Refuse Mandatory Injections

[glenn kangiser]

We are only breeders for the production of subjects to be used by the military/government military industrial complex as needed.  Destroying our economy and taking jobs away insures plenty of people at the ends of their ropes and thus willing volunteers for the military.

They are often used as guinea pigs as are the US population at large.

There are plenty more where they came from.  The ships are an isolated testing ground to prove the effectiveness of their vaccine.

I agree that the article has some flaws.  They also can assume that most of the troops or affected persons will recover from the disability.  Possible they just want to get real numbers as to the effectiveness of their weapon. 

I don't have ALL of the answers.

[Pox Eclipse]

1) Unnamed US Navy vessel put to sea in April with 347 man crew.

2) Entire crew was vaccinated with H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine shortly after they put to sea.

I call baloney.  There was no swine flu vaccine in April.

[Sassy]

I posted this article a few months ago, worth reading about the CDC research...   http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/jan1404hybrids.html  or go to http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/general/pandemic_nonsense:_flying_pig_flu_20090428118/ for more sources...  

CDC to mix avian, human flu viruses in pandemic study  (just a portion of article - go to link for entire article)

Robert Roos * News Editor

Jan 14, 2004 (CIDRAP News) – One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world.

That could happen, scientists predict, if someone who is already infected with an ordinary flu virus contracts the avian virus at the same time. The avian virus has already caused at least 48 confirmed human illness cases in Asia, of which 35 have been fatal. The virus has shown little ability to spread from person to person, but the fear is that a hybrid could combine the killing power of the avian virus with the transmissibility of human flu viruses.

Now, rather than waiting to see if nature spawns such a hybrid, US scientists are planning to try to breed one themselves—in the name of preparedness.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will soon launch experiments designed to combine the H5N1 virus and human flu viruses and then see how the resulting hybrids affect animals. The goal is to assess the chances that such a "reassortant" virus will emerge and how dangerous it might be.

CDC officials confirmed the plans for the research as described recently in media reports, particularly in a Canadian Press (CP) story.

You won't be getting me or most of my co-workers (particularly the nurses) to take the H1N1 vaccine.  Many of those same nurses work at other hospitals & say that their co-workers won't be getting the vaccine.  We see too many people come in to the ER sicker than a dog after receiving the regular flu shots, let alone the H1N1 vaccine!  The patient's classic "haven't got a clue" comment "I just got the flu shot."

[emcvay]

First, I will not get the H1N1 shot but that's becuase I don't get any Flu shots and have been Flu free for nearly 20 years.  I did, however, take them when in the Marine Corps (mandatory) but also never got the Flu then either.

Second, one of my employees got the shot and is now sick with the flu.  Nice.

Third, the last time the Government did this they were wrong, killed many people and made even more sick.  Nice.

Lastly, I just don't trust the bastards.

[glenn kangiser]

At least you have a good attitude about it.

Sassy is an RN at the VA.

[emcvay]

At least you have a good attitude about it.

Sassy is an RN at the VA.

Thanks Sassy for taking care of Veterans. It's a tough job I'm sure.

Me?  I'm a veteran and refuse to go to the VA any longer (sorry Sassy).  It's government bureaucracy at it's best from what I've seen and I got so tired of it I refuse to return.  I get TEN TIMES better care from Civilian doctors and hospitals.

No offense Sassy, I know there are good people at the VA (my wifes Uncle works there too) but I just refuse to be subjected to Government Bureaucracy any longer.

[Pox Eclipse]

Isn't it great that you have the freedom to choose between private health care and a public option?  I am  amazed that the private system hasn't folded because of the unfair competition from the VA.

[Sassy]

Yep, there's a lot of bureaucracy & getting worse.  A lot of the Vets get frustrated.  I think we give pretty good care in the ER but there are so many clinical guidelines for the docs to follow - if you have diabetes you have to be on these medications, if you have high blood pressure, the docs are required to put you on other meds, etc etc.  If they don't follow those guidelines the docs get talked to & the hospital doesn't get as much money allotted to them - each VA is graded by these guidelines.  There are also "reminders" that mostly the nurses are responsible for - like did you do your FOBT test (fecal occult blood test) or colonoscopy, did you get all your vaccinations, are you depressed or suicidal, did you experience "military sexual harrassment" - the list goes on & on - in some ways it is good, but in other ways, it is very intrusive.  If the patient doesn't want to takes the meds, or get the vaccines or answer the questions, he is "non-compliant."  In trying to give everyone the same quality of care, they've gone overboard in some respects.

Now, in ER, the 1st question we have to ask when we triage someone is if they are suicidal or homicidal.   Yes, there are a lot of active military & veterans who are attempting or have committed suicide, there are also a lot of them with PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder) & depression.  A lot with anger issues (after all, they were taught to fight & kill the enemy - it's not always easy to shut that off, especially after doing or being forced to do 2,3 & sometimes 4 tours).  It's sad to see ruined lives...  especially when they come back after putting their lives on the line & see that our gov't is not on the up & up & there's questions as to whether we should really be over there.  

It's not the politicians sons & daughters who are going to war, it's the little guy that's the pawn - the criminal leaders need to be put in front of a firing squad.  

[emcvay]

Yep, there's a lot of bureaucracy & getting worse.  A lot of the Vets get frustrated.  I think we give pretty good care in the ER but there are so many clinical guidelines for the docs to follow - if you have diabetes you have to be on these medications, if you have high blood pressure, the docs are required to put you on other meds, etc etc.  If they don't follow those guidelines the docs get talked to & the hospital doesn't get as much money allotted to them - each VA is graded by these guidelines.  There are also "reminders" that mostly the nurses are responsible for - like did you do your FOBT test (fecal occult blood test) or colonoscopy, did you get all your vaccinations, are you depressed or suicidal, did you experience "military sexual harrassment" - the list goes on & on - in some ways it is good, but in other ways, it is very intrusive.  If the patient doesn't want to takes the meds, or get the vaccines or answer the questions, he is "non-compliant."  In trying to give everyone the same quality of care, they've gone overboard in some respects.

Now, in ER, the 1st question we have to ask when we triage someone is if they are suicidal or homicidal.   Yes, there are a lot of active military & veterans who are attempting or have committed suicide, there are also a lot of them with PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder) & depression.  A lot with anger issues (after all, they were taught to fight & kill the enemy - it's not always easy to shut that off, especially after doing or being forced to do 2,3 & sometimes 4 tours).  It's sad to see ruined lives...  especially when they come back after putting their lives on the line & see that our gov't is not on the up & up & there's questions as to whether we should really be over there.  

It's not the politicians sons & daughters who are going to war, it's the little guy that's the pawn - the criminal leaders need to be put in front of a firing squad.  

'tis amazing -- you ought to go on Glenn Beck's show and tell that to the world.

Me?  No thanks!  I'll take the Civilian sector.

As for 'private' health care, I won't argue that it needs improvement.  Heck, it needs a LOT of work -- but I'll be damned if I support the idiotic notion that the Government ought to be the ones running it.  Plain stupid nonsense.

it's fixable as it is, but it requires those whining and crying and screaming for Government/Public Health Care to shut up and sit down so those of us who actually give a damn (socialists don't give a damn, that's why they want someone else to fix the problem) to get in there and fix things.

No. 1 -- TORT Reform
No. 2 -- Get rid of Government forced Employer benifits
No. 3 -- Get rid of 'pre-pay' health care or start 'Health Insurance' something we DON'T currently have.

Ever wonder why you can buy a MILLION dollars worth of life insurance for 1/10 or 1/20th of the cost of Health Care WHEN YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO DIE and they do to?

People, think about the above statement for a little.  And don't tell me it's the greedy pigs at the top of the system -- the same type of people run the FAR FAR cheaper life insurance companies -- often the same companies....but you pay how much more?   Come on!

Car insurance is also far cheaper -- why?  You might not ever have a car accident. 

[Sassy]

Doctors have to practice "defensive medicine."  That means that they have to order every test known to man in order to protect themselves from lawsuits.  Yes, we do need tort reform.  Doctors can't be doctors anymore - they used to do a physical assessment & history to find out what was going on with the patient.  Now, there are so many tests, machines, etc to diagnose - which is good in ways but also not necessary in many cases.  But you don't do a test & it comes back that the patient has what the test would have shown or worse dies...  so that means EVERYONE has to do these tests...  all the exposure to radiation, all the blood tests...  then the chemo & the vaccines...  I could go on & on.  I used to recommend friends go into nursing...  but lately, I'm changing my mind about that.  I'm glad I'm about to retire - who knows what things will be like if they force this healthcare fiasco through. 

This forced vaccinations of healthcare workers has everyone up in arms...  if they want to see a fight - wait 'til all of them walk out on the job...  then whose gonna take care of the people?

[glenn kangiser]

Isn't it great that you have the freedom to choose between private health care and a public option?  I am  amazed that the private system hasn't folded because of the unfair competition from the VA.

Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

[emcvay]

Isn't it great that you have the freedom to choose between private health care and a public option?  I am  amazed that the private system hasn't folded because of the unfair competition from the VA.

Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

Actually, it is Obama's intention to get rid of Private Health Care of any sort.  he's said it as plainly as that.

The Socialists have always known that they can convince you to let them take care of you, it was just a matter of time and at the moment they've got less then 50% (something like 41% now) support in polls but they don't care.  Why?  becuase the final nail in the coffin in the American system is to get Government run health care.  Then the constitution gets thrown out the window and it's United Socialist States of America.

All thanks to the morons who think Uncle Sam should take care of them and don't worry he will

[glenn kangiser]

I don't want him to take care of me and I will not allow him to take care of me. 

I nearly blew a gasket when the county lady in town told me that if the grid runs through here I had to attach to it.  Solar power is not reliable enough.  She said if I wouldn't take care of myself the State of California would take care of me.  Under my breath I said, "Over my dead body."

Funny - the grid goes down here every couple of months.  I hardly ever have a problem and then I know why if I do.

Since I was just checking for someone else I didn't want to start a riot.  I like to fly under the radar.

[emcvay]

I don't want him to take care of me and I will not allow him to take care of me. 

I nearly blew a gasket when the county lady in town told me that if the grid runs through here I had to attach to it.  Solar power is not reliable enough.  She said if I wouldn't take care of myself the State of California would take care of me.  Under my breath I said, "Over my dead body."

Funny - the grid goes down here every couple of months.  I hardly ever have a problem and then I know why if I do.

Since I was just checking for someone else I didn't want to start a riot.  I like to fly under the radar.

Typical Socialist.

You should have told her:  "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" and explained that Liberty was the freedom to fail so piss off!

[glenn kangiser]

I know I should have but, I just went out and did what I wanted to anyway.

Isn't it funny how the parasites urge you to do things that will generate more cash just to support their sucking on the teat of the working class for their entire lifetime.  Just more welfare recipients.

[Pox Eclipse]

Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

This is incorrect.  The public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.  All others who choose the public option will pay a premium, just as you do for private health insurance. If you don't choose the public option, you don't pay the premium.  It has been stressed over and over that the public option will be self sustaining, with no increase to the deficit.  You may not believe that, but it is incorrect to claim that it was designed as free healthcare for everyone, paid for by taxes.  That is just wrong.

[emcvay]

Seems the new healthcare plan is to eliminate that option.  My understanding is that all must participate -mandatory- and that it will be added to the taxes and collected by the IRS.

This is incorrect.  The public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.  All others who choose the public option will pay a premium, just as you do for private health insurance. If you don't choose the public option, you don't pay the premium.  It has been stressed over and over that the public option will be self sustaining, with no increase to the deficit.  You may not believe that, but it is incorrect to claim that it was designed as free healthcare for everyone, paid for by taxes.  That is just wrong.

*chuckle*  I have a bridge I'd like to sell you too.

President Obama has clearly stated that he wants to institute a single payer health care system run by the government and funded by taxes.  Period.  He also explains that since that is too hard to convince the American people to do that it's better to start with something less intrusive and work towards the single payer system.  I'll post links to this shortly.

In truth, any government program will involve Medicaid and Medicare which are both "Free" to those who did not pay enough in taxes to pay for their care.  They are tax payer funded and going broke fast.  It's Government care at it's finest -- bankrupt.

And to assume that Mr. Obama wouldn't dare force you to use his Government/Public Option is about as naive as thinking that my Uncle in Nairobi has 20 million dollars and if you send me $5000 today I'll send you the $20 million tomorrow -- just as soon as I cash the check from you of course becuase I need it to escape the federalies before they take all the money, but you can have half if you just send the 5 grand today -- I promise.

You are naive and a dreamer -- perhaps maybe only 17 too.  The reality is that this is a power grab and nothing more.  After all, there are plenty of ways to fix the system without making it a government system -- but there's only ONE WAY to give health coverage to the poor who can't afford to pay for it and that's by taking from the haves and giving to the have nots.  And in case you were educated here in America that's not the American way.  It's the Russian/Chinese/Fascist German/Marxist Cuban/Socialist way....you know, the way that always fails.

Please, read Atlas Shrugged and then perhaps the Constitution and Common Sense and then lets talk again.
Erik

[emcvay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

What say you?  This makes it clear.

Argument over.

[ScottA]

The public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.

Perhaps taxes is the wrong word. Extortion might be a better word since they claim it's not a tax but you'll still be forced to pay it.

[emcvay]

The public option proposed by the president is not supported by taxes, with the exception of the truly destitute.

Perhaps taxes is the wrong word. Extortion might be a better word since they claim it's not a tax but you'll still be forced to pay it.

Anything that you have to pay is a tax.  A dog is a dog no matter how much you try to dress it up like a person.

It's funny though how those in favor or Government intrusion in their lives and the loss of Liberty always try to find new and creative ways to define things like 'tax'.  For example, they claim that fee for registering your car is not a tax however, just like 'official' taxes the fee goes to support Government.  How is it not a tax?

Heck, why register for that matter?  Aren't in the land of the free and the home of the brave and aren't we supposed to be innocent until proven guilty?

I vote for voluntary registration of your vehicle -- as well as voluntary insurance.

Oh by the way, in my world if you have an accident criminal proceedings would ensue and if found 'guilty' (at fault) then you'd pay for damages out of your own pocket and if that means you go bankrupt oh well.

You see, I won't force you to buy insurance but you damn sure better not have an accident that's your fault   That's the way it ought to be and oh, then insurance would be MUCH cheaper!

[Pox Eclipse]

Please, read Atlas Shrugged and then perhaps the Constitution and Common Sense and then lets talk again.
Erik

I've read Atlas Shrugged, and Von Mises as well. Both are self-indulgent mental masturbation with no relevence to a society of 300 million.  By the way, I'm 55 years old, so you can keep your smug insults to yourself.  Anybody who is so easily taken in by Glenn Beck clearly lacks the critical thinking skills to participate in adult debate. 

[rwanders]

This life is not without risk----no one has ever made it out of here alive yet---not even Jesus was able to do that. We do not get to choose, or avoid, all that we will face.

You pays your money and takes your chances----Good luck to all of you!

Conspiracy enthusiasts-----I am sure you are right----someone or something is out to get you and sooner or later they will succeed and you can go to your fate joyously yelling; "I was right, I told you so".

I will meet my fate also but, I won't look for it behind every tree.

[emcvay]

Please, read Atlas Shrugged and then perhaps the Constitution and Common Sense and then lets talk again.
Erik

I've read Atlas Shrugged, and Von Mises as well. Both are self-indulgent mental masturbation with no relevence to a society of 300 million.  By the way, I'm 55 years old, so you can keep your smug insults to yourself.  Anybody who is so easily taken in by Glenn Beck clearly lacks the critical thinking skills to participate in adult debate. 

The very fact that this upsets you and causes you to react the way you did here proves my point.

Atlas is very relevant to a population of 300 million, it's only progressives etc who would argue otherwise.

As for Beck, he's not been proven wrong on anything other then perhaps semantics so just what are you saying? 

Critical thinking?  Seriously, is that all you've got to say in response to Obama's own words?  The argument is over whether you are 55 or 15.  As for Critical thinking, there are critical thinkers who are communists, fascists, capitalists and indeed every other political ideology or belief.  It's a lack of critical thinking that suggests one can't think critically because they suggest maybe you are too young to understand.

On the other hand, the very fact that you are 55 and still believe these things suggests either that you don't think critically, or intentionally espouse the mantra of the socialist/marxist/progressive left.

Have you read Common Sense?  (and I'm talking about THE Common Sense and not Becks by the way) The Constitution?  Do you except that all Socialist nations have failed?

The fact is big government breeds big government and does not improve what it takes over.  Ever.

As for the Conspiracy types -- sorry, some are just so far out there.  But then again, we all are to some degree or another.

After all, those who poo poo the 911 truthers are often the very same that accuse Bush of many horrible things -- why?  becuase you like to be on one side or another.  It's human nature.

I choose to be on the American side

[Pox Eclipse]

The fact is big government breeds big government and does not improve what it takes over.  Ever.

The US Military. The Interstate Highway system.  The Apollo Missions.  The National Parks System.  I could go on and on, but I think four is enough to utterly destroy your unfounded statement.  Period.

Do you except that all Socialist nations have failed?

If you are talking about countries with universal health care, you are woefully misinformed.  France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada; they all have government managed health care.  Are they socialist countries?  Have they failed?

And as for pure socialism, I think China would be amused by the rumors of its demise.

[emcvay]

The fact is big government breeds big government and does not improve what it takes over.  Ever.

The US Military. The Interstate Highway system.  The Apollo Missions.  The National Parks System.  I could go on and on, but I think four is enough to utterly destroy your unfounded statement.  Period.

Do you except that all Socialist nations have failed?

If you are talking about countries with universal health care, you are woefully misinformed.  France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Canada; they all have government managed health care.  Are they socialist countries?  Have they failed?

And as for pure socialism, I think China would be amused by the rumors of its demise.

While the military was buying up $500 hammers and $500 toilet seats and adopting 'Affirmative Action' and 'Equal Opportunity' policy I'm not sure you want to make that statement.  Would I want a private military?  No.  I do beleive this is a proper function of Government -- smaller Government -- and it can be done right and improved.  And I've got nearly 9 years of active military service in two branches.  But even the left would agree that the post Vietnam Military had many issues -- it's not without it's problems.

However, the military IS something that is Constitutional and clearly called for and funded in accordance with the Constitution.  So at least there is that and it can improve.

The Interstate Highway system was indeed one heck of a program and while there were issues with it I'd have to say you got me there for the most part.  One point on that one though is that the bill to put it into action was only a few pages (27 maybe?) versus the idiotic 'Big Government' 1000+ page bills of today.  So while you may have a point here, it's not really comparing apples to oranges since Government is FAR FAR bigger today.

But let me ask you, was this something that should be done by the Federal Government?  Or the State Governments?  Or could Private Enterprise done the job?  I would only suggest that you look at the Railroads which few would disagree they were an amazing achievement.  And they were done not by the Federal Government but by private enterprise -- so, could not private industry done the job?  Would they eventually have done so?

My argument is that 'Big Government' is the problem not the solution -- perhaps you missed that or perhaps I didn't make that clear.  I'll go back and check and if I did not make that clear, I apologize for my lack of clarity.  If I did, well...

The Apollo Missions were a success by any measure.  You are correct - but I ask you this:  Was this also Big Government?  The Government of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"?  Sure it was Big, but not like today my friend.

However, I will admit that we did do that and it worked and turned out well in the end -- though it could be argued it was also a colossal waste of tax payers dollars and that the private sector could have done better at it...and you see, we'll never know will we?  Why not?  Becuase we have NOTHING to compare it to.  So it may well yet be proven that the private sector can do a better job -- again, we won't know unless the private sector gets involved at this level and Government doesn't stop them.

But one things for sure, the private sector would do it cheaper.

The National Parks?  I encourage everyone out there interested in this stuff to read:  The Really Inconvenient Truths; Seven Environmental Disasters Liberals Don't want you to know about.  Why?  Becuase the National Parks are talked about in length -- and the horrific management of them, the wildfires, the pollution, destruction etc caused by Federal and State mismanagement.

Does the Government really do this better then private industry?  The question, perhaps, should be:  should they?

Don't get me wrong, government is needed, absolutely.  Just not big huge massive government.

As for health care, only those on the left who refuse to hear evidence to the contrary would make that statement.  I for one lived in Canada for 20 years and witnessed first hand their failed health care system -- as well as used the VA system here which is also inferior to the private system.

As for Socialist, yes they are to one degree or another and yes they have been failing, but as much as you'd like to think it happens immediately, it doesn't.  It takes time.  In the case of Canada, they are now looking to move away from the Public health care option since it's broke and are now working for a private system.  amazing.  In the meantime the EU is now saying Capitalism is good and maybe we ought to give that a try in many cases.

But I digress.  What you advocate is throwing out the Constitution, ignoring it and it's intent and recreating this nation in some other fashion that has not and does not work.