a common cold." 

[ScottA]

I think it's getting close to that point muldoon. I expect this winter and especially next spring to be very interesting times.

[Virginia Gent]

Hopefully, things can be fixed without any due-violence. I'm just starting in my life and I don't want the next 10+ years to be marked by tyranny, depression, & civil war. I have plans for my life and Imma be pissed off if I have to put my life on hold because Politicians are so stupid and self-serving that they can't put 2-&-2 together and realize they are pissing off the American population.

[peternap]

Don't worry about it Gent. About 20 years ago, I told my son who was 12 at the time, that his life would be different than mine was. It has been. As long as he knows how to defend himself and stay one step ahead of the dark side, he'll be OK.

So will you !

Violence is escalating in this country. It will get worse.

But.... if you have some vision of armed patriots standing toe to toe with Government troops, you're wrong.

Turn the clock back to 1969 to about 78. Do a little research on the Weathermen, Abbie Hoffman, The Black Panthers, MOVE, Etc. You'll get an idea of what an American version of a gorilla war is.

Life goes on!

[glenn kangiser]

The California septic system fiasco with politicians setting up their buddies and their own investments with forced $45000 treatement systems turned near violent with the politicians/crooked public servants having to get protection to safely get out of some towns.  Stuff was thrown at them I heard.

The people are getting their fill and waking up...slowly.  They have near had enough.

[Aunt Raven]

When the noisy town meetings turn into "riots" the National Guard and the Army can now be legally called on to "restore order" with Martial law. Those laws got quietly passed under Bush, and FEMA can invoke them.  Although as incompetent as FEMA proved after Hurricane Katrina, maybe we don't have much to worry about. . .

[rick91351]

Sorry Aunt Raven  but I remember Kent State very, very well.  I remember the National Guards called out all over the south when Dr. King started marching.  Also history shows way before Bush and FEMA was even born or even thought of they were using troops on American people.  Look up the Bonus Army  They turned the troops loose on veterans and their families protesting when thing started to get unruly.  They were asking to cash in their Service Certificates that were not due to mature in 1945.  However because of the depression and no work they needed the money so they protested asking to cash their certificates in early.  They met in Washington DC and were set upon by troops led by George Patton and Douglas MacAuther when things got tense.  Unions and there members have always been good targets for the army.   Look up the Great Railroad Strike of 1922.  The miners strike at Cripple Creek 1884 and Colorado Labor Wars.  Interesting there in 1884 the state militia was actually called out in support of the Cripple Creek Miners.  Striking Idaho miners were even rounded up and they were actually held up at Coeur d'Alene, Idaho mining district by black army troops as an insult.

Please don't think the government ever, ever needed Bush and FEMA's authority for anything when it comes to martial law.  The only thing we have on our side is that the citizen solders are us and our neighbors.  God help us if it ever comes to that.

rlr   

[glenn kangiser]

When the noisy town meetings turn into "riots" the National Guard and the Army can now be legally called on to "restore order" with Martial law. Those laws got quietly passed under Bush, and FEMA can invoke them.  Although as incompetent as FEMA proved after Hurricane Katrina, maybe we don't have much to worry about. . .

Aunt Raven.  to the forum.  Incompetence at Katrina?  Or was it part of the plan? 

Have you ever seen people dispersed as far and wide as the Katrina blacks were without it being part of a plan?

Looks to me that someone in NOLA wanted to do their version of cleanming up the town.

I think we may have more to worry about - a dual US/Israeli citizen in control of Fema /DHS - Allegiance to the Constitution and the US cannot be confirmed as he has two masters.

[glenn kangiser]

I agree, Rick.  Our neighbors feel the same.

[Aunt Raven]

I have recently come across a well-researched book ( facts in it on public record ) with a couple chapters (on Fed Reserve and Bretton Woods and United Nations) quite relevant to present drift of discussion. I think the last couple posters might like it.  It's called "Hope of the Wicked" by Ted Flynn.

This book was published a few years ago, but is prescient and alarmingly appropos when read at this time of economic upheaval, pandemic scares, big pharma, Monsanto "frankenfoods" and  social engineering in schools and media. You can get second-hand copies fairly cheaply on-line.  A few years ago I would have laughed and called this "conspiracy" theory for people wearing tin-foil hats, --except for a wierd thing I saw in 1986 near Westcliffe, CO:  The blue summer sky was patterned with clouds in square waffle-grid from horizon to horizon: a perfect cloud lattice pattern as far as the eye could see.  I couldn't believe my eyes,  but several locals told me this happened regularly; they suspected at least one of the beautiful Sangre de Christo mountains was hollow, and it was a center for "Gumment" weather control experiments.

When I flipped through the book "Hope of the Wicked" and saw the chapter about HAARP, I realized it explained what I had seen a score years before.  On  the other stuff I have some expertise on, I found the book is accurate; and so I give fair credence to the stuff I don't know about...the author seems to have done his homework and has the footnotes to prove it. 

Keep your eye on rapidly changing laws, educational trends, in the UK, and even more sinisterly, laws and directives announced by the faceless boring bureaucrats of the EU. [One way to sneak evil social engineering in is to make laws, treaties, and directives in boring gobbledegook suit-speak so that freedoms are eroded in the name of political correctness, equality, efficiency, security, and economy which the average Joe can' understand, or else it puts him to sleep.] Why?  The UN and EU proponents of globalism and the new world order want massive worldwide depopulation, especially in 3rd world countries. A docile, dumbed-down, unhealthy (obese!) populace of celebrity-worshiping young people with trivial values gained from I-pods, face-book, and sports, --and with no work or survival skills-- is easier to control, has less motivation to resist the subtle forces which manipulate them toward extinction.   

Allowing for differences of political system, I notice over the years that the USA follows the UK's sociological trends a short time later.  They're about to lift the laws making assisted suicide illegal in England.  This is seen as "allowing compassionate euthanasia" however in the morning Telegraph ( you can read online) I notice in the business section it is mentioned in passing that that 25% of annual national budget is paid out in Social security. It would greatly reduce the national debt if they could find (kind, compassionate) ways of getting rid of elderly and handicapped pensioners when they no longer have "quality of life"  (humm, who decides what this highly subjective state means ? Young healthy doctors and politicians?) Like the movie said, "follow the money." 

[glenn kangiser]

You are right on with that, Aunt Raven.  I understand the assisted death is coming in the White House Residents health care plan.

I couldn't have said it better.

The book sounds interesting.  Seems quite a few were clued in on what was to take place now - such as Orwell and others ...

[muldoon]

the two lessons I took away from the hurricanes are

1) dont discount the good in people.  yeah, they only show the troublemakers on tv, and yes there are some.  But 99% of people are helpful and respectful of each other. 

2) The threat of police "quarantine" or military imposition of martial law is bullshit.  especially given the landmass involved in the united states.  State police, local police, national guard - and resources from like 5 states were pulled into New Orleans and could not contain one city.  There is no way martial law could be enacted to control the country. 

The bottom line is that I had new-found hope and respect for this country, much the same feeling I have when I watch these people expressing the discontent with their elected representatives. 

-- which brings me back to the subject of this post. 

austin had some unkind words for their rep, Lloyd Dogget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8UjY3YDlwA

Arlen Specter - getting booed off the stage when he claimed the healthcare "had to be done fast"  and no one could read the 1000 page bill  --notice the security guards in place. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Bpshk5nX0

[Virginia Gent]

I agree with point 1 Muldoon. I lived in Miami for Hurricane Andrew and while our neighborhood escaped the damage that a lot took, we still had two houses that were destroyed, both by trees in their yards. The people of our neighborhood shared our water and food supplies with these people and one family whose children had grown up, shared their spare bedrooms (They had the biggest house on the block) with these people giving them a place to sleep. Also there was a lot of looting going on so a bunch of people in the neighborhood, my father included, grabbed their guns and would walk around with them when they were helping. They even shared watch duties over these people's houses to make sure no one looted at night. Really showed how compassionate people can be and whenever I get down about people in general, I just think about that and it lifts my spirits.

[ScottA]

Good point muldoon but here's the thing...remember star wars?

Fear will keep the local systems in line...fear of this battle station.

They will/are use fear to keep the people in line.

[rick91351]

I agree 100% with you muldoon.  Any hope of national lock down would be futile.  They however would use a location to show off just what they can do.  This would be an attempt try to instill fear into people.  This brings up Scott's reply which is a very interesting point using fear to keep people in check.  Funny it was FDR who voiced the words 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself' in his first inaugural address.  I have heard many compare the current administration with that of FDR.           
   
Scott: I agree fear is a very intimidating.  Fear of loosing loved ones, fear of loosing ones life.  Fear of getting hurt, fear of hurting.  Fear is so intimidating often times we are willing to give up liberty and freedom just for the hollow promise we wont have to live with that intimation over our heads.

James Madison in a speech to the Virginia Convention in 1788 stated - I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

rlr 


   

[Aunt Raven]

It is a media non-event in the USA, but keep an eye via internet on how the Irish are being bullied by their Politicians and media to vote on October 2  for the Libson Treaty (= EU constitution for a totalitarian "United States of Europe")

Americans do not think ratification of the Lisbon Treaty will affect them--if they think about it at all.  Wrong, big-time:  EU under the Lisbon Treaty will aversely affect all American international dealings in treaties, trade, manufacturing, and econonomics.  Its carrot/stick regulations and sanctions will accelerate ongoing erosion of Americans' Constitutional rights.